Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

I have both the Magic and Magic Extra:eek:. Both are powered with TT-46 PRO engines and swing APC 11"x4" props. I originally hated the Magic but after adding 60# mono-filament flying wires to the tail and moving the CG way back it is my favorite plane:D. It hovers, torque rolls, wild upright flat spins at idle and great blenders. It even knife-edges well if I keep pressure on the ailerons.
The Magic Extra has the same wing in the plan view however the airfoil is symmetrical rather then the semi-symmetrical as found on the Magic. The Extra also has a slightly longer fuselage. The Extra hovers and torque rolls easiest of the two planes. It will knife edge loop very well with some coupling.
I can’t get the Extra to flat spin upright or inverted no matter how slow I sneak the opposite aileron in for either direction of the spin[&o]. Blenders are also out. I even have the CG at 5” back from the LE and have added 1” to the elevators and rudder (huge with tail flying wires). The plane will spin but the nose stays down and kicks out with any touch of aileron to try to flatten. I am beginning to think the wing is too stable because it will rock very little even with my wild large elevators[sm=bananahead.gif]. It will not even kick out of tight loops.
Both planes are a blast. I am going to temporary tape triangular stock to the first 6” of the leading wing edge at the fuse to try to get a stall. If this fails, then the Magic is my favorite. Any ideas[sm=drowning.gif]?

RE: Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

I guess I missed the question... :eek: You want to stall the airplane? Have you tried a Profile? It will fly better than both of these without mods.

RE: Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

I have had most of the Morris profile planes and all did the maneuvers well including climbing flat spins:eek:. I think you are missing that there is just something too stable about this Extra. I have never had a fun-fly plane I couldn't flat spin before. This one is weird[X(]. Just to stable.

RE: Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

I've just assembled a Magic. It has a Saito 45 with a 12 x 4 in it and it balanced right where they said to balance it, 2 5/8 in back from the LE.

I want the wildest plane I can get.

First, why the monofilament on the tail?

Second, how far back should I move the CG?

I have gyros, have you tried to use a gyro on the elevator with REALLY rearward cg?

RE: Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

Hi Rich...The CG on my standard Magic is at 4-7/8" behind the leading edge and has been at 5" which gets wild[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]. This allows for some wild snap rolls and tumbles[sm=bananahead.gif]. The manufacturer of the Magic made a large lightning hole at the base of the vertical fin. This hole was not a good idea for me because the whole vertical tail assembly is then weakened. This amounts to the vertical fin being held to the plane with only 2 pieces of balsa about 3/16" square. Mine snapped on the first flight and was being held on by the covering when I landed[sm=surprised.gif]. I added the mono-filament flying wires as the fix. My flying wires wrap 360 degrees around the tail assembly and is fastened to the underside of the fuselage at the tail skid plastic. Now I can give full rudder at high speed and nothing snaps off:D. I connected the mono-filament with miniature electrical eyelets and #2-56 screws. No gyros needed as this little plane is very stable in a hover.

RE: Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

They must have figured out that the hole was a problem, my vertical fin is soild wood. :D

My plane is balanced about 1/4 inch forward of where you have yours balanced at, I'll test fly it where it is, then work it back.

RE: Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

I test flew my Magic yesterday. I'm going to move the CG back to 4 7/8 inches to see how that is, the way it is now it'll loop in about 10 feet, but I want it wilder than that. I mixed in about a 1/2" of flap with the up elevator, but it didn't seem to matter much, do you mix flap/elevator?

RE: Magic compared to Magic Extra
 

Hi Rich...I set my Magic up rather wild on high rates[sm=bananahead.gif]. For hovering,torque rolls,loops and rolling harriers, I have elevator-flap mixing enabled using a switch. At high rate the elevator travels 1-7/8" UP with ailerons moving 1-1/2" DOWN and vise-versa. For tumbling and spins I switch the mixing off because the mix actually dampens the tumbles. I also have flap trim assigned to a rotary switch channel 7. I turn off all mixing and RAISE the ailerons 1/2" for elevators and harriers. Sounds backwards but it fools the wing and causes high lift at slow speeds. If you try lowering the flaps, do it high as you will get a sinking surprise as with most short fuselage fun-flys[X(]. I forgot where the low rate switch is because high rates are too much fun with this plane:D.