RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I have a whole box full of chineeze hardware.

one metal clevis broke the first time I opened it.

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

CHAD I HAVE THE SAME PLANE WITH A G-62 DID NOT HAVE TO ADD ANYTHING TO IT TO GET THE GC ONLY THING I DID WAS GO WITH A 6VOLT
24OO BATTERY PACK I'M LIKE YOU ON THE HARDWARE COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER MY HOBBY SHOP HAD IT SHIPED TO THE BUS STATION AND I PICKED IT UP $700.00 TOTAL (THE WHEELS THAT COME WITH THE KIT ARE CRAP)

BOBBY

RE: AVOID THESE ARF's AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

In the last five years, I have bought and assembled about 15 ARFs. The worst by far is by ESM, the Ki-84. Just about all the hardware is worthless. There are collars where the little allen screw strips out pretty much immediately. Ugly control horns, lousy tail gear, missing hardware, and the plane weighs a ton. There are many other wrong things, but I mention the ones on the top of my head as I vent right now. I have had CMP, Model Tech, Black Horse, Phoenix, Great Planes, Hangar 9, Aeroworks, and Pilot. All are better than ESM. THe plane will look ok in the end as I work my way through the issues. It will probably fly ok too. Still, I won't buy another ESM nor recommend it to club mates. Jon

ARFs
 

In my opinion, there aren't many arfs out there with any quality. I personally would like to vent about SIG. Just about every arf they have produced has been discontinued. The current ones look great out of the box, but are so poorly assembled (some of it is by design, but mostly the Chinese are ruining there reputation) they literally fall apart. They will not take any abuse at all. Also, once you buy one, you can just about forget getting replacement parts. They are ALWAYS on backorder, and they never have any idea when they will get them. If they do tell you when they are expected, you can count on that date getting pushed 2 or three times. And their customer service sucks! I personally am not ever going to buy any more arf's from SIG. If the market doesn't turn around and people start building kits again, I don't see them lasting too much longer.

Interesting. Is this the replacement series for the venerable 4*40, 4*60, etc? I was wondering how they were. That is sad, thanks foir sharing. Which one did you try?

Kit builders always expound upon the iminent death of ARF's... but most of us simply don't have the available time to invest in a kit, even if it means trashing multiple ARF's and absorbing the expense.

So ARF companies will continue to churn out units and ditch the replacement parts availablity to cut costs... I'm sure Tower and Horizon would like nothing more than to end having to stock replacement parts... ugh.

Either you repair the ARF yourself after an accident, or you buy another airframe... much like what has happened with the Heli crowd.

If you thing we have it bad with parts for ARF's, they have it worst.

My god give it a break already.I built too many kits to count since 1971.the arfs back in 2004 were mostly crap.kits are not readily available and I sincerely doubt 3 fourths of my club could barely build a balasa plane.you get what you put in.I have several 3dh planes the quality is ex traordinarily good.thesame can be said of extreme flight.too many pilots today just want to fly and thats why nitro and a bunch of those brands prosper.aeroworks makes good quality as does top flight.but you will pay for it.I do both I built a sig spacewalker and it was a very very good kit.I agree arfs arent always good but dont lump them together.there is enough out there you can do what you want.the hobby is very diversified and its all good.

My god give it a break already.I built too many kits to count since 1971.the arfs back in 2004 were mostly crap.kits are not readily available and I sincerely doubt 3 fourths of my club could barely build a balasa plane.you get what you put in.I have several 3dh planes the quality is ex traordinarily good.thesame can be said of extreme flight.too many pilots today just want to fly and thats why nitro and a bunch of those brands prosper.aeroworks makes good quality as does top flight.but you will pay for it.I do both I built a sig spacewalker and it was a very very good kit.I agree arfs arent always good but dont lump them together.there is enough out there you can do what you want.the hobby is very diversified and its all good.

Had several of their earlier ones and got rid of them NIB. However, had 4 star120 and wing just snapped in level flight. Never put it under sever load. Wood was really soft and joints barely made contact with a lot of spars. (They offered to replace it, (didn't have any in stock though, and didn't want it) but made a deal for two kits instead, however, what about when you damage an engine and radio gear. They don't replace that.) Have red kadet senior ARF. Entire firewall fell out with first very light nose wheel first landing. Would have never withstood a beginners landings. And a lot of the sticks broke loose over time toward the back. Have heard a lot of complaints about the earlier arfs that were discontinued. They recalled the wings on the sukhoi they had for bad wood. Anyway, had brown out or something with DSM2 spectrum on kadet on 4th of July and damaged wing. They said they were on order but had no idea when they would get them. Then they said August, then Sept., now November. I don't think they ever do any trips to their supplier to check quality control. As I mentioned, don't think they will be around much longer. My family lives near there and I occasionally attend their annual fun fly. Attendance has shrunk to nearly nothing but locals. When Hazel ran it, it was an enormous turn out. (I am sure fuel prices have something to do with it also though)

I would like to defend the Sig arfs I purchased the 4* 64 six weeks ago and have about 2hrs flite time on it now. I t is a great flying ARF and I like all the improvements over the old 4* kits the covering job is fantastic and the supplied hardware is ok. and honestly I have never seen a soft nose wheel first landing.

Don't know anything about their latest 4 stars. And never said it was a "first landing". Was doing the musical chair contest and had to do a touch and go. was floating about 6" off ground and kind of lightly went to force it to touch the ground and go, where the nose wheel or all wheels touched and the firewall pulled out from top. Literally nothing but the 3/32 balsa and two small soft balsa triangle supports on the side holding the firewall in. Very light built. All I was saying is the first bounce from a beginner landing and they would be repairing. I learned on a kadet junior many many years ago and had a lot of hard landings. I built it, and would bend the nose gear under very often. would just grab ahold of it and bend it back forward and go again. Don't think the arf's would take much of that even if the firewall hadn't broke loose the first time.

KMP. (ARF = All Ready to Fix.) I have a T-28, rev.2, cosmetically beautiful airplane, but poorly engineered, missing parts and lousy instructions. The wing attachment required total re-build because guy's wings were falling off on the first flight. The retract gear doors required complete redesign to function. Mine is still not ready to fly. I could've built the kit by now for half the money and had a better plane. I've heard that the T-28 is no longer available at KMP, so I'm guessing the customer complaints were off the chart.

Well you spend your money and you take your pick. There are both decent and poor quality ARFs out there to choose from, but if you really wish to control quality then you must strip and go through your entire ARF airframe, or build new.

Bob

Although, I would not state avoid it at all cost, but I would state be prepared to get sorry build quality and that is Precision Hobby Products Edge 540T 30cc. I caught this plane on one of their sales is why I purchased it. If you buy one go over it from top to bottom and be prepared to re-build much of the plane. It was by far the worst ARF I have purchased in this cost range.

I do not by CMP, NitroPlanes, or any of the junker ARFs and this plane has a reasonable cost associated with it, so you do expect some quality. I should of just spent the extra hundred dollars for an EF, EG, etc. because I wound up spending it anyway.

Hardware was pure junk, not as advertised at all, absolutely nothing fit, tank was from some small nitro plane and not even correct, wing and elevator tubes slop was massive, hinges all came out by just pulling on them, little to no glue anywhere, there were three sets of hinge holes in the wings, wing tube POC and had to be replaced, was supposed to be a QB and that was another false statement, even the canopy had to be cut and attached, etc. This thing was a total mess. The only thing nice was the covering.

I put a lot of time in the plane and finally got her going. Here is the irony - it is one of the best flying planes of my entire fleet and I believe a quality design that could have been a top seller. I fly this plane about every outing. Looking back this plane should have not cost more than 100 - 150 dollars.

On a side note, I think my bigger issue is that dealers should let us know that the planes are crap and then we can decide and not have any expectations. In other words, call it like it is. Of course we know that honesty is a prized position when it comes to an ARF dealer. This does not fit all dealers, however it does fit a large number of ARF dealers out there. Many say that GH will ship planes out and they are not even the correct color when they arrive...amazing!

Such a shame as it looks like drunks built the PHP 30cc Edge, because this plane could have been a winner and could have competed with some much higher end planes hands down. The really sad thing is that I would have bought more planes from PHP, but they lost me as a customer because of this type of crap.

Can you imagine how much money dealers lose? I plan to buy at least two more planes and PHP is mostly black marked for now unless they want to sell off one of their 30cc planes for 150 then I would consider it if I had a few weeks to re-build it and nothing else to do with my time.

OTOH some of my better ARFs are GP, H9, AW (older model), and of course EF - EF being a top contender and a well built airframe as well as a top notch flyer.

4Star ARFs
 

I bought my 4Star ARF in 2006 and it's still a joy to fly. It was my 2nd plane. When I've got nothing else to fly or the weather is iffy or I just want to have some low-stress fun......I fly my 4 Star 60. I've re-covered it 3 times.

I don't understand your comment: "...and honestly I have never seen a soft nose wheel first landing". The 4 Star doesn't have a nose wheel :confused: . It's a taildragger.

BTW - I'd like to defend ESM. My ESM F8F Bearcat is a solid smooth-flying airplane. When I look at it I get a warm fuzzy feeling. :cool: Can't wait to buy the ESM FW-190 Dora 9.

Stay away from anything made by FEJ
Their engineering is archaic, inadequate, sub-standard, and deeply flawed. Their customer service is non-existent. Their jets crash due to poor materials and building. They lie about delivery times (promising 8 weeks that always becomes a year or more), take the customer's money and fail to return it when requested.

OMG, Forget I said anything. "What part of kadet senior red ARF did you not understand?" I didn't say it was a four star, and when I say soft nose wheel first, do you have any understanding how slow the kadet senior will fly? (real slow, especially with a light headwind) Just forget it, and go buy one if they ever get it back in stock!

removed off-topic response

I have been very happy with my PAU aka. BME arfs. Excellent quality and include all hardware. They also have awesome customer support if you have questions, though highly unlikely with their detailed manuals with pictures. Stay away from CMP, they are junk.

Interesting to see someone else had issues with Aeroworks. I bought an Aeroworks 30cc Extra 300 and had a number of quality issues. Keep in mind that many build issues can be expected and experienced modelers work around them. But the fact remains -- "Why should we have to!" In my case there were missing parts, incorrect parts, incorrect or misleading instructions. Although they responded to my findings (which were more of a critique than complaints) they reminded me that experienced modelers find ways around these issues. Thanks for that. I've probably built more models than anyone of their office staff. For example, using their recommended dual, rear mounted elevator servos I found, and they confirmed, that they needed to be shimmed to avoid interference with each other. A simple build-note would have alerted the builder to that fact who could then attempt to locate slightly shorter servos. This airplane had more covering wrinkles than any ARF I've ever built including many that cost much less. I'm fully aware of the conditions that cause this and fully capable of taking care of the problem. This was merely a "statement" -- not a condemnation of the product. It isn't always about the product either, it is sometimes about "attitude" toward the customer.

I have owned 3 Aero-works arfs and the Yak 100 cc 54 is a good and well built plane but the plane is 7 years old and still holding up . The lastest plane I bought from them the extra 260 30 cc freestyle is a great looking plane but the covering is junk and wont stay tight the landing gear area needs beefed up the lite ply and balsa separates and on and on I could go. Their customer service is not good ordered a spare canopy and it was the wrong shade of yellow and didn't match the the rest of the plane. They said not much we can do about basically and charged me 54 bucks not counting shipping. The plane is way overpriced at 550 plus shipping for a 30 cc plane is crazy.The size is really great as far as a 30 cc plane is concerned very big but there are numerous other 30 cc birds coming out for a lot less money and better quality and customer service. I wont buy another Aero-works not that they care. I think the expensive big new facility in Co. has really made them have to make a lot of profit.

I have built a few ARFs over the past 7 years. Many of them required a few minor changes to the supplied hardware. The exceptions are Sig, H9, and Great Planes.

I did have an issue with the Hangar 9 Sundowner 36, it is a beautiful plane and flies great, but the landing gear is set way too far aft to taxi on grass. I had to carry the plane to the takeoff spot and give it a nudge at WOT for takeoff. Landing was a guaranteed flip-over. It eventually got the landing gear ripped out. When I went to glue it back, there was no structure to glue it to. I had to cut out the middle-lower fuselage, added some scratch-built structure using wood blocks and some pink foam. I built the landing gear with a forward tilt. Now, it taxies on the grass and flies perfect.

Another ARF is the Great Planes Reactor 46, the covering won't stay on. I coated the wood with Balsarite and it is still iffy. The covering is actually de-laminating in some areas, the color layer is separating from the clear plastic. Definitely not Monocote as advertised. To their credit, Great Planes discontinued it. But that is too bad, the structure of the Reactor is wonderful. It just needed better covering.

I built a CMPro Zero 50 with the fiberglass fuse, beautiful looking. But it was so tail heavy that even after adding 1.5 pounds of weight to the nose, it was still barely stable and landed like a brick. I retired it. At least it was cheap and I didn't lose much money on it.

Finally, I just lost a World Models Tempest (46-size). I really can't see how the manufacturer can be honest by selling this disaster of a plane. It was also expensive. I thought that being a reputable company with a hefty price tag meant the plane will be good. It looked nice, but the decals were not opaque, the retracts were positioned too far aft and it would nose-over on the grass. I had to rebuild the retract mounting structure in the wing to tilt them forward just so that it would taxi. The supplied spinner cone looked nice, but would not stay on with the provided adapter nut and bolt. I replaced them with quality parts. Finally, when all worked well, our club expert flew it for a couple of minutes and it snapped and spiralled into the ground. In a way, I was happy to get rid of it, but it cost me a carburator for the OS 70 FS. I'll never buy another World Models ARF.

I have to reply to the person who said he wouldn't buy an aeroworks ARF. I have built 4 of their planes and the hardware, quality and flight characteristics were excellent! I HIGHLY recommend AEROWORKS!

I would not say to avoid these ARFs, Some of them like Aeroworks fly fantastic. Now with that said I was on the 3D flight line at Joe Nall in 2011 waiting my set to fly and watched a brand new Aeroworks 35% Edge540 make its maiden flight in front of God, Aeroworks, and everyone else on the flight line. Two minutes into the flight on approximately 1/3 throttle, from left to right knife edge pass the low wing explodes into a thousand pieces and the airplane ultimately oggers in. Needless to say this guy was not a happy camper and ready to make a seen. Now Aeroworks did cowboy up and replaced his ARF, however this was not the place to make a customer service seen if you know what I am talking about. I now also own a 35% Aeroworks Edge 540 sitting in my pool table room with part of a missing wing that a flying buddy received as a prize in 2012, it was a brand new kit he assembled and flew 3 flights before it shed the better portion of a wing half. He did manage to get it back on the ground without destroying it and gave it to me.

There are many, many cases of this same thing happening now and it appears to point to a shear web issue. So again, going though your ARFs up front saves airplanes, engines, servos, and... Unfortunately stripping the airframe down to the bones is the only real way to do it. Just one man's experience...

Bob

Anything from Nitro Models, Inc....
XHeli, Nitro Planes, HobbyPartz, etc....

And, stay far far away from Bannanar Hobbies!
Fee-Fi-Fo-Nanner.....Bannaner.....