flying field
 

:surprised i saws ur picture with the extra on the tree...
the place looked almost too familiar, isnt that the palomr RC flyers field up close to camp pendleton???
ive been there once or twice and was puzzled why the pic was so familiar, then i looked at where u live and saw ur in SD. I freakin jumped of surprise!!! :eek: :D

weird
 

Mark,

My friend loaned me his CG machine, so I'll check it more accurately, but I thought it was at the rearmost CG. Not ideal for a test flight situation, maybe, but I knew I would end up with it there eventually. The book says 26-30% from the leading edge. That equates to about 4.3- 5". I had mine (at least 'till I double check and find how far off I am) about 5" back. I figured with a full tank of fuel (mounted in the nose), it would be about right. Time to go to the garage and check.


Tom,

That's the weird thing about the mixture adjustment. We had it about 3 turns out and tached it at around 9000rpm. Then I started to back it out farther to watch when the revs came down. They never did. I had it out at least 6 turns with no change. Leaning it in would just cause the engine to die. It never had that "peak" I've seen with other engines. The muffler is a slimline Pitts with the smoke pre-heater.

FunXtra,

Yup, that's the Palomar RC Flyers field. It's off of the 15 and 76 (whereas Camp Pendleton is off of the 5). It's a great field, except for those grab happy trees! Stop by some weekend. We're building a car track fairly soon. We have a RC plane field, Control Line, and Helis now, so the cars will be a good addition.

More updates to come.

Update on Creek Extra
 

ya, ive been there a couple times already, for the scale fly in (top dawg), the thing is that the field is too far away from my place, about 1 1/2 hours away :( i remember that we got there at 2 o' clock both days (just after everything was over...)

Update on Creek Extra
 

Mike, 3 turns may be way too much. Lean it out and when it begins to die, its too lean, of course. Just before it dies open it back up to where it runs again and then about 1/4 turn more. You should be still rich but ok there. Put a pump on it and you won't be sorry. Also be sure your cowl has been opened up underneath to allow cooling air to escape. This may be basic to you but Iv'e seen many planes at my field with a closed cowl; they wonder why their engine dies.
I forgot what muffler your'e running, is it the slimline, or bisson? I don't want to relieve the cowl for the front edge of the muffler.

Update on Creek Extra
 

Look for a pinhole or tear in the fuel line. Any time the needle valve quits responding I look for a air leak. Some people use fancy fuel filler valves and the damn things leak. How much does it weigh? I'm slowly trying to finish mine and debating servo locations.

thanks
 

I am using a Slimline Pitts with the preheater. I took some pics of the cut-out. I may have over-done it, but I am definetly getting enough flow OUT of the bottom. I am considering cutting some vents by the head. Or add a little concave scoop right behind it to pull the air out. It is very close to the cowl. It may not be getting enough flow.

Don't worry H82Crash. I'm fairly new to this, so basic information is good for me anytime!

I'm also using a "qwik-fill" valve. I bought a Hayes tank, and it doesn't have a way to add a third line with a clunk to serve as a fill/ empty. You can add a third fill line, but it does not help to empty the tank. It doesn't allow you to put a line in the tank. It just has a nipple. I'm starting to suspect this valve.

I weighed mine with a fish scale last night and it is about 11lbs. It's a little hard to read, but figure it's right around there.

Also, as embarrassing as it is to admit, my CG was WAY off. I had it at least 5 1/2 inches back. When I put the CG meter at 4 1/2 (which is about in the middle of the recommended location), I still had to move my battery up by the fuel tank AND at about 8.3 oz (a lot of lead AND a 5/8" wrench) up on the front of the motor box to get it to level out. I'll be making a trip to the hobby store for some more lead. ughhh. That's a lot of weight.

I definetly dodged a bullet. :rolleyes:

Keep in mind, I mounted my rudder servo up front and it STILL came out this tail heavy.

Build yours with this in mind and you'll be fine. I'll fly it again this weekend and start a new thread with pics.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Mike

Update on Creek Extra
 

Mike, glad to hear where your c.g. came out at. I'm almost finished with mine. I've installed a 1.8 moki in mine hoping to help balance mine out without adding any "dead" weight. Keep us informed as to your progress and any flight reports.

Update on Creek Extra
 

Mike hope all works out well here soon.

I have glued on my tail feathers of the creek extra, intall the rudder, mounted the motor (os-160 w/brison pitts, vp-30 pump) i will build me a plate so i can mount my tank on the wing tube for cg purposes. I need to intall all the control horns and servos. i have not worked on her in a week so i am due to clock in soon. I need to hurry on this project so i can start on my funtana that i bought from Pugsley.......

Update on Creek Extra
 

Mike.. easy way to check the valve is to put a finger over it with engine running then check needle valve operation. If its leaking this will seal the leak temp. Drove me nuts on a plane I had. I use a fuel dot and an in-line tee in the main line and pinch off the carb line with hemostats to keep fuel from running out of carb.

Update on Creek Extra
 

Super Idea, superfab! I'll try that this weekend. I've used fuel dots before, and like them. I thought I'd try this, this time. I doubt it is causing this particular problem, but your tip will quickly and easily find out.

Thanks!

Mike

alignment and incidence
 

Mike can you tell me how you jigged or held everything in alignment when you glued in the wing tube

I know this may not be a simple question to answer but I'm at that point now and haven't been able to figure out how I'm going to do it. :confused:

I'm going the OS 160 route also so I'll be watching your posts with great interest. I don't want to have the same problems so I hope to learn from your experiences.

WHAT A GAL WHAT A TROOPER 70 FEET WOW! :D
Glad it all worked out for you.

Thanks
Jim

you have no idea
 

Jim,

Don't worry about asking a too simple question. I've already asked them and I'm still asking. I'm pretty new to this. I'm happy to offer any help or ideas. The only way I can repay the help I've already received is to pass on what I've learned.

You have no idea how brave she is about that kind of stuff. I'm no push over either. I'll jump out of planes, race cars, whatever, but she is WAY more brave when it comes to climbing etc.

About the wing alignment. Keep in mind, I may be way off, but I don't know what the "issue" was with this. I installed the wing pins and hooks before I tried to glue the wing tube in. With the pins in, the wings were held in place, centered vertically and the incidence was automatically set.

I did go out and buy an incidence meter and assuming I checked it right, the wing pins held the wing at a perfect zero degree reading using the horizontal stab/ elevator as a reference. The front pin hole in one side of the fuse had a SLIGHT amount of movement, which amounted to being able to rock the wing and cause MAYBE a half a degree of change.

So, my suggestion for you is to glue the wing pins in and use them with confidence. Basically, install the wing as if you were going to fly the plane. Spring/ aluminum tube and all. If you can find someone in your area who has a meter, it wouldn't hurt, but I can't imagine the pin holes would have been drilled THAT far off- if at all. The meter was $40. Considering I'll use it once, it was wasted money. But I guess if the wings would have been off, I would have been happy.

Also, I used plastic hair clips (again, cool girlfriend, OH! fiance by the way, comes through) to hold everything together. Clothes pins would work good too. Just make sure they are plastic so the epoxy doesn't glue them to the plane.

I used Erick's suggestions about putting little holes in the wood, but couldn't find a Woodpecker, so I just used an exacto knife and with a poke-twist motion, achieved the same effect.

Good luck, I'll be posting some pics of what I've done hopefully this weekend. I'm hoping to get some successfull flights.

Mike

Update on Creek Extra
 

Ok Great! I've got the meter and it wasn't a waste of money. Wings sometimes warp while in storage and you can always us the incidence meter to check things out such as wash out.
;) I've already did the woodpecker work and I may try to glue it up tonight.

Did you use the supplied engine mount?

Hope your weekend turns out well and that OS acts right :O)

Thanks
Jim

Update on Creek Extra
 

Hey Jim,

Good point about that warpage.... my Magic's wing is warped. Hmmmm, another use for that meter after all! Yeah!

Yes, I did use the supplied motor mount. It flexes (sp?) quite a bit, but I just saw a twin engined plane doing the same thing with those types of mounts. I doubt it will affect anything, but it's weird to grab the nose of the engine and flex it back and forth.

Have a good weekend.

Mike

pics of cowl and cutout
 

Here are a couple of pics of the cowl cutouts.

Mike

front view
 

Here's the front view. I may end up cutting some out above the OS's head for better cooling.

Mike

PS- for those attentive students who noticed the spinner doesn't have the bolt in, good for you! It was just set there as the hobby shop didn't have the adapter for the OS. I'm flying it without the spinner for now.

Update on Creek Extra
 

I made a stand up from pvc, cradled the plane in it and put the wings on with the help of my daughter. Put the incidence meter on it and was amazed at how accurate everything was. :D Will glue it sometime this weekend.

Tomorrow the temperature will be in the low 50's with winds 10 -15mph (down the runway I hope) so I plan to take my other $200 ARF ;) (Sig SE) and fly. Have a good weekend.

pic of the lead I had to put in
 

I moved the battery up inside the motor box and had to add lead on all four sides of the motor box.

Here's a pic.

Much better flight, but dead sticks
 

Ok, with the CG correct it flies MUCH better. Our resident test pilot took it up and made some circuits. He made a perfect 2 to 3 point landing and taxied back.

I let my other flying buddy and expert pilot fly, and after coming out of a loop on the down line, the engine coughed blew smoke and died. DEAD STICK.

No problem, the Extra floated right in. Phew. Glad I fixed that CG problem.

Checked the plane out and leaned the low end a bit. High end was at about 1 3/4 turns. Same as the other pilots 160FX. Took off seemed ok. Loop, same thing, but kept running. Idled it down for final and cough, dead stick. F@#*!

Took the cowl off and with the help of the club president, adjusted the low end. Had to lean it out 3/4 of a turn to achieve his "pinch" test approval at idle. High end seemed ok, but never had too much of an affect.

Then someone noticed my wing rotating on the wing tube. CRAP, my wing pins came out. I CA'd them when I built it, but, of course, everyone was sure to tell me to use Epoxy.

Anyway, it flew good while it flew. Lots of vertical, but I doubt it will hover and pull out with any authority. The juries still out as I don't have the prop I want on it. I'm using a regular power point 18x6. I have an APC 18x6W on order.

Till next time.........

DANGER!!!!!!
 

CA eats foam alive!

the wings are foam and wood. only use oderless CA on foam parts. Epoxy or Pro Bonds on foam products.

PS if you look at the os-160 manual you can see that there is about a 1 turn area from rich to best setting for the high end as a guide. The low needles controls the idel to mid area... Hope all is well for you and the rest of the gang that own the extra. I feel lazy today so mine is just collecting dust.......

Update on Creek Extra
 

Mike, try putting a pump on the motor. That should give it a little moore poop. Skerlock has one on his 160 in a edge 540 W 18-8 c/f prop at I believe 12lbs and it pulls out of a hover with authority. I'm going to try putting all my servos in the fuse ti keep this thing as light as puss. I guess I need to make or order a linkage for the elevators. Hope your adventure keeps getting better.

Tim

OS 1.60
 

Hi Mike

I hope leaning the low end out fixes the problem with the OS

Let us know ;)

Where did you end up with the CG. My calculations lead me to believe the range will be from 4.22" to 4.75" on the Great Planes CG machine. But I'd like to know what yours measured at

Keep that pretty gal out of the trees and remember:

The five most essential words for a healthy, vital relationship are "I apologize" and "you're right dear."

C Ya!
Jimbo

Update on Creek Extra
 

HA! Good one Jim. My CG is right about 4.5" right now. My calculations only differ from yours in that the far end is about 4.95". The root is 16.5" and 30% would be 4.95".

Krazy,

Yup, I know about that. I thought the little tubes were fiberglass. Hmmm maybe not. I'll have to check, although I'll be using Epoxy anyway. Thanks for the warning.

Superfab,

I have a pump I can try that I used for an ST3000. I'll give it a try. Do you know what kind of muffler Skerlock has? The guy who looked at my engine said I need to drill out the pressure nipple NOT to allow more pressure in, but to allow built up pressure back OUT as you idle down. This would prevent it from loading up the engine.

I'll be sure to let everyone know what I figure out. I'm betting on the low end setting as I've read about that other places. It just sucks because it runs fine on the ground. It only has the problem in the air.

OH! We thought it might be overheating, so with a Raytec temp gauge, we checked it after each flight. It was never more than 200 degrees. Most of the time it was about 165.

Mike

Update on Creek Extra
 

Thanks Mike

You've done a great job with this thread :D

Going to the field :)

C Ya!

Update on Creek Extra
 

My Creek Extra got it maiden flight today. Everything went very well. The CG was right at 5" with a MVVS 1.6 gas engine. I got 3 or 4 flights today with no problems at all. It tracked straight down the runway and was very stable in the air. I did notice that the elevator was VERY touchy. I think I may be getting some flexing in the stock pushrods. It seemed to oscillate up and down during level flight. I will change it out and see what happens. Even with the CG at the aft limit, it seemed very stable and stalled straight forward without dropping a wing.

Mark