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Smallest Gas Plane!
Hi,
I would like to get a gas plane because glow fuel is really eating up my wallet. What are some of the smallest gas planes I can buy? Would these be 60 size planes or can it go any smaller like a 40 size? I would like them to be ARF and maybe a CAP or an EDGE so that I can do aerobatics with. Also what are some of small gas engines can I use? thanks, Vu |
Smallest Gas Plane!
Vu, the RCS and MVVS gas engines are very good and some of the smallest out there. I have the MVVS 1.60Gas engine on a H9 Cap. The unfortunite thing about small gas engines is their lack of power for the size plane they are made to go in. Mt 12.5# cap will not hover at any thing less that near full power. If you want the small (23-26cc) gas engines to perform well you need to put them in a plane of 10 pounds or less in my opinion. there are several out there in the .60-.90 size planes; but you may have to add weight to get them to balance with the heavier gas engines than the midsize glows they are designed for.
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check out another thread
For some alternate engine options, check out 'do not forget Echo'
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...hreadid=695908] |
Smallest Gas Plane!
I'm not too familair with gas engines.
Can yall post some websites where I can buy gas engines for a 60 size plane? Also why is that gas engines has less power than glow engines? How do I know if an engine would fit a 60 size airplane? Not too familair with the difference between 40,60,120, ect. size and **cc engines, if yall know what I mean. I only know that a 40 size fit a 40 size airplane and ect...... |
Smallest Gas Plane!
go to morris website 1.60 gas @ $390ish
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Not an exper. but
Originally posted by vuaim I'm not too familair with gas engines. Also why is that gas engines has less power than glow engines? Originally posted by vuaim How do I know if an engine would fit a 60 size airplane? Finally, and very important, the weight your overall plane, including the engine. You can compute the "wing loading" and compare wit the expected for your type of plane . Also must check if plane center of gravity is coming out as designed with your engine weight Originally posted by vuaim Not too familair with the difference between 40,60,120, ect. size and **cc engines, if yall know what I mean. I only know that a 40 size fit a 40 size airplane and ect...... .40 = 6.55cc .60 = 9.83cc 1.20 = 19.67cc Good luck, Edgar |
Smallest Gas Plane!
Originally posted by crashNburnin go to morris website 1.60 gas @ $390ish Good grief. The price you pay for a little weight loss... You can get G-62 for a bit more... Or a Fuji 50, or ..... Of course, you'll need to go to a larger airfame for those... :) I've been looking VERY hard at going strictly small gas, versus glow or even electric. Like anything, there are pros and cons involved. Gas engines are usually MUCH cheaper to run in the long haul, just on fuel alone. spark plugs are cheaper than glow plugs. Props are about the same as bigger glow engines (16x8 average). For most planes, I'd recommend soft mounts of some sort, but you should do that with bigger glow engines anyway. There's a company out of Pasedena TX (GBM or some such) that does 25cc gassers for $210.00 That's what I call small cheap gas. Yes, a bit heavier than the Morris 1.60, but half the price (almost). Admittedly, the glow exhaust smells better than the gas, though two stroke smell doesn't bother me. my 1.5 cents, phil in austin |
Smallest Gas Plane!
Don't forget diesel. Many glow engines can be converted and will produce more torque at a lower RPM level. No more glow plugs and diesel in generally less expensive than gas.
The other option is electric. While batteries cost a little more up front, the run times are getting longer and the performance is comparable to glow. Mark M |
Smallest Gas Plane!
My only complaint about diesel is the 'ook' that gets on the plane, that and model diesel fuel is a bit hard to get, unless you mix your own.
They are really neat engines, quiet, and can swing some really big props with no problems. No ignition needed, either. There is a learning curve with them, like anything else. It's an option.... phil in austin |
Smallest Gas Plane!
Phil,
The few guys that used diesel at our field used to run pipes all the way to the rear of the plane to get rid of the mess. They used regular pump diesel, I don't know if there was anything done to the fuel afterwards. I do know they were always clipping fingers due to the prop jumping backwards while starting. Vu, I just thought of another option. Buy your fuel bulk. I purchased 50+ gallons and received a very good discount. I had 40 gallons sold before I placed the order and had it delivered to the loading dock at my office. Plus, my fuel lasts a lot longer once I learned how to use the left stick (throttle). A pattern pilot showed me how much fuel was wasted the way I was flying. Maybe you've already figured this one out though. :confused: Mark |
Smallest Gas Plane!
Thanks for info guys,
I'm still looking for a gas engine that can pull a 90 size Edge or something simmilar!!! I really don't want to go any bigger than that cause you know how much it's going to cost. A giant scale airplane is not going to be cheap, considering the total cost comes out to about $2000. I'm not willing to spend that much money on an airplane right now. It's pretty much equal a down payment on a house. HEHE But still, having a gas plane would be nice and it would save on fuel in the long run!!! I'm trying out with electric planes now to see how that's going to be like!!! |
Re: Not an exper. but
Originally posted by guaraguao Glow fuel has more energy per volume than gasoline. Glow engines are more efficient at extracting that energy. Actually its the other way around. Gasoline has a higher energy density that methanol does. However, methanol burns in a much richer air/fuel ratio than gas (14-1 for gas, 7or 8 -1 for alc I think). The end result is that even though burning alcohol produces less energy, a given volume of air burns so much more alcohol that the engine makes more power than it does on gas. |
Smallest Gas Plane!
so did u ever get an idea on which/what might be your smallest gas plane?????????????????
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Smallest Gas Plane!
Well right now, I'm looking at an Edge 90 or something similar, maybe a 120 size plane! I would like to put a 23cc engine on it, hopefully I can find one cause any bigger, then I would have to worry about the CG and weight problems.
Anywho, Maybe I'll wait until a company decides to make an economic small size gas engine! The way I look at it right now, the smallest gas engine I can get is a 23cc or 34cc engine, and those aren't too small. |
Smallest Gas Plane!
There is a company that makes gas conversion kits for glow engines.
http://www.nelsonhobby.com They have converted the ST 91 and 2300 with the stock carbs. Pretty cool stuff, but then you add the weight of the ignition. The smaller you go, the more that is a factor. Jim! |
Smallest Gas Plane!
thanks for the website Jim!
I will definitely keep this option in my mind! How's the power though if you convert your glow engines to gas engines? I would think these engines run on desiel fuel, right? |
Smallest Gas Plane!
THe conversion allows the engine to run on gas. You install a hall sensor and spark plug kit and with the ST-91 ans 2300, can use the same carb.
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Smallest Gas Plane!
Just as a point of interest, I have the RCS 140 and it will spin an 18/6 faster than my OS120 Surpass III, but the Surpass will spin a 16/6 faster than the RCS. I also have the MVVS 160 and I think it's junk. It does not have the power of the RCS 140, it will not hand start, it's on its 3rd ignition unit, and has lousy throttle response when it does decide to run. The RCS is in a Kangke Monocoupe and its a good match for the plane.
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Smallest Gas Plane!
Several people have brought out good points...
But let me add my 2 cents worth... I like the RCS engines from RC Showcase ... Perhaps the lightest gas engine out there... But you'll want to put it in a 120 size plane... And when you say "maybe wait"... don't bother... Various reason why they can't them much smaller... and it really doesn't matter. I feel the bigger a plane is the better it flies... So why "smush" yourself in a 90 size plane and try and fit it with gas (resulting in a high wingloading and flying like a rock with ankleweights) If cost is your reason, then realize that a larger gas will pay for itself in a season of flying year over a glow engine in fuel and cleanup costs. If portability is your reason, then realize that the GP Patty Wagstaff, for instance, isn't MUCH bigger in length than 120 size planes AND the wings are 2 piece... Why am I so adamant about going gas? I just flew my first one... an Aeroworks 33% edge 540T and now I am GAS crazy... I have a ZDZ50 waiting for something... perhaps a 70" Challenger III bipe (plans) or the GP Extra... They run so much more reliably, and run clean and cheap. I can go down the street and get a day's fuel supply for $2.00 and I don;t have to wipe gooey snot off my plane. And it FLOATS... I wouldn't have believed it, but it doesn't fly heavy like most 120 sixe planes do... It feels almost like a funfly. So, from a gas newbie... do yourself a "big" favor... go a little bigger on the plane and engine and enjoy a rockin' combination. Dollar for Dollar? The GP Wagstaff Extra and ZDZ50.... Originally posted by vuaim thanks for the website Jim! I will definitely keep this option in my mind! How's the power though if you convert your glow engines to gas engines? I would think these engines run on desiel fuel, right? |
Smallest Gas Plane!
I am running a MVVS 1.6 in a rebuilt (crashed) Sig Cap 232 arf. All up weight is 12.5 pounds, the combo is a joy to fly ( for my style - sport flying with basic) aerobatics.
After 3 gallons of fuel I am still running rich and turing a bolly 16x10 at 7800-7900. The engine has the old Valch ignition but has performed fine. I also have bought a used RCS 1.4 that I will install in the 1/4 scale Lanier Laser 200 - hopefully test flight in early June. Any one with performance data on the RCS 1.4 or MVVS 1.6 please email me at [email protected] with your info, I would like to add the info to my web site on the small gassers at http://www.sportrc.com/smallgassers.html cheers http://www.sportrc.com/gasserphotos/rcsmvvs_001.jpg |
Small Gassers
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Smallest Gas Plane!
It has been alluded to here directly and indirectly. There is an irrefutable fact of life about planes and gas engines. Especially 3D planes and gas engines.
In order for a small gas engine to provide full aerobatic capability it needs to be in a plane no heavier than around 9 pounds and the lighter the better. The problem is very few 9 pound planes are big enough to hold or balance correctly with a gas engine in them. The industry has not yet solved this simple problem of getting enough power out of small gas engines to fly the available planes. Even the RCS/MVVS style engines pretty much need a 1.20 size plane. and they most weigh in the12-13 pound range. |
Smallest Gas Plane!
agree with steve.
I was out with the Sig Cap232 last night, tweaked the MVVS 1.6 a bit, now turning the Bolly 16x10 at 8000 - 8100rpm. I like the combination for my style of aerobatic flying (non 3d). I hear that the Menz S 17x8 may be a good prop, I'll have to track one down. --ken |
Smallest Gas Plane!
Go gas 1/4 scale! If your spending so much on glow fuel your flying alot and the savings over a season will be the differance between a big glow and a bigger gas. Besides bigger flies better and don't forget how much you'll save on paper towels and cleaner!
Forget electric, while they are getting better they are as much as a glow plane (for high performance) and the really hitech batteries are only good for about 100 cycles...you'll spend more in the long run. 1/4 scale gas....look for something used to start out with. I'm saving so much I might have to go buy another one! Richard |
Smallest Gas Plane!
gasoline engines are fun and the 140 RCS seems to be the pick of the litter for small stuff-
2300 size. the power -a at best -is about like a OS1.2 four stroke -and weight with ignition a bit more - props - 16x8 are about right - APC probably the best. tuned pipe does help -at least don't clog it off with some tiny muffler! ideal allup weight - 10 lbs or less and you get nice performance- we fly an11 lb pattern plane -our own design with ZDZ40 rear exhaust and this is a wild setup - 10 lbs with the RCS140 is NOT the same performance but is very good. I am sorely tempted to take an ELAN and add the 140 -going for under 9 lbs - this should work just dandy . |
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