RCU Forums - cap 232 46r

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hi, i have jsut finished this model with an OS 70 fl (4 stroke) and i am having trouble sustaining vertical flight, like i only get about 3 seconds of vertical, pretty pathetic..., it just stalls, but i was wondering whether changing my prop size would get my vertical performance up a bit, coz at the moment i pull up, and next thing you know your pretty well on ya way back down again from stalling. I am currently swinging a 12x7 prop

The 12X7 is most likely the cause of that. A 7 pitch prop is mainly for speed not pull and will not give you much vertical. You want to go to a 6 pitch or even a 5 pitch. Most likely an APC 13X5, maybe a 12X5 or even a 13X4. The 13X4 will give you your best pull vertically. You will lose some straight line speed but it will climb pretty well.

Think of it this way. Larger diameter lower pitch equals pulling power, lower diameter higher pitch equals speed. I'd bet you are having a hard time slowing it down for landing

That particulr engine like to tach about 9500 to 10,000 so you prop accordingly.

Weight is your other problem. The 70 will only give good vertical with a ready to fly weight of under 6 pounds. Even with a flat pitch prop. (The APC 13x4W is the best.)

Jim

Are we talking about the WM CAP 232 46R? If so then the 70 FL should do more than pull it vertical for 3 secs. The plane is just a shade over 5.5 lbs and even a humble 46 2C turning an 11x6 will pull her vertically, albeit not unlimited. A 12x7 is not really too much prop for that engine esp when the plane is only 5 lbs. What is your engine taching? The FL is less powerful but not to the point it only pulls a 5.5 lbs plane vertical for only 3 secs.

yes i am using the World models one, and yes to asnwer bubbagates statement, i use up nearly all of the runway trying to land it sometimes... comes in way to fast... and i guess it could also be becuase the os 70fl might not be strong enough for the weight im not sure
but i have bought some new props to try out so hopefully it helps

Thanks..

I own the one on Members Videos and it has a YS .63 pushing a 13X4W APC. Try it. I'm sure you'll get unlimited vertical. The plane flies beautifully slow and the 13x4W will slow it right down on landing. Just keep a couple of clicks of throttle on it until short final and then cut it back to idle. Check out the videos.

DAV0012,
Try flatter pitch props. And take the sucker up high and see just how slowly you can fly it. You might discover it'll fly at a walking pace. My KYOSHO CAP232 does.

And if it'll fly slow way up there, it'll land slow. But don't land as slowly as it'll go up high. Keep a bit more speed up on the approach for insurance.

I've brought mine down almost vertically when the wind was up some and sorta down the runway. It really seems to have no tendency to snap. I don't much care. As long as I fly the wind and respond to what the gust do, the sucker lands like a dream.

I'm running an OS.46AX and mostly flying a 11.5x5 wood prop. That may have something to do with how slow she'll go, but who knows. I've run an 11x6 and a 12x6 and even as slow as the OS will idle, the landing speed can be less with a prop with less pitch. And since I like to dink around slow, I fly the 5" pitch mostly.

darock
I'm flying the same set up as you but find, when I start throwing it around as the speed falls off a little it'll suddenly tip stall and drop off like a rock. (Easy to catch after about 5-10 meters of fall)
Do you find the same or can I stabilize the plane more?
Balance is exactly where they say "when empty"
I love wooden props but don't have one. Recommend it????
Cheers
Glen

(also been given permission by her indoors to buy OS 70fs surpass in 8 weeks.:D)

I flew the same plane previously on an FL70, with much dissapointment in the vertical also, so much so that after 3 flights i ditched it in favour of an FS70 surpass II, swinging a 12x6 apc prop, now no more dissapointment, worth the extra cash for the FS instead of the FL, it runs smoother, idles much nicer and delivers more power, gonna try a larger diametre prop with maybe 5 pitch as recomended earlier, should be awesome, this plane is lovely and with a little bit of the elevator trimed off you get much better rudder throw for some great aerobatics. i also haven't suffered any of the fast landings either after landing my WM mustang 46 this thing is super slow, with the FS its now my most favorite plan

A model that "lands too fast" is either overweight (and that's easy to figure out) or the engine isn't idling slowly enough or you've got too much pitch on your prop. Or some or all of the above.

My CAP lands about as slowly as I wish. Matter of fact, most of my bounced landings happen because I'm not bringing it in fast enough and I wind up sorta dropping it in, and it bounces. I've got an OS46AX on her and it'll idle nice and slowly. And I'm running either an 11x6 or an 11.5x5 prop most flights.

I haven't noticed mine slowing down much when it's thrown around. If I don't pull the throttle back, that OS won't let her slow down. And she balanced left/right ok right out of the box. I do know that since I've put in some rudder/elevator mix to solve the pitch-down on rudder movement, she flies better. CAPs are known to have a pitch couple coming from rudder movement. A guy who's had more than a couple of CAPs said that the rudder increases sensitivity from aft CG more than the elevator does, but that's just hearsay to me. I've not noticed that... yet....

darock is correct in a few statements here and I am just going to add a little more to how a Cap responds to certain commands. I fly them pretty regularly with my current one being the Great Planes 160 size using the Fuji43. I have flown/owned a GP Cap21, Kangke Cap232-120, Matt Chapman (MC) 580 40 sized, Matt Chapman (MC) 580 1/3rd scale, Chip Hydes Cap-X and the current GP Cap232. I think the best one I have ever flown is the Kange one. It's heavy but it's got a really light wing loading and can land really slow

In all of my flight experience I have seen two things that are common to all Caps.

1. Barring the idle too high/too much prop pitch, weight being too much, a Cap that must land fast is either too nose heavy or the weight and idle/pitch is correct but then it has a smaller wing hence high wing loading.

2. The rudder and elevators are hugely effective.

It does not take much of either to get the plane to do what you want it to do. The 40 size MC has a max book throw of 1/2 inch for the elevators and 3 inches for the rudder. If you do much more than that for the elevators you will quickly find that you can get the wing into a semi-stalled condition. If there is any problem with lateral balance you can bet the heavy wing is going to drop. If you have allot of trim into the ailerons, this can also determine which wing is going to fall off. Now add rudder into the mix and now you get into an aggravated stall, not a good thing, especially at a low altitude. Yes, I've had the 580 series tip stall, the difference is it's not a sudden stall, it appears to just drop the wing.

Almost all planes pitch to the canopy when rudder is applied, unless you are really tail heavy. You either fly around it or you trim it out or you mix it out in the TX. Any properly trimmed plane with need little to no mixing. The problem is not allot of people will take the time to work through a trim chart and in most cases doing this on a 40 or 60 sized plane just is not worth the effort, unless you are like me and really want you plane to perform at it's best. It's allot of work and you can plan on spending 30 - 50 flights just getting it right. By then you will know your plane very well. A Cap is easy to do this with. It's a low wing and any changes needed to the main wing incidences are easily done. Changes to a mid wing design are much more difficult. Also most Caps also want to roll into the rudder.

So in my eyes, it boils down to this. For normal everyday flying and hot dogging around, keep the throws exactly as the book says, do not under any circumstances apply the elevator or rudder very quickly. Use a low pitched prop and do not be too nose heavy. In other words be smooth and have the setup close and and you will be pleasantly surprised. Try to horse a Cap around or not be close to the required setup and it will bite.

[/quote]
So in my eyes, it boils down to this. For normal everyday flying and hot dogging around, keep the throws exactly as the book says, do not under any circumstances apply the elevator or rudder very quickly. Use a low pitched prop and do not be too nose heavy. In other words be smooth and have the setup close and and you will be pleasantly surprised. Try to horse a Cap around or not be close to the required setup and it will bite.
[/quote]
Bubbagates I think you really summed it up !! I have mine converted to electric, about 30 flight so far, and my first Cap. My friend loved the way it flew, so he built one with a slime pump :D Long story short- He had another pilot, very experienced, but not with Cap's fly it- well, I think he's been flying these 3D fun-fly (Majic) too much lately- he made a large loop to come in for a landing- I wasn't there- but there's not much left. From what I gather, he pulled up elevator too abruptly with no power on the downside of the loop and it snapped into the ground- Being smooth with this plane is a MUST...be smooth, and don't fly it like a point-and-shoot 3D plane and it is very enjoyable.

And by the way...anyone thinking of getting this World Models Cap with the Castrol Color scheme better act fast- you may notice it has been removed fromWM's US Distributor website- apparently there is some type of copyright dispute/legal issues surrounding one or more of the logos and World Models is no longer selling them in the US until it is settled, that could take weeks, years, or never. So get 'em before they are gone!!! :(

Quote:

ORIGINAL: I_Fly_Coolers
you may notice it has been removed fromWM's website

You mean [link=http://theworldmodels.com/para/products/airplanedetails.php?airplaneid=110]this[/link] website accessed 30 seconds ago?

Currently displaying this Castrol CAP image?

No, I mean THIS website accessed 15 seconds ago: http://www.airborne-models.com/ Plane has been removed. This problem is for the U.S. distributors only.

World Models still shows it but Airborne-Models (the US distributor) has been forced to stop distributing it. I believe Quantum RC is the only one still selling them.

http://www2.mailordercentral.com/quantummodels/

A-K page 2

Spare parts are still available from Airborne-Models but you have to call.

Quantum Models is out of stock- spoke with them yesterday. Said they had more coming in, but then later confirmed they won't be getting any more at the moment.

Shame, Well..... I intend to write to Castrol to try and get this plane back on the market and would suggest that everyone who has one, or wants one, does the same.

Hi Sigrun, hope you got my e-mails

Hhhhm, I guess that brand new one I got sitting in the closet with the TS.56 & Pitts muffler ready to be maidened just became a collector's item!:D

Same with me Mark! Maybe it will end up like all those old kits! Put it on ebay and get like 500 bucks for it! :)

Yup, Now I don't if I wanta to fly or or just sit on it & see what happens.;)

hehe, hearing about this makes me not want to fly it anymore :P, maybe i should jsut keep in on the ground so i dont damage it, :P

I lost my manual, anyone know where the cg is suppused to be set at, & is it done upside down or right side up?

Nevermind, I found my manual. Oh & by the way while Airborne Models took it off their website, you can still walk in the door & buy as many as ya want.;)

I'm gonna fly mine tomorrow.:D