Our local field is in jepardy!
 

I figured this board was as good as any to post this. Our local field is owned by the University of Virginia and we rent it from them. Our club has been residing there for over 35 years and before that it was an airfield for manned airplanes. My great uncle, who was a fighter pilot in WW2 and who died in that same war, learned to fly at this airfield in the '30s.(He flew a P-38) But there is a high end houseing development nearby that has been around for about 7 or 8 years now that houses some people that complain a lot to UVA about the noise. We are easily within the sound regulations but to them it is still annoying noise. Recently they have been turning up the heat on UVA and now it looks like our field might be in jepardy. Right now we have these current restrictions: No glow powered flying: weekdays after 6PM and weekends after 3PM.[:@] OUCH! Now we could go all electric and please all the complainers but we are trying to keep that as the LAST resort. But that might be the end result and that will kill much of our membership.
Now this kind of thing brings up a lot of questions but two I thought of are as follows.
First of all: Does the law determine where it is OK to fly glow powered planes?
Secondly: Are electrics the 'future of our RC airplane hobby'.?

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

The law does not, but whiny, controlling, nagging idiots who complain to police and politicians do

And NO , electric flight is not the future of our hobby.
If electric was the only option, I would be out of this hobby quicker than S*** through a goose.

DP

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

The law does not determine that in most places, but in some it does. However, you have a different problem. Your field is owned by someone else and they DO decide what happens on their property. If they are bothered enough by the neighbors, they very well may get tired of it and decide that it isn't worth the bother.

Does the University have an Aviation Science department? If it does, they may be worth talking to to see if they will help you with the problem and their administration. Has anyone visited the University to try and discuss the issue? It might just be worth the time. You will be able to explain your position so they can see both sides. Whatever you do, keep a cool head and be the kind of person that they WANT to deal with instead of the constant complainers.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

no offense, but that is a pretty narrow minded attitude. there are plenty of electric only fields, whereas I have never heard of a IC only field. Electrics are in their infancy, and they already can outperfom glow. and besides, how much have glow engines change in the last 50 years or so, whereas electrics have gone through revolutions in only a couple years. (nicads with a brushed motor compared to lipos with brushless outrunners...)

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

If I could only fly electrics, I would probably get out of the hobby also. I absolutely prefer IC over electric although I own a couple electrics.
To me it would be like having to give up my VMax but I could still ride those electric scooter thingies. I wouldnt even want to think of how much a brushless motor/batt combo would cost that would enable me to still go 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds.
I had a lot of electrics and finally decided it wasnt worth spending an entire day of charging all the packs to get some 20 minutes total of flight time. Got rid of most of em. Kept my Zagi, Wingo, and my brushless Slow Stick. Every thing else is IC.
Plus I love the noise and the smell.:D
Sometimes half a loaf is NOT better than none.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

You guys sound like the members of our club. Most fly nitro with a few electrics and a few are all electric. But many would rather leave than be restricted to just electric while others would be more than willing to switch to all electric if it meant being able to keep our field and still hang out. I am one of the latter. If we have a choice to fly only electrics or nothing at all I will be ebaying a lot of nitro stuff. I would probobly keep one plane/engine (I can still fly nitro in a few locations that are good enough to at least be able to hear that beautifull sound of my 4-stroke) but would be ready to make the transition and continue to enjoy the field that has been my second home for the last 7 years.

Bayou Talker, UVA's engineering department uses the old hangar and sometimes the field to test fly airplane and blimp projects but they use all electric stuff. Basically we pay UVA $1 a year and keep the field mowed and in good condition and they let us have our club. We have direct communication with someone at UVA and so they hear both sides but much too often the squeaky wheel gets the greece.:eek:

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Here's a few thoughts.

You've probably already done this, but if not, get help from the AMA.

Identify and deal with the people who have the loudest planes. Being within the regulations may not be enough.

Newer houses close to a university probably mean many of them owned by families. Offer a special program to the people in the neighborhood to help their kids learn to fly. Getting some of them on your side could go a long way to shut up the complainers.

Got any UVA alumni, or students, in the club? Both of these groups usually have a bit more clout than people with no connection. Have some of them talk to the university, and provide stats to the university about alumni and student involvement. Offer special programs to university students to increase involvement.

Get an attorney to research local and state grandfather policy in these cases. It's possible that the field has been in use for aviation for so long that the UVA could just tell these people to stop whining. The field was there before they bought their houses, an attorney could help you with a legal argument against them.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Inverticle,
Get the AMA involved ASAP. They have the expertise to help you out. Their web site or magazine will give you the contact info need. Don't delay, cause once its gone, it ain't ever comin back.
Also, invite everyone, especially the kids from the housing complex to your field for an "open house". Serve BBQ, have shade and chairs for the ladies, have a bunch of trainers and buddy boxes set up, and get those Dad's and kids flying. Pretty soon they'll be on your side.
I'd bet 5 bucks the people complaining are the type that complain to get attention and feel like they are "in power". More than likely, if they have a home owner association, its the junior Nazi's in the little power trip that are out to get you. Good Luck. 3wire

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

One thing Piper_Chuck, the land is owned by the University but is in the country, not near school grounds. And the development is a very high end country club. One of the complaining couples live in a newer house on the 16th hole of the country clubs golf course which is pretty close to our field. They actually came over to our field the other day and got into a 'heated discussion' with us say that if we can't work something out than "you know what's going to happen." I tried my best to diffuse the situation but they left a little hot. So you've got the complainers talking to us AND UVA. The whole picnic type idea won't fly with these people. They don't care, they just want the "annoying noise" to stop all together.[:o][&o]

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

It's obvious you can't deal with the in-your-face couple. However, if you can get others in the neighborhood on your side, the UVA may decide to ignore the few squeeky wheels.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Just a suggestion that "may" help. See if its any kind of noise or just higher noise levels that is the main concern. If its any kind of noise then you have a problem. If its just the higher high pitched noises then maybe going to 4 strokes will solve the problem. The engines are twice the price of 2 strokes but cheaper than converting to a comparable performance electric. [:o]

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

The louder noises are definitely worse but it seems to just be any noise that is consistant is annoying to them. A few of the members have thought about going just 4-strokes and electrics and this may solve the problem. But this still may be too much noise and will still piss off a lot of our members. But at this point, it's not our members we need to but concerned about but the country club members.[:o]

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Its hard to win in a situation like that. Unfortunetly you may be needing to look for a new field[:o]

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Sounds like its time to find a new field. The little rent you pay is not worth the hassel to the University. Go electric only for now and hope that helps buy you a extra year or two. This is happening all over. Electrics are the future. They outperform glow and the cost is comming down fast. The next big push will be the 46glow size electric packages.

Good luck and keep those electrons flowing.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Iverticle, we are on a small island off the coast of BC, Canada and fly out of a cow pasture on a 300 acre farm. We'e on private property withe the permission of the land owner and there are only 5 fliers. What withthe weather conspiring against us and veryone's work schedules we are not at the fild very often or for that long. But we had one individual who lives in the area raise an issue with the property owner. I think this whiner would even complain about kite flying. We were forced into a reduced flying schedule. Sound like you are already pretty restricted but would giving the whiners Sundays free or even a 4 or 5pm shut down time keep the peace? Otherwise some of the other ideas offered about getting some of the kids involved(and on your side) might help. I wish you guys good luck , this kind of thing is pretty "annoying".

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

I agree! Fortunately, when the complainers came, they saw the electrics fly and loved them. Mainly for their quiet opperation. I know they would be all for the idea of an all electric field. The problems is, a good portion of ourt members would not. What frustrates me, though, is that I think this might be the only way to save the field. And I am afraid it is the stupborness of our members that will be end us as a club. I think a lot of the feel that all electric isn't worth it. But I don't feel they should decide that for those of us who are willing to do anything to keep our field. One of our members refered to our field as our own private park. And if I can only fly electrics in that park then I am willing to do it.
The board of directors for our club is holding a meeting tonight and members are welcome. I am going. Hopefully we will have some say in things. I am affraid if we wait for UVA to make a decision we won't like the outcome. But if we at least offer a BIG compromise on our part they would be more willing to let us stay.[:o][:o][:o]

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

I only fly GS Gasoline powered airplanes. The small stuff does nothing for me. If I had to power my 35%+ plane with electrons I would be spending as much as I do on one of my Harley's. No offense meant, it just don't float my boat. Besides - who has ever heard of a silent airplane ??? It just don't work.

I do have a foamy - it is a blast to fly, but it is something to fill in for when I can't fly the big planes.

DP

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Without getting into a heated discussion on whether which is better, fuel or electrons, where are you getting that electric outperforms glow? Economically, glow wins on 46 size and up. Show me a brushless system for $109 that beats an OS .46. Aint one on the planet.
I have roughly 30 electric planes of which some are brushless. But no way am I gonna spend 200 on the motor, 100 on the esc and 100's if I want a few lipoly packs just so I can fly a 40'ish sized plane electric. Plus, which sounds better on a stearman bi-plane?
The whoosh of an apc prop on an axi motor or the thud thud sound of a Saito or YS 4-stroker? And if you crash, what would you rather spend to replace?
Luckily, the two clubs I belong to are out in the country. One is on farmland and the other, at the end of a lane. Matter of fact, the people who just built a house there like the airplanes.

Dave...

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

I'm really lucky. My neighbor owns a huge corn field behind my house. He is not growing corn this year and the grass is about waist high. It's a great place for beginners to learn. If and when they crash, the tall grass keeps from destroying thier plane. Also, there is another field about a half mile wide by about a mile long at the end of the road where I live. The owners don't mind for us flying there. It's beautiful, surrounded by the Appalachian Mountains. We only have one neighbor that complains every once in a while, but all the other neighbors love to watch us fly. It's really fun when we have 3 or 4 guys dog-fighting with our Strykers. Most of us fly electrics. There is one guy that flies nitros, but our Strykers gives most of his planes a run for his money. I'll post a pic of the fields where we fly soon.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Good luck keeping your flying site. I visited there once and really liked the place. Charlottesville like any university town is loaded with bunny hugging,tree loving,whinning liberals. They don't even want the state to build a Hyw 29 bypass to help with the traffic because it will upset some endangered bug or frog. I would invite you to fly with us but it is in Crew, a long way for you. There is a club on Hyw 53 in Palmyra that is near you. I wish you luck. It seems that every week you hear about clubs losing flying sites. The club in Gretna,Va lost thiers this year.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

It sounds like you pretty well like Electrics anyway, which is great, but you really can't expect other Members who do not care to fly electric to give up their style of Plane. That would be like making someone who has built and flown Scale Planes all his /her lfe, and tell them that they can now only fly 3D type Planes to belong to the Club. Or telling a guy who Fly's gliders only that he has to Fly R/C Gas Planes now. What about the guy who builds the Free Flight or Rubber Power Planes all his life? Maybe the neighbors would worry that one of those would just wander in their yard. Is the whole Club just going to put all there Nitro Planes out to the curve or on ebay or RCU Market? What if the neighbor complains about those Electric 3D type Planes looking dangerous when they fly? My point is that everyone brings there favorite type of Plane to our Club Field, and what might be my favorite, might not be there favorite. Some people like the ARFS, and some like the Kits, and some like both, and some like none, and some like all. Everyone has there own taste in this hobby, and dictating to them what they can and cannot have is going to be the ruination of your club. Just all of you put your heads together as Club Members, and go find another place to fly that will satisfy the whole membership, and not just you, and a few others. Then after you find your new Club Field, go find someone who is willing to go take a big pooh on the steps of that house so close to your old Club.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Inverticle

About a month and a half ago in the Washington Post was an article about SuperFund sites. I told my club about this as we should start looking for a new site just in case the county connector comes through. Interesting that in this months AMA is a complete article about SUperFund sites.

Here is one in your area, I don't know the status but you can check online

http://cfpub.epa.gov/supercpad/cursi...cfm?id=0305627

Here is the link to check other areas

http://cfpub.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/srchsites.cfm

Good Luck
Lee

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Night flight would be good. Everything would glow, including the pilots. Call your club the love cannal group.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Have you guys considered offering the school a fair sum of cash in return for a lease? also, it's probably just me but if I had someone show up at our field and start a ruckus they would find out about posting bail and showing for court on assault and harassment charges. Just because they do not like the planes flying does not mean they get their way about it. I don't like booming car radios that drowned out my TV but there is not a dam thing I can do about it. And if I were to try...I'd end down to the jail house I'm sure.
Our club had to move a while back and our new field is costing us $2500.00 a year. So I understand what a pain in the a** this situation can be. I'd suggest you try to find a field close by and get yourself a lease for the express purpose of flying RC aircraft and get AMA sanctioning. It would take an act of GOD to move us now. You could have the same thing if you work at it.

Miloh.

RE: Our local field is in jepardy!
 

Well, we had a meeting tonight and this is the gist of it. We are restricting ourselves, with the request of UVA, to 12-6 on weekdays and 12-5 on weekends. OK but not great. Especially for those who like to fly after work. The UVA person is going to the complainers with this restriction and we should know by next week if this takes care of the issue (at least temporarily). In the mean time we are going to be aggressively looking for a new field. We don't feel that anything will please these people in the long run. Supposedly one of the complaints was of a glider supposedly flying above someones house and they were affraid it might have a camera in it takeing pictures of them.:eek::) At the end of the meeting I talked to one of the guys who flies all electrics and he agreed that if the club goes else where that we would consider staying and haveing an all electric field. It would hopefully still be appart of the original club but just for electrics. This is something we also discussed in the meeting. A comment this guy made was that it was this kind of thing that pushed him to sell all of his nitro stuff and go all electric. He feels that before too long some of the other guys will do the same. He was also commenting about how it is becoming more and more of an issue around the US and that more people are taking advantage of the quieter electrics. I think it's a shame though because I LOVE the sound of a nice running 4 banger. Anyway, we will know sometime next week where we stand with this new restriction.