RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Hey guys, did my maiden flight tonight. Saito 1.25, JR 1650 6 volt battery, futaba 7 channel receiver, futaba 9202 servos on surfaces, 3004 on throttle. All I can say is WOW. Amazing plane. Go where you point it, spins are incredible. Low rates are worthless, went straight to high rates and never looked back.

The snaps were fast and furious, but did not stop on a dime. They required some good timing to stop level. Spin release was also delayed, make sure you have some altitude to recover. To the belly coupling with knife edge, but was easily mixed out.

Quite frankly this plane flew so well and smooth, I am considering using it to start my pattern and or Imac career next year. What a sweet plane. I do want to sell it to pay for some bigger planes, but I won't let it go without a tear :)

2 thumbs up.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Now try this:

Set the low rates to "high" and set the high rates to "insane". Then, on high rates, Get a lot of altitude, start a loop, and when the plane is at the top, push both sticks toward the antenna (Full throttle, full right rudder, full left aileron, and full down elevator). It will flop around for a spin or two, but then it will settle in to the nicest inverted flat spin. The more tail-heavy it is, the flatter it will go.

And as you noticed with the regular spin, pull out early. You just let the sticks go to neutral and it will nose down - then let it build up speed and GENTLY pull out. If you try to pull out too quickly, it can snap (Remember, you have insane elevator rates).

Here is a video of mt Skybolt that shows the flat spin and gradual pull out. This is a Kit Version, but the ARF does it just as well.

[link=http://www.minnartist.net/RCU/grafix/skybolt_high_res.wmv]Skybolt Video[/link]

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

When I set mine up Minn, I used triple rates, so I already have the max throw rates in. I was hoping to get it to do some tumbling maneuvers. I will give it a try on saturday when I am out, but I find it hard to believe it will get any flatter then it was yesterday. It's been a long time since I flew a plane that was as close to "being on rails" as the Skybolt is. All the new 3d lightweight float around planes never give that feeling anymore. They fly well, but just don't feel like the skybolt does. A great plane for yanking and banking.

I also forgot to mention that with max throws and the saito 1.25, the skybolt was more than capable of many 3d aerobatics. Although I would not recommend even trying it to a beginner simply because you lose aileron function quite often because of the lack of surface and there distance from the propwash.

Good luck!

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Hey Minn.. you gonna make it up to ACRC's fall fly out tomorrow? :)

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Hi Minn, I was just wondering 2 things, where did you install your smoke, what size tank for the smofe are you using and what motor are you using? Loved the video.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

My horizontal stab ended up a little crooked after being glued on. One edge is just about 3/16" higher than the other when compared with the wing. I should have used four identical soup cans under the wing tips and stab tips. I know better so I am frustrated with myself. Am I screwed?

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

First I should note that that was a Kit version of the skybolt. There is a space under the front of the tank forward of the landing gear that is covered with sheeting. I removed the sheeting and that where the pump went.

I then moved the tank back into the radio compartment, and added an 8oz tank where the tank normally sat.

The engine was a YS 91AC, so moving the tank back was no problem for fuel draw.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Not sure from your description if the whole stab is cocked, or twisted on one side.

If you consider it could have 4 corners, are the two on one side up the same amount? The stab not level.
Or is just one corner on one side? That side warped.

Both sides should be parallel with the wing. It's not usual for one side to be parallel and the other angled up (to have it's tip 3/16" higher). The stab would have to be creased in the middle to do that.

Can you take a picture from the back and upload it?

If the stab on one side is warped, it can be straightened by ironing.
If the whole stab is not level, not parallel to the wing, you can fix that too. But that's some work.

If when you look at the situation from directly behind the airplane, when one tip lines up with the TE of the wing, but the other is higher or lower than the thickness of the stab, it probably will affect the pitching of the airplane. If it's not that far off, you might not see a thing in the air.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

The stab is not parallel with the wing when viewed from behind. It is close, though. If the wing is level with the floor, the stab angled. It is not curved or bent. It is not crooked from above either. In other words, the measurement from stab tip to wingtip is identical on both sides of the airplane. But it is not parallel with the wing when viewed from behind.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

So it is 3/16" off one tip compared to the other tip? That'd be 3/32" each side.

You're not screwed. I'd fly it and see if it shows up in flight. You'd see an elevator couple. When the elevator was deflected up, the plane would yaw in one direction. When deflected down, it's yaw in the other. If you don't see that at quick, max deflections, it doesn't need fixing.

It is easier to fix now if the fin/rudder aren't on. And probably would only take slitting above and below the stab on one side. The slits would provide the space to move that side up or down. Then CA the closed slit, check to see you've got it level, then slip a filler in the upper gap and CA it. Needless to say, you'd want to iron strips of white to cover the slits, but I do that anyway to cover the stab/fuselage seams. (Airplanes last longer that way.) And it sounds like you won't need to do it anyway.

However, if you're not entirely satisfied with this advice, there will be no additional charge. ;)

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

If it were me, I would try this:

Set the lower side of the stab on a can or stack of books to raise it off the ground and add some weight to the other side. Then work a heat gun around the glue joint (Carefully so as not to ruin the covering)

Worst-case senario, carefully cut through the underside of the stab (On the lower side) and add some thin shims to lift that side. Then epoxy the seam.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Thank you, Minn and DaRock, for your input. I'll fly it first, hoping that it is not a big enough problem to need to address. I would have put up a picture, but am away from home for the weekend. If I do end up with a yaw problem linked to elevator deflection, as DaRock described, maybe I could mix it out with elevator rudder mixing. I know that's just a band-aid, but hey, if it works.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

I run all my Saitos inverted with not a single problem. Not sure what horror stories are out there but its probably people who have no clue.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Out of curiosity...

My Skybolt pulls toward the belly HARD when you attempt a knife edge.

It exhibits the same behaviour with high rudder deflections in level flight.

Does everyone see the same thing?

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Depends on the definition of HARD. ;)
Being used to dealing with a tuck and roll out of almost everything I fly, I'm not a good one to judge degrees. And will trim the rudder couples down (never bother to try and completely erase them as they're often speed sensitive somewhat) with the first flights. And rudder couples are so often encountered it's hard to remember which planes showed what degree back in the first flights. Plus memory goes with age.......... If I remember correctly. ;)

I make a habit of trimming out rudder couple on any model that shows it on purpose. Not because I can't fly knife edge without help because I can. And not because I'm lazy and don't want to. It's because you really need to fly the takeoff and the approach as you come over the numbers with the rudder. Ailerons can kill the airplane at low speed, high AOA, close to the ground. So I fix that early on.

A push toward the belly is actually a nose down pitch. And darned if I usually want to be changing pitch on takeoffs and landings with the rudder. If I want pitch changes then, I want them to come from where they oughta come from.

I actually base the trim corrections on the behaviour in level flight. Since that's closer to what takeoffs and landings are like. I'm not sure that doesn't fix the knife edge but to me that's not of much importance.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Bipes all tend to do the same. Here is the mix I use in a knife edge:

Rudder Either direction mixed to -
Up Elevator
Opposite Aileron (opposite to the way it will want to roll)

This will also make your rudder turns very flat.

I also give a throttle to rudder mix to correct any thrust issues.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

I maidened mine last week, ended up with 8% elevator and 14% aileron to mix out the coupling. Controls remained responsive and even throughout the rollers and KE flight with these mixes. Flat turns were flat and easy to maintain.

I thought I was having thrust issues with mine (Saito 1.25 on the front of it), but it started lurching the opposite way(left) on some of my uplines. I dialed in some expo on my rudder to tame it down around center a little, and it is easy to keep it pointed up now. So much motor for it, if your not pointed perfectly straight up it wants to go off to a side. I don't know that i would mix rudder to throttle, because the thrust issues will change depending on which direction you are pointing and how hard you blip the throttle.

Hope this helps,
Mike Flander

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

da Rock and airborneSGT:

"Hard" as in full rudder deflection from level flight causes a relatively fast nose down move ( I'll have to try this inverted next time too), as if I had pushed the nose down purposely at full deflection.

My Ultimates pull toward the belly too ( and they also roll a bit ), but I can easily compensate with a little up elevator and aileron.

The Skybolt surprised me as I cannot hold a knife edge on it at all.... and I have no problem doing so with most planes even when they have a high dihedral such as my Spacewalker II.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Opjose,

Mix it out. Mine did the same thing, as I stated above, 8% elevator and 14% aileron mix and it fly KE all day long. it will even do knife edge loops with enough altitude. The funtana X100 couples to the belly much "harder" than the skybolt does, and is not that uncommon.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

OK I'll give that a shot.

I guess I should have also tried out the rudder coupling behaviour with the plane inverted as well.



I have a Funtana 90S as well.

It does push to the belly, but only a small amount. So small that I don't bother to mix it out.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

opjose,
Actually I was wondering how hard it tucked. Mine was pretty awful. Fairly hard. Roll was just as hard.

And I don't have my TX up here to check, but I fairly certain my percentage of elevator trim is 8% but I'm pretty sure the aileron percentage is also 8%. No idea why they would be half what trixer needed. Ohhhh wait.....

You know what. You remember the discussion about aileron rigging for the Ultimate? Bet you do. Well, my Skybolt is rigged the same. And the ailerons work in unison not at different rates of deflection. I'll be darned. That's basically an indication of the value of rigging the ailerons to work in sync, not basically skewed. How bout dat...... I'll bet nobody could tell anything about the way the two different airplanes fly, but there is obviously some difference. Kewl.....

Remember the rigging deal? Picture shows the Skybolt's.

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Aileron rigging so they work in unison? Whoa whoa whoa.... give me a link to this discussion? I use the angle pro(digital) to set up my throws, and all FOUR of my ailerons are damn near perfect, meaning they all move up within a tenth of a degree of each other, and the same for down.
<-- Really curious as to what the heck you are talking about :)

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

I sure DO remember...

So are you saying that by equalizing the deflection the Skybolt exhibits less or no belly tuck and/or less or no roll during knife edges?

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Right, and I am saying the the ailerons on my skybolt are equalized. All 4 have the exact same throw up and down...... So I don't see what the difference is?

RE: Super Skybolt ARF
 

Nope
The tucks and rolls are going to be basically equal because they originate from the rudder deflection. Nothing else. But the trim required to cure the problem...... that's the clue.
The amount of deflection required seems to be less than Trixer. That'd indicate that the lesser amount of trim is giving equal results as the greater amount of trim. That should be an indication of the cleanliness of the ailerons overall effect.

But truth is, I got no idea what his setup is. Nor what his radio is. Nor how much his rigging causes his servos to move or how much throw his ailerons have. So basically I'm hoping and wishing and reading exactly what I choose from the tiny shreds of information I've seen. Sound familiar? chuckle.......... And that's my story and I'm sticking to it.