Seagull PC-9 Help
 

I bought a PC-9 about 12 months ago, today I went to the airport to fly it. It has an O.S. LA .40, new 15% fuel, A3 O.S. glowplug, 25 ft. above sea level. I did some taxing, after about 2 or 3 minutes the engine would die out. This process continued for an hour. Is there something abnormal I need to know about this Seagull design, maybe something with the fuel tank location? I did eveything according to the manual.

Thanks for any help!

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

If it is the Seagull version, and unless they have relocated the fuel tank, it sits about 3/8 to 1/2 inch above the needle on an inverted engine. It's not difficult to relocate. If you don't want to get into lowering the tank, use a Perry Pump and you don't have to worry about engine flooding.I also think your going to be a little underpowered with a 40. I flew mine with an Irvine 53 without any problems at all.

Sooner or later, we all discover that, "Experience is a hard teacher. She always gives the test first, and the lesson some time later!"

Phillip

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

It looks like you have an engine problem, but you haven't given much info about it. Is it new, broken in, yet? I suggest get the engine sorted out before you do any airplane work. Is your idle set right? Often, it is difficult to get the low end lean enough with the air bleed carb, but be sure the engine has been run in before fussing too much with the low end.

I agree that under best of conditions, you may find that plane underpowered with that engine. It is a great engine, but it may be a little overtaxed with this airframe.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

I agree on it being an engine adjustment issue. Can't go into how the LA will fly this airframe.

Anytime you have an engine inverted you need to adjust your needles, low and high, with it inverted. It will work great when it is sitting upright and then run like crap when you flip it over.

All chrome, someone will call it a UFO.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Hi,

Well the engine is new and freshly broke-in. I adjusted the air-bleed and the high speed the same way I did for other O.S. 2 strokes I have. The manual says the kit can use a .40 but I had a feeling it would be under-powered. I have an O.S. .46 La on a Tower Trainer 60, it highly under powered but still fly's great. The PC-9 would only start when it was inverted, then run kinna rough when we put it upright. I looked close at the main needle and it was below the fueltank. Today I will re-locate the main needle valve and set it above the tank, it will take some slight moding but I think this may be the problem. I also have 2 Perry Pumps if all else fails.

Thanks again!!

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

I have a Seagull PC9 and was flying it with a Magnum 52 FS and it barely had enough power, would fly but was very difficult to do anything with. Then put a Thunder Tiger 54FS in the nose, was marginally better. Got tired of messing around with it and now have a Saito 72 FS at the front. Now it has some authority and flies like it should. I doubt if a 40LA will do anything other than taxi it on the ground. It sounds like your plane will be grossly underpowered to me.

My experience with these things tell me that unless you just want to do slow, make that very slow circuits with that motor there is barely enough power to pull it off the ground. I have another PC9 in the cupboard and would not fly it with anything less than a 46AX or the 72 Saito.

If I was a LA 40 engine in the front of a Seagull PC9 I think I would keep on stopping as well, not even nearly enough power to fly a low wing bird like that

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

You don't say what the other 2 strokes are, but if they are conventional carbs (not air bleed) that may be your problem. Conventional 2 needle carbs turn the same direction for rich/lean adjustment on both HS and LS needles. The air bleed carb LS is the opposite - turn out for lean and in for rich. Your starting point with the air bleed is to set the low end screw so you can see it at half way in the air opening, and you may need to open it (lean) from there.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Wow Delta,

I didn't think the .40 would be so under powered. I believe the LA series engines give more punch then other regular .40's. If I remember, O.S. labled the LA as sport engines. The .40 LA probably matches the power of a regular .50 2 stroke, I could be wrong. When I was taxing, I hit the throttle to full for a second or 2 and the PC-9 really moved fast on the ground. I agree with ya, no matter what .40 I use it will be under powered. I'm just trying to get this thing in the air, I been having it for a year. Maybe I should buy another kit for this .40 and put the PC-9 on hold till I get a bigger engine.

With a Saito .72 I bet your PC-9 really goes vertical!!


Thanks again.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Hi Jim,

All the engines I have are with the air-bleed setup, I don't have any engines with the conventional setup. I believe the main needle being lower then the fueltank was causing it to flood out. I'm not certain, I haven't worked on the plane since the day I went to the airport, time is short here. I may put this PC-9 on hold for now until I can get a bigger engine and buy another kit for this .40...

Thanks for the advice.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

to Pearl 414,

The OS LA 40 and 46 are fine motors provided you don't want to do anything fancy, they are great on things like a Phoenix Classic or a Black Horse Twister. Never seen them called a sport engine, they are pretty basic. The OS 46ax or Thunder Tiger pro 46 are much more powerfull and versatile motors. With a low wing aircraft you don't have the floating characteristics of a high wing and need to pull them around with much more authority. I have seen the PC9 flown very nicely with an OS 46AX and a TT 46 Pro at the front.
My son flies the PC9 and he now has the power to fly inverted do loops rolls etc etc and the plane sounds like it means business. We are running a 13 x 8 prop on it and it really performs very well. With the 40la if you want something that can be thrown about a Black Horse Twister is well within the engine power rating @ 25 / 32 two stroke, we have one and had a 46LA in it and it went ok, now has a 52 magnum FS in it. I can't stress this enough read the instruction manual that comes with the engine and aircraft and operate within the manufacturers specifications and you won't go far wrong. The are lots of questions asked in this medium that don't need to be asked because all the answers are in the manuals. I can't see your PC9 lasting very long if you try to fly it with the LA40, you would need to lean the enging right out to get the power to get it off the ground and lean engines run hot and don't last long. Buy a Twister or a Classic and you will get a lot of fun and a reasonable life span for your motor

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Hi Delta,

I understand you point that a .40 is under-powered. I also understand that the manual says this model can fly with a .40. I been flying rc planes for 20 years and I know for a FACT this plane will fly with a .40. I'm not trying to send this PC-9 to the moon. All I wanna do is basic flying, loops, rolls, not much more.

I'm still having fueltank probs, I put the tank on the bottom of the fuselage and still won't act right. I took the engine off my PC-9 and inserted on another rc plane I have and runs great, no probs at all, so I know it's the PC-9 fueltank. I'll try it with a Perry pump, if it doesn't work as it should, I'll turn the PC-9 into greenhouse gas.

Corey

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

I've seen a guy at the club flying the PC9 with a OS 46 AX with tuned pipe and APC 10 x 6, man that's a ballistic plane.

I agree with some of the comments posted here, concerning the OS 40 LA engine you put to the plane it will hardly pull that plane even for take off, forget about loops,rolls etc.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Alcarafa, this plane is giving me probs with the fueltank, once that is done, I'll prove this plane can do basic loops and rolls with an O.S. .40. If it can takeoff with a .40 it can do loops and rolls. This .40 will have a 11x5 attached. I fly planes that weight 10 lbs. with a .40 all day long. I'll PM you when the video is done, HD camera on the way soon. I been in this RC game to long.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Hi Pearl,

I have two 46 LA motors and would not attempt to fly my PC9 with those. I have seen a Kyosho Calmato low wing plane flown with a 46 LA and a 10 x something prop. Will fly but not with a lot of authority. As for the LA 40 in the PC9 the only way you would get enough power is to run a 10 x something prop and run the motor at maximum revs. Not a good idea. I have always found it better to have a little to much power than not enough and I didn't set out to have a ballistic aircraft when I put the 72FS in the front of mine. The 52FS and the 54FS just didn't give the plane any authority in the sky and you will struggle with it. The pane now flies very well, lots of authority and will do all the moves without problem, will be very interested to see any video you put on here after flying with the 40 LA because I think you would be able to walk faster than the plane will fly.

The 46AX ot TT46 Pro will pull it around very nicely and you should be able to do anything you want with it, these engines are much more powerfull than the 40LA. Good luck because with that little motor you are going to need it.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Hey Delta3,

Most people like their rc planes to have plenty of power and others don't. I've been flying rc planes for a very long time, some 20 years. 98% of the planes I've flown in that time period have been well under-powered. I like under-powered planes cause it makes for longer takeoffs and more scale flight. A rc plane that is highly powered and takesoff's within a couple feet does not impress me. I like planes that barely takeoff and are highly under-powered. This plane will have an 11x5/6 not a 10x5/6. 10x5/6 is to small of a prop.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.


A friend of mine said in order to use a Perry pump on this engine, he would have to tap into the engine somewhere for it to get fuel. I'm not a mechanic so, if this PC-9 piece of crap from Vietnam keeps going it's way with the fuel, I'm gonna throw it in the trash. I didn't buy a ARF like the PC-9 so I had to modify the fueltank location, I bought it so it could be flown, not worked on. I'm considering buying the Hangar 9 Corsair .60 ARF and hopefully have a better kit, something that requires a pilot and not a chainsaw. I'll do major research on the H9 Corsair before giving them my money. I learned my lesson with the PC-9, don't jump the gun before buying a rc kit.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Hi Pearl,

My PC9 takes plenty of time to get off the ground with the 72 FS at the front, as I said before when we put the plane together we had a Magnum 52FS in the front and the plane flew but that is all it would do, if you tried to do a loop or roll it would fall out of the move. We then moved on to a Thunder Tiger 54FS and that was marginally better. We only fitted the 72 because we are trying to get our Gold Wings and the plane needed some authority and the previously mentioned motors just didn't do it. I too like planes to fly in a scale like manner and I can assure you the the PC 9 is not a plane to fly slowly with, if you want to do that sort of thing the a Great Planes PT19 will do the job, mine flies very nicely with a 48 OS FS up front. It is a putt putt type aircraft that just flies nice and slowly and is impressive in the sky. I am not by any means a speed merchant, my planes include a P26 Peashooter, a Taylorcraft (both with 120 FS motors) a Phoenix Tiger 60 and a Black Horse T28D Trojan(both with 90FS motors). My son flies Pylon racers I don't . They are way to fast and noisy for me. I have several scale planes in the cupboard. So speed is not what I am all about. The general consensus in this forum appears to be that the PC9 will not fly with a 40LA motor up front and I would think that the fuel problem has as much to do with the engine as anything else. The engines I have fitted have all worked just fine in the inverted position, there was never a fuel related problem and the tank sits exactly where it was designed to sit with no alterations. The props used were all within normal ranges and the 72 FS does not do allow the plane to hang on the prop or anything like that.

I have seen a PC9 fly, we have a RAAF team here called the Roulettes that have these planes, they do not fly slowly so you may have the wrong idea about flying a PC9 in a scale like manner, they are fast, they are manouverable, just the shape of them should tell you that, they will loop and roll and do all moves, they fly in formation and are a wonderfull aircraft. Rather than waste a plane like that with a motor like the LA40 post it to me and I will put the right motor into it and fly it like it is meant to be flown. Just for the record I have been flying for around 10 years, so I am not new at this. The PC 9 is not meant to fly at warp speed but it needs to be pulled around at a speed somewhat faster than a snail crawling across concrete or it will just stall and fall out of the sky. You have inspired me to take my spare PC9 out of the cupboard and build it. It to will have a Saito 72 in the nose and will fly beautifully unlike yours which I see ending up as a mass of toothpicks in a big plastic bag simply because 20 years of experience doesn't seem to have taught you a great deal. You can not fly planes that are designed to fly relatively quickly at slow speeds. Without the fast flow of air over the wings they will not stay in the sky for very long. That is why fighter jets with small wings need to move very quickly, to keep airflowing over the wings and create lift

Thats my opinion and in a democracy I am entitled to have that opinion.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

I accept your opinion, not 1 time have I said I wanted this PC-9 to fly slow, I never said that ever, I said I wanted it to be under powered. If this plane does 300 m.p.h. thats fine with me, as long as it's under powered I'm happy.

Also, I have seen many PC-9 owners say they had to customize the fueltank location because it would flood the engine. I'm by far, not the only person with this fueltank problem.

Seagull manual says this plane can fly with a .40, perhaps they meant the .40 turbine. If this plane doesn't fly with a .40, it will be the 1st plane in my 20 years that weighs between 5 and 6 lbs that a .40 couldn't carry, reguardless of the design.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Pearl

I accept that this is what you want to do with your pc9, cant change that but, if it was me i would research the brand of .40 motor that was used in the testing phase. They may have used a ttpro 40 or OS .40 ax or fx, something a little more sporty. These would be my preference. Even a GMS .40 but i dont know whether you can get them in america, they retail in aus for under $100aud.

In relation to scale flying the real PC9 has a turboprop engine. They do not fly at warp speed but do fly reasonably fast. As a point of interest they ar essentially a square aeroplane. 12m wingspan by 12m fuse.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

Hello Delta:

I've seen the Roulettes fly and the PC9 is quite quick.

In Wikeipedia I looked up the speed of the PC9 and compared to an Extra 300 and the Mustrang P51D

The PC9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-9

Maximum speed: 320kts (576km/h or 360 mph) or 667km/h for PC-9M


The Extra 300
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_300

Never exceed speed: 408 km/h (220 kt)
Cruise speed: 317 km/h (170 kt)

For the sake of completeness as from Wikipedia, P51D Mustang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang
Maximum speed: 437 mph (703 km/h) at 25,000 ft (7,620 m)
Cruise speed: 362 mph (580 km/h)

Bye, Ian

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

I was considering buying another kit like the H9 P-47 Thunderbolt or the H9 Corsair .60's but they both need modifications after it's built. Mod's include firewall, new retracts, rudder and blah blah.

Think I'll fight this PC-9 a lil longer. The 2 stroke I have certainly doesn't run on this plane and the fueltank is as low as it can possibly go. I may get a 4-stroke from O.S. or Saito installed with a perry pump, if it doesn't work, then I'll give up.

RE: Seagull PC-9 Help
 

To pearl 414

Im glad to hear that you will keep working on this plane as they are wonderful to fly. If you not keen on a bigger saito .72 then maybe the .61 or .56. If not saito then an OS .56 alpha or .70 ultimate.

I would try without the perry pump first and see how you go. Mine does not have the pump and it runs fine. A littie hint though when you are starting the engine leave the glow starter on for 5 to 6 seconds before turning the engine over. I find it starts easier that way. If all else fails install the perry pump.

I find that prop selection is critical and i spend a fair amount of time on this while setting the plane up. Sometimes i get it right the first time and other times i may change the prop 2 or 3 times till i feel comfortable with how it flies. Along with prop selection setting the travel rates on the control surfaces is critical. The travel rate on mine is set at 85% of the total servo travel with dual rate being 125% of this travel rate. Still have another 15% i can open up the travel on but this is enough at the moment.

Regards