RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I know its been a while since anyone replied to this thread. So hear goes ,the plane I'm most discusted with is the long east from nitroplanes. My X-wifes husband sent me one and dared me to fly it.See i was completely happy flying little park flyers .I was able to fly anything at the park next door any time i wanted .Then tis thing arrives at my door .O.k. I think so after diciding to go fuel over electric screwed me up thoroughly. I put this thing together I go nmaiden it . It scares the crap out of me it was anything but stable . I follow directions well even vauge ones it went together well I just didnt understand reflex and deflection on a pusher canard .'it fly funny some say 'anyway becuase of that plane wich looking back force me to be a better pilot only now I'm spending way more money to fly bigger louder oily airplanes .Wich by the way take up alot more space and its a big production to go fly and I'm all messed up and nobody loves me and the dog ran away and i'm buying another plane tommorow ,So what ever ytou do dont get one of these.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

It sounds like your x-wife's husband is trying to get even with you for putting her back on the market.

Yak:D

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

yea i got an earful about gettin him in this and yes it was pay back when he sent the long easy . and i got me a concrete dog in yard now I getting better slowly.im starting to get calls from girls again

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Anyone else had problems with Pacific Aeromodels? I bought their Tiger Moth 120 and have encountered several serious problems with it! The instructions are so skimpy,(even for an ARF), and almost unusable, especialy for the installation of the engine, e.g., the new Saito 125 in their combination deal has a different casting than the old 120 and requires you to file groves in the engine mount to accommodate it, course they still furnish the old instructions for the 120 which leaves you scratching your head. The latest thing I have encountered is their chincy little rigging couplers, they have some sort of a super fine thread that fits too loose in the clevis, and strip out when you try to tighten the jam nut.
There response to my questions has been to refer me back to their obsolete instruction book, I have not recieved a reply to the problem with the rigging couplers so have had to order replacements at my own expense.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

There is a thread on the PAM Tiger Moth. Everyone seems to love it even though they do complain about the turnbuckles. The mount has to be grooved for an OS engine also. I have flown a couple of them and they fly great!

Jim

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I know I'm getting on the tail end of this post but I've got a Solo Sport from H9 and it was only $79.....I thought it couldn't be that bad. The covering is that self paper kinda stuff with the graphics on it which means repairs are difficult to the covering. You can't iron it back on either! The gas tank isn't the right one but it'll work, they discontinued the tank the plane was designed for and threw in this loose fitting oblong thing. The wing was way off balance which required me to strip the covering and check things out...seems to much glue on the right side wing, easy fix and one recovered wing with ultracoat that matches the stock colors great. The plane is a lot heavier then my Alpha 40 and about the same size too. The wing tips are those plastic formed tips that distort when you try and shrink the covering.....my goof but the plastic tips are gone! The wheels are way to small for grass landings and take offs so bigger and better wheels were added. I know I'll have to recover the rest of the plane some time but until then I've got all the bugs worked out of it. I think for another $39 I could get the Alpha 40 with out the engine, radio and I would have been a head.....Self paper covering sucks!


I also read here early that the Global Fokker D-7 is a pain.....I've got a new one still in the box hope not everyone had trouble with this ARF.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I know you didn't start this thread just to offer a place to bash manufactures but what do you do when the Seller and the manufacture
ignore your e-mail.

The bottom line is make sure you read the Terms and Conditions befor you buy, I didn't and now I have a Plane I must redesign:(.

Photos
http://web.mac.com/rj30choptop/iWeb/site/Spitfire.html

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

You are correct that manufacturer bashing is not the idea here, and RCU wouldn't allow it for long if thats all we was doing here. The idea is simply to warn potential shoppers about which Planes we have not had such good luck with and why? The potential buyer can than make a more informed decision before they buy and find themselves over in the "best ARF I ever bought" thread instead of here telling about the plane they just bought with all kinds of troubles. Threads like this are what sets RCU apart from any one sided review you might read anywhere else. RCU is by far the best resource anywhere to get good valuable information if you can weed through and find the post with good substance and not just rants or bs. Great info in this thread that might convince someone to pass on a notorious problem Plane and go for a winner! So most are not here to bash, and most have done well in explaining why they did not enjoy a particular Plane, and why you should avoid it at all cost!

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

OK, Jim, thanks for the encouragement, I must say I was favorably impressed with the airframe and covering, but the problems soon overcame that, it is a shame they do not include changes/corrections, and there is no excuse for the poor quality rigging connectors that jepardise the model in flight. I am hoping I will encounter no more serious problems and am looking forward to flying it.

Sparky

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Jim, I have (finaly) finished my PAM Tiger Moth, the rh top wing panel is warped pretty bad and I am trying to pull it out with the rigging wires, wonder if you have any words of wisdom on the CG? The instructions say to ballance it 6 1/4" aft of the leading edge at the top wing center section, mine will require 3 lbs to ballance it there, does this seem reasonable to you?

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

To fix the warp, twist the wing a little past where you want it and then reshrink the covering with a heat gun. Hold it in position until it cools. Do the top of the warped wing panel and then the bottom, and repeat until it stays where you want it. That should take care of it.

I don't know about the CG, but it certainly shouldn't take 3 pounds of weight in the nose. Did you get that CG from Pacific? If not, give them a call. 626-618-0800

Jim

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Well, after reading all twelve pages of this thread from start to finish, I do have a couple of comments that may prove useful.

Lanier ARFs - the only Lanier ARF that I've actually seen is the Razor 3D. A good friend built and flew two of them. They were a bit of a pain to build (by his account, and he has a fair amount of kit experience as well as ARF assembly), but he really liked the way they flew. He lost the first one to a radio glitch, and then lost his second to a mid-air collision. He loved both of his Lanier Razor 3Ds, but decided they were jinxed and moved on.

With Tower Hobbies selling them a a discount right now, they're definitely worth looking at. The Lanier Razor 3D is a keeper.

Thunder Tiger ARFs - apparently Thunder Tiger ARFs have come a long way over the years since this thread was first started. It has been my pleasure to build and fly several Thunder Tiger ARFs over the last couple of years, and I have to say that Ace/Thunder Tiger is my favorite manufacturer.

My Tiger Stick .40 ARF was my very first ARF build. It was a well engineered ARF and the instructions were clear and easy to follow. The plane went together without a single variation from the manual. It has been a terrific flying plane and a lot of fun to learn aerobatics with. It's also been tough as nails and has survived far more bad landings than I ever had any right to expect from it.

My Thunder Tiger/Ace Hobby Staudacher S-300 is a wonderful example of a top quality ARF modelling a full scale aerobat. It is expertly constructed with top quality balsa and ply and it is beautifully covered with Ultracoat. The Staudacher was another pleasure to build, with the actual construction following the excellent manual to the letter.

My Thunder Tiger Imagine 50 ARF is still under construction. This is slightly more challenging as an ARF; the instructions are much more sparse than previous ARFs I've constructed and things like hinge slots aren't pre-cut, they have to be done manually. The Ultracote covering and the wood quality and construction on this ARF are amazingly high quality. I've never seen quality this good from any other manufacturer.

Phoenix Models - I have built and flown the Phoenix Seabee. I dumb thumbed mine after only a few flights. I was sufficiently impressed with the quality, value, and flying characteristics that I have purchased a second one. This is an amazingly good product for the $99.99 selling price.

I haven't yet tried an ARF from VMar or CMPro, so I can't excuse some of the other "usual suspects" on this thread. I have to confess that I have considered trying a Vmar ARF just to find out if they're really as bad as everybody says. It strikes me as funny that some of VMar's older ARFs have better reputations, while some of their newer ARFs are the ones who get the bad rap. Older designs like the Arrow and the Ramrod get good marks for quality, as do their trainers.

As previously stated, every manufacturer puts out the occassional turd. Thoroughly researching a particular ARF before buying will usually uncover whatever challenges it might pose before you can build it and fly it. Once you identify these challenges, you have to decide whether or not that particular ARF is worth whatever extra time and effort you'll need to put into it to get it flying. No ARF is completely beyond salvation, just as no particular ARF is perfect for every pilot, no matter how good the quality or design.

After all, it's all of these options and personal choices that contribute to making this hobby so interesting.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Thanks again Jim, the old "heat up the monokote" trick worked pretty good, I even warped a little negative in the oposite wing tip to give it some wash out!
The CG ballance point is given in their instruction book but so much of their other info is erroneous that I am not sure what to believe. I always thought rule of thumb on byplanes was the leading edge of the lower wing but 6 1/4" aft of the leading edge on the top wing puts it a couple inches aft of the lower wing leading edge.
I will try calling them, (they stopped answering my e-mail).

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Sparky71

Try this web site it has a Aircraft Center of Gravity Calculator, I bought a Zero Fighter that was missing the Manual so I used this site.

http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/cg_super_calc.htm


one more
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/cg_calc.htm

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Sparky71,
Any CG can be found from the smallest model to the fullscale C5A with the application at Geistware.com with a yardstick and 5 minutes of your time. And if you're doing a biplane, a trick to use the geistware app is just fudge and use the LE of the top or forward wing and the TE of the aft wing as the LE/TE of the "wing". Then geistware will tell you where the CG should be measured from the LE of the top wing. Simple and foolproof

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Thanks for the response Rocky, I tried the calculations but maybe not doing them correctly, my CG comes out 5" from the leading edge which is much worse than the 6 1/4" Pacific Models give in their instructions.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

hi just a word on a plane I am assembling now a Blackhorse Ultimate. Basicly I am unimpressed to say the least [&o] the covering is wrinlked, and wont shrink with either iron or heat gun,3 of 4 wings have twists in them you cant heat shrink out, the tail section of the fuse has an unacceptable amount of flex, the firewall near fell clean of wwith just the weight of motor (YS91FZ), the hardware is the flimsiest I have seen on any arf let alone a 90/120 sized plane, the wing servo mounts are very crooked etc etc, definately not worth the price. I am having serious doubts about flying it with the YS, may get a cheap magnum or something to fly it with, I sure as hell dont fell comfortable with what I have seen so far, and yes, I have reglued everything I could reach. never going to buy a blackhorse model again [:'(]

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

is this ARF made in China? :(

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

No its made in viet nam, and a real dissappoitment [sm=cry_smile.gif][sm=cry_smile.gif] I've had 2 v-mar models which while being lightly built did actaully stay together for yrs, even though overpowered lol, they also flew quite well. I have been building and flying for near 15 years, and this kit is the worst I have seen [:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][&o]

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Oh, Lord. Now you went and did it! It's not a "kit" and you assemble it not build it. What are you trying to do, get us in trouble with the anti-ARF bunch? Geez man.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

geeeez, It was supposed tyo be an arf but with the time I have put in trying to fix this picece of junk, I would have been better of scratch building a new one. This kit is a perfect verification for the anti arf crowds comments on arf's not being built right etc, right now I am having serious doubts as to whether I will even try to finish it or to junk it, seems like every time I even begin to do something on it I find more to fix or redo on it, this manufacturer obviously has no idea of what the concept of glue is for or how to use it. You say we are just supposed to assemble it? hmmm a cox .049 would have torn this plane apart in the air, I sure as %*&% aint going to fly it with the YS91, got too much respect for the motor to put it into an airframe that I dont trust, will get a cheap and nasty 61 and put in it if I even bother to finish it. A hobby is supposed to be a pleasurable pastime? not with this piece of junk [:@][:'(] I really regret buying this one :([:'(]:([&o][&o][&o][&o]

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Not saying where I bought it cause it's avail from many places. But after 20 + years of building and flying this one has to be the absolute worst flying, wrong looking (canopy) plane I have ever flown. Assembly was easy and quick as most arfs are, but my god, did it suck in the air. The plane has the WORST snap and recovery habbits of any plane I have flown large or small, arf or kit built. The quality of construction was nice as was the apearance of the finished plane. If you were building a "one-off" design. It actually looked cool. I tried everything to fix the nasty habbits until I decided one day to strip it of all the gear and electronics and stomp it into a nice neat pile and insert into the trash bag! My second worst flyer and biggest let down was the Sig Extra 300XS. The purple pain in my *****! Other than that out of the 60 or so plus arfs I've assembled and flown from just about every mfgr, Most fly to a moderate to above average and in many cases awsome level.

Here it is...The worst flying extra in the world! IMO

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I guess you all forgot about the GiantScalePlanes models, The company is still out there and selling crud (http://www.giantscaleplanes.com/) and don't get me started on the owner. The only person I know who can wreck 2 trailers and flip you off as he drives away without stoping.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

FINALLY !!! Someone said something good about Thunder Tiger, I'm having some eye trouble, and want something that flys "low and slow" and decided on the TT Lazy Tiger Cub, any experiance with this little stubby feller? I'm in process of putting it together, "improving" things as I find problems and am pretty happy with most of it. I've built more planes from sticks since I started in 1972, but I really like the ARF concept, things like my TT.46 pro powered Rascal are getting to be a little to quick for me so the gotta slow down, if you have any info on the Lazy Tiger Cub I'd sure like to hear it.
Thanks, Dan


3 most wothless things 1) runway behind you 2) air above you 3) gas you left on the ground

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I got in recently and put together and flown a CMP Giles 202 .50 version 2.

This is an excellent plane especially considering the price... $89.00+ shipping.

CF pushrods, aluminum pull-pull crank, pre-cut pin control surface joints, sheeted wings and fuse with a "formed" tail, CF landing gear, decent hardware ( except for tail wheel ), covered servo wells, fiberglass wheel pants and cowl. gel coat over pre-applied decals over "faded" paint/coloring scheme.

6 hours for assembly. The only hardware I changed was the tail wheel gear, which was junk.

The plane is an excellent flyer though the thrust line as provided may need a tweak.

I have several other CMP planes. Some may need more work than others ( e.g. the Hellcat ) but thus far no major problems that a little common sense and precaution could take care of.


Likewise a friend purchased a CMP Cessna 1.40, which is the best Cessna ARF I've ever seen in terms of ARF detailing. Likewise there is a great thread on the .50 version of this plane here where people are quite pleased with it. He also has a 1.40 CMP P-40.


My friends and I are thus far in that minority... at least with these stated models, but we have not tried their scale WWI planes.