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-   -   Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions) (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/arf-rtf-75/6494380-top-flite-b-25-arf-tecnical-tips-suggestions.html)

norm 01-28-2011 09:25 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Try Coolpower multi 15% full synthetic, this is all I use and nothing else. I have tried many fuels and got rusted bearings...with coolpower i now wear out bearings of old age no rust and I get 9600 rpm with 12 x 8 3 blade MAS. Better fuel better results. Avoid using high nitro in those engines since it is costly and those are not exactly made for it.

Give it a try


gregory.aldrich1 01-29-2011 05:11 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Hey Normand, it was me, Greg who was asking about the fuel choices. I appreciate the advice, thanks.

norm 01-29-2011 09:04 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Ok Greg,

the mind is like a computers, it glitches sometimes, thanks for the correction, but wait till you reach your 40's.


djstar39 01-29-2011 11:33 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Normand, you were probably responding to my post. I just could never get past about 8600 rpm with Wildcat 15%. Without changing anything else, the 30% got me to 9500 rpm. Are you suggesting that Coolpower 15% might give me the extra 900 - 1000 rpm over the Wildcat? Willing to try! ;)

Oh, and about the 40's... hit 50 last year. All downhill from here!

acerc 01-29-2011 02:44 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
If you guy's would'nt mind, one more question.
How much oil from the exhaust is getting into the landing gear area?

gregory.aldrich1 01-29-2011 04:14 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Robert, I couldn't answer that question, but I can tell you that I plan on using an exhaust diverter to try and cut down a little on the build up on the gear. It may make it look a little less scale, but I'm not really trying to go thru a complete spring cleaning everytime I fly the damn thing, ya know? lol

djstar39 01-29-2011 04:16 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)

:) Lots!!! It's a big slimy mess. However, a lot of the oil comes out of the breather tube from the crankase so exhaust deflectors might help a little. But you should invest in a lot of paper towels!! :D

Now that I read your question again, I still get quite a bit of oil on the gear but most of it is on the nacelle and wing. Keeps your gear nice and lubricated!


acerc 01-29-2011 05:10 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)

Thank's djstar. That about wrap's it up for me. Think I'll go with ziroli and gas. I really hate the oil. Especially with such nice plane's.

norm 01-29-2011 07:01 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Dave and Greg,

I got confused a bit witjh names! But the fuel issue is one that I have tried and finally understood the provenance of fuel ingredients is one that Morgan fuel (Coolpower) seems to have in control: Consistant color, performance, from batch to batch and I order 12 case (48 gal) per year fore myself and the rest of the skid for my buddys at the club. The highlight is an after run in the fuel, in fact the synthetic oil residue act as an after run and even tints inside the engine in green. Also the alcool, the nitro and the oil is refined at the same place ( as they say) and not outsourced to the lowest bidder. The quality is consistant. Nevertheless I noticed there is a difference and a remarquable increase in performance, lower temperature of operation, easy start and definitely less wear and absolutely no rust or oxidation.

So what I'm saying is the fuel is really better and will get you xtra rpm, I dont know how their shares behave on the stock market but the product is the best of all brands I tried out there. The web site is copied below, check out what they have and try it, let me know.



djstar39 01-29-2011 07:05 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Thanks Normand! I will give it a shot! I buy my fuel at Toledo so we'll see if I can pick up some quantity. Will need to check to see if Morgan Fuels is there. Probably are but I usually buy the Wildcat so I don't look for them.

I've done the rusted bearings thing enough times! Perhaps this is the solution. Do you do afterrun oil as well?


gregory.aldrich1 01-29-2011 07:20 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Thanks Normand for confirming, again, what I have been told many times before. I always liked Morgan "Omega" with the castor blend and since all of my engines have been broke in and run on the stuff since birth, I just stuck with it. But, last year, I found myself with only one Saito left that had been run on hte stuff and three to five new 2 and 4 strokes being broke in and used this year, I figured if there were a good time to make the switch, it was now. So I bought some good ol omega for the last Saito drinking that brand and the rest of my load was the cool power for the new engines. It was actually cheaper than the castor stuff too. Anyway, so looking forward to getting back to the build this coming week. I went with the Futaba 401 gyro as you recommended and that arrives Monday with the rest of the parts. The last bits will come in about two weeks. A couple "Match boxes" from Horizon and a couple glow drivers from Sonic Tronics and we are in business. Looks like weathering, panel lines, rivets will have to wait until next winter. By then I should be fairly used to the bird. In fact, I have also ordered the Real Flight 5.5 with the expansion pack including the Mitchel so I can practice. Now I just need ot figure out how to make it fly like the real thing will. I know you can configure the models in the software but I haven't a clue how. Guess I will have ot do some reading up on it. Anyway, thanks again for the insight. You've been a big help so far my man, thanks.

norm 01-29-2011 07:32 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Dave Greg thanks for the kind words...Dave the fiftys...(I'm turning 49!!!) no you need no after run oil the oil residue in the fuel act as the after run.

Also reading greg's last post and all those purchases, the B-25 on the sim is perfect and behave much like the TF B-25. So coming back on the subject of the previous post; After a reflecxion, what do you think makes a plane fly?


norm 01-29-2011 07:56 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Ok I know this is a tough question but the answer is simple:

CASH $$$$ is what makes a plane fly, the more you put the more it flys!, aint that true!


gregory.aldrich1 01-29-2011 09:07 PM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
It does seem to be the truth Normand. Although the longer I am in this hobby, the bigger the jones is and the more my drugs cost me. This is the all time highest I have ever dumped into a plane. I've saved all the receipts and I'm guessing if I added them up I would be over two grand at this point, or way more. So, I figured the flight sim would be a good idea. For one, what's another 200.00 if it saves me thousands and hundreds of hours of work? Secondly, my son will be five this march, I'm building him a trainer as I write this and he can take off fly and land on the cheap sim we have now. Granted, he isn't graceful with it yet, but with a nice sim like real flight, he can get the feel allot better and I'm hoping to get him on a buddy box this season, with the trainer of course. When it comes to the mitchel, he can have her when I'm done having my fun and he can handle her.
So, I had real flight 3.5 years ago and had downloaded the mitchel of of the sharing pages. That particular model was equipped with gassers so it wasn't really a true representation of the actual Mitchel ARF. My question is at this point, does the one Great Planes designed for the sim act like the real thing? I think you answered that question. So getting used to the bird on the sim will be good. More importantly, I have to figure out a way to equip the sim model with a gyro and then have one engine go out unexpectedly so I can deal with that senario. I know you can add gyros, or at least you could on 3.5 if I remember right, but can you simulate a single engine failure on a twin? Does anyon know? Thanks, Greg

wm6929 01-30-2011 01:14 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
hit the "k" button once.

djstar39 01-30-2011 04:58 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)

The B-25 on RF is close. What I notice is that the real thing (model) feels heavier in the air. You can't stand it on it's wingtip and rip it around turns without some bad things happening. RF seems to let you get away with that. Slow and gentle turns with a lot of patience on your end to just let a nice gentle turn happen.

If you fly fighters or other sport planes, you can whip them around pretty good without the bad things happening.

Also, takeoff rolls on RF seem to be pretty easy. You can get in the air pretty fast. If you're on grass, it takes awhile to build that speed.

Just my impressions... I'm sure others have thoughts. I have a 5 year old as well. Haven't broken him of the 'joy' of smashing a plane into the ground on the sim! [:@]


gregory.aldrich1 01-30-2011 05:17 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Yeah dave, I hear you about the slow and gentle. Yes I fly sport, 3D, scale, pretty much anything. I do have a habit of ripping it up in the air, but my mindset on this one from the start has been that I will fly it scale like, and take it easy on her. I have other planes to rough up and stunt with and I can really appreciate a scale warbird flight. I try to fly a model like it would be flown in full scale. On take off ascent, I gently ascend to altitude and then roll outward to the pattern. I really think a WWII bird looks funny when it's flown as a sport model. Lets face it, these planes flew in the forties! They were not what we have today. In full scale, if you pulled on them too hard, your wing might just break off and there ya go, say hello to the dirt. So, I'm pretty sure I wont be yanking the Mitchel around. It wouldn't look right.
As for the youngster? Well, lets just say he enjoys crashing them on the sim too, but he really can fly the sim if he tries and I'm hoping the effort I am putting into this trainer for him is not without reward.
I'll see what I can do in RF 5.5 to add weight to the Mitchel. I know you can do allot with the aircraft editor, so I'll just see if I can add a little weight somehow to make it "heavier" in the air. As I recall, the model I downloaded off the share pages a few back was pretty heavy feeling. If you didn't touch down just so, the gear would shear right off! Anyway, thanks for the tips.

djstar39 01-30-2011 05:20 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Once you get her the way you want her on the Sim, please share it out. Would love to try it!

gregory.aldrich1 01-30-2011 06:02 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
You bet Dave. Should be getting the new RF 5.5 later part of this coming week. I'll be getting right into adjusting that bird best I can and then I'll share it. It would be really good if you could try it and let me know if it feels better than the default. That way I'll know that I am practicing with as close a representation as possible. Anyway, off to church to give thanks to the one who makes all this possible. Peace, Greg

ronbell 01-30-2011 06:42 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt"><font size="3" face="Calibri">Greg &amp; Dave,

Interesting comments on the sim - I got the RF expansion pack at Christmas so that I could start playing around with the Mitchell while I build her. I have been surprised at how much easier she is to fly than I was expecting and have suspected that the sim might not be as accurate a representation as I would like. My fear is that I might build false confidence as a result. I have also sunk over $3K into this aircraft so I will be being VERY careful as I get to know her.

If you do figure out how to modify the sim model to be more realistic then please do share. I've so far been afraid to try doing that for fear of really screwing things up.

By the way guys, you are the youngsters - I turn 55 next month!


norm 01-30-2011 07:12 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
I agree 5/5 with the way Dave described the behavior og the B-25 on the sim. I must say that this is the trickiest airplane if you under-eatimate the precision factor while you build. You must never assume to compensate another way, ex: while you assemble the flaps and ailerons, you must have a near perfect alignment before choosing to adjust electronically and same thin for the engines.

Also for take off on grass, you normally have 3 pos sw on a radio, place the ist flap setting, (normally the neutral or middle position of the switch) on approximately 12-15 degree flap and 38-40 degree second position. The full flap setting will create lift and enough drag to have perfect scale landing. The first setting will create enough additional lift on t/o roll and very little drag to help reducing the weight of the plane on the roll . BTW the longer t/o roll is a spectacular advantage and makes attractive t/o and rest assure that she will lift 25-50 feet away from the end of the runway and lift slowly.

The simulator reproduce the behavior of the t/o very close to reality, good way to practice.

This model is very easy to fly but if you under estimate the settings it becomes a nightmare.

I cant wait to see the snow melt here and get back to the field!!!


ronbell 01-30-2011 07:35 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Normand and Dave,

Thanks for the tips - it's really great to get these while still building!   Do either of you have any comment on nose steering sensitivity?  I keep hearing that 'less is more' with this type of aircraft but the sim seems very forgiving.


gregory.aldrich1 01-30-2011 09:26 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
All good advice for the Mitchell Normand. I should have also mentioned besides trying to get the sim model as close to the real thing as possible, I also plan on interfacing with my 9303 so I can one, use the same settings as the real world model and two, so I will be used to using all the switches properly by the time I actually maiden the real thing. I can see myself now, I get used to the switches on the "Interlink" controller and out to the field I go witht the 9303 and hit the wrong switch at the wrong time! Since I plan on spending allot of time flying the bird on the sim, I figured why not actually set the thing up with the 9303 and feel out the throws and such. I'll set up the real Mitchell's throws and such and then copy that model to another slot in my transmitter so any changes I make on the sim model wont affect the actual ARF's settings. I got it all figured out! lol All except for the part about the nausea felt when running up the motors for the first roll out and liftoff and of course the dread felt on that first approach. I think a good dose of alcohol might help but there is a rule about that. :)
Anyway, I will keep all posted about what progress I might make on the sim experiment and will share the completed product if anyone wants it.

RCGuy41 01-31-2011 05:21 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
Greg and Dave,

In RF 3.5 and higher, have you guy's tried playing with the aircraft editor to change the engines to include proprllers. The editor allows you to play with the CG by adding weight. I do believe there is a setting to allow RF to simulate inflight emergency's but I haven't play'd with the system in such a long time I don't quite remember; the good thing, I still have the program on my laptop and it wouldn't take much time to go back to school myself again?

I have been reading a lot of issues with fuels and for the most part there are various products on the RC market that are good/O.K./poor. Omega Fuels are good but used over time will cause your bearing to rust, castor oil doesn't protect like after run oil does if you don't or can't fly very often. Then there is the enviroment which the aircraft is stored in, is it in your garage, shed, trailor, or inside your home. Greg we live with high humidity here in Maryland and over prolonged periods of time humidity will cause rust to include wood to deteriorate. When you have a controlled enviroment one can protect an engine and planes for many year's, but since the vast majority of us store our planes in other area's (all mine in my garage) our planes and engines will rust and the wood will degrade over time. To protect my engines I changed from omega fuels to cool power fuels the reason cool power fuels use after run oils which do protect one's engine; then after the flying season is over all my engines get a good slug of after run oil for storage. On another note, Normand probably knows this, do not store your flight pack battery's in your plane over the winter if the planes is being exposed to prolonged cold. The reason, battery's loose their charge when left in prolonged cold even causing damage to your battery and the possability of a dead cell and loss of an aircraft in flight. Saw it happen at my field with a guys 33% 3D bird last spring. These are just my two cents worth.

djstar39 01-31-2011 05:29 AM

RE: Top Flite B-25 ARF (Tecnical, tips, suggestions)
I'm going to try Coolpower as Normand suggests. I haven't messed with the RF aircraft editor so I can't reall add to the discussion on that point.


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