init4fun

Ok , I guess my sarcastic approach seemed a bit more extreme than I meant it to , It was actually an attempt at humor and I don't take this NEARLY as seriously as you seem to have read into it . I was gonna find a clip of Daffy Duck screaming "Super Duck !!!" in response to the supercapacitor ! claim of the gent you posted the video of but figured I'd took the off beat humor a bit too far already .

But on a serious note , I have spent considerable time searching and reading all about Graphene technology as applied to batteries ever since this thread was first posted last month . I have a fairly extensive electronics background and have followed the up and coming technologies for years . It is a solid consensus of all of the reputable scientific sources I've read that have said that while this shows great promise , it's not quite yet ready for mass market . Thus there is just no way possible that what HK is selling could be what they advertise it to be , a true "graphene" battery !

Just as with the Philco Transitone , this is bunk . In this case it isn't "fake transistors" , it's a larger pack with a smaller rating , advertised to be something it's not . And the FTC ? Come on , if they wouldn't lift a finger when literally tens of thousands were being ripped off by an American company on fake transistor radios what makes you think they'd waste their time chasing a Chinese hobby shop making dubious claims about a product that likely won't even see fractional numbers of the sales Philco transitone radios did ? Methinks they've got their hands (and wallets ) full chasing the likes of the Takata corporation (exploding automobile airbags) and Volkswagen (Dirty diesels programmed to run clean during emissions tests) . Yeppers , HK is too small of taters for the big boys to go after , so we are left with the false advertising of a "superbattery" that really in the light of day ain't all that super after all .

Now please , before you post here again , do a serious and honest search of the graphene technology , and then ask yourself how HK could possibly accomplish what millions of research dollars have yet to .....

topspin

No we won't let that happen even though we all know that is exactly what you want.

Init4fun made the point that there are huge corporations with enough assets to buy Hobby King out of petty cash that are working on real graphene batteries. They are all saying the real grapheme batteries will be smaller and lighter ( not bigger and heavier) and will provide a significant increase in power storage capability. These mega companies are talking about lithium graphene sulpher batteries that will store ten times the current of todays Lipos at a fraction of the weight.

So it just seems too obvious that not only has Hobby King managed to do what Tesla, Sanyo, and other large corporations have been unable to do, but their wunder battery is bigger and heavier vice smaller and lighter.

It says graphene on the label and that is as far as it goes.

This video bears repeating because this is the only one where someone who understands how lithium batteries are constructed actually takes one apart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBy4eoDVp_g

raptureboy

One of our club members brought one in to our meeting the other day to show us. 3 cell 6500 mah was a 1/3 bigger than a comparable Nano Tech and weighed 4 oz more. He is an engineer so he's testing them to see what they are like. You should see the box they come in, I have bought fine scotch that came in cheaper boxes. A big black hard cardboard box with a magnetic catch, with a custom foam insert, and the battery in a velvet bag like a bottle of chivas regal. He paid $30 in shipping for 2 batteries shipped from the motherland. The word truth is not in the Chinese vocabulary in the sense that we use it. Once you understand that then you can choose your poison with confidence.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Quite the contrary and I think you know that, I think an exchange of information in this and any thread is better than the usual name calling and accusations and personal attacks. Folks should look at all of the information, even if it doesn't fit their own personal narrative. I think this is one of those "prove it" kind of situations don't you? Between this thread and the others you have posted other links about this issue in, you clearly doubt the "hype". Buy a battery and have it tested by a professional, not some Youtube personality. What is holding you back form doing this, or anyone else for that matter? It would seem like if you caught them lying, you would finally have some conclusive proof of their nefarious activities. I'd be the first one to say atta boy and suggest them being sued, then civilly penalized.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

My apologies, when I read things like I should be ashamed, and unwaivering bias, trash, and now telling me what to do before I post here again was mistaken as patronizing, not sarcastic humor. I have been corrected.
My spologies

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Great information about the packaging, will be interested to hear the results of the testing, as well as how the testing was done. Does your friend hold the same xenophobic view about the Chinese "motherland" and their vocabulary? There are actually 10 words/symbols that represent truth in the Chinese language, all pretty much on point. Perhaps he was aware of that.

init4fun

Sorry buddy but what you posted was BS , and it sure did look from here like you were holding up the supercapacitor guy as your proof that HK's magic battery was for real . Nice attempt at the backpedal there I must say . Now , as to telling you what to do , I suggested you read the same Google search articles I read before you further make your self look like someone with their head in the sand because conventional industry wisdom as late as ONE MONTH ago has it that this technology is not yet perfected to the degree of marketability . DID you do the search I suggested you do , the search that would prove without taking even one battery apart that these are NOT what HK is selling them as ? Nope , you came right back here with sarcastic intent of your own rather than do a simple google search that would prove your on the wrong side of this discussion . Yep , we're all big bad meanies picking on poor poor porcia's favorite hobby store , is that really how your gonna play this rather than just do the damn search and actually have to face the truth that your beloved HK is pulling a slimy marketing ploy using the industry's latest buzzword ?

And now , since this is going around in circles , I will ask ALL readers here to do their own search of graphine technology and draw your own conclusion as to whether or not there are actual "graphene supercells" for sale by HK or not . My research so far indicates not ......

raptureboy

I have a very good friend who has lived in China for the last 7 years and married a Chinese national. He, and she will tell you the same thing. Nearly 75 years of communist rule and corruption has left a society largely devoid of truth. Truth is in the eyes of the individual and they see no problem with being less than honest. Just look at all the products we get that are recalled because some manufacturer decided to cut corners and substitute poisonous ingredients in our dog food, baby milk etc. I personally like Hobby King and the few times I have had an issue I just threaten to file a complaint with papal and that solves the issue rather quickly. If I get any news about the testing of these batteries I will check in.

init4fun

Yesterday , when this fun little chit chat ended , I decided that since I had a bit of time to kill , I'd do a little more research on Graphene battery technology , rather than spend all afternoon posting witty prose in the AMA forum . Here's what a quick search turned up ;

Samsung , you know them , right ? Tiny little electronics manufacturer with only fractional sales compared to the mighty HK ? Yea , THAT Samsung ......

WELL !

It appears they are eagerly awaiting 2017's or 2018's rollout of their Graphene battery powered cellphones ! Tech Times reports that there are still a couple of details to be worked out with the YET TO BE MARKETED new battery technology , and they hope to have it market ready by 2018 at the latest ....

OH !

Then , There's Tesla , you know , the electric car company headed by billionaire Elon Musk ? (hope I got his name right)

SO !

It seems Mr. Musk is investing millions to bring real Graphene batteries to his lineup of electric cars , but alas it's predicted it'll be 3 to 5 years before his Graphene battery powered cars hit the road , Gee wiz , think maybe HK might share a little of their "secret sauce" with him so we won't have to wait so long to enjoy a true Graphene driving experience ?

AND !!!!

It seems several scam companies have already been busted for selling bogus "Graphene futures" for what that article called "This yet to be field tested new battery technology"

HMMM , all that , and still there are some SO dedicated that they think the Emperor's new clothes just look simply divine !


Anyone ELSE do any reading about Graphene battery technology lately ?

topspin

I have been following Graphene research for a couple of years and have recently read that several companies are only a couple of years away from releasing graphene power cells. The chump change companies, Samsung and Tesla aside, we're talking the trillion dollar RC hobby shop market here, looks like we can expect these new batteries to be capable of charging in seconds, and have vastly more power storage and discharge capability than current Lithium Ion batteries.


All I know is, Hobby King is simply writing graphene on the shrink wrap of fat batteries and putting them in little velvet sacks and boxes with a magnet latch, man, that's high tech.

FWIW, I had a couple of Transitone radios at one time and still have one on my shelf here in the office, my other Philco radios are all 1930's models. The little Transitone radio sounds good since I replaced all the caps in it and I can tell you there aint no transitstors in that sucker anywhere.

init4fun

Aw , it's cute !

Does it use Octals , or Philco's best vacuum tube invention ever (honestly) the Loctal ?

I can say not once ever have I seen a Loctal tube fall out of it's socket . And replacing capacitors ? On run of the mill "daily drivers" I just outright replace them regardless of looks . But on anything with a value exceeding $500 what I do is actually gut the old housings and mount the new caps inside to 100% preserve the original looks of the set . I don't remember if I've posted these before or not but here are a few shots of a capacitor "restuff" in process .

Oh and the Graphene batteries ?

One article I read offered the prediction that when they are actually perfected and deployed in electric cars , that breakthrough will be the end of Oil's hold on the transportation industry by eliminating the need entirely of today's gas/electric powertrains .

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Until the infrastructure for readily charging is in place solely electric vehicles are still not going to be mainstream. If I'm traveling 600 miles I want to be able to fill and go and until the service stations along the way are capable of providing a quick charge long distance travel is not going to be mainstream. If you have an individual dwelling home charging is an option but what if you live in a city apartment style. I don't see many apartment complexes upgrading the infrastructure to charge 100 or more electric vehicles. Batteries are but one of many considerations and problems that must be solved before the electric vehicle becomes mainstream. Solar road beds and induction charging of EV's are in they're infancy but show possibilities. Again it all comes down to infrastructure it’s hard to beat the corner gas station that has been around for decades.

Dennis

topspin

Hey thank you for the photos, I bet can do that and I have a radio that I just might try that with if I can find caps that will fit inside the can. My little Philco was made in 1941 but sold as a 42 model, it was cheap then and I don't think it's worth much today. Anyway, it does use the Philco loctal tubes, all American fiver and no can. The filter is a two section paper cap in a clip under the back of the chassis, easy to replace. I replaced all the paper caps and one resistor also and it plays like new, sounds pretty good for a cheap radio.

I just finished the cleanup on this old National and as soon as I finish repainting the logo it goes on the bench. Probably going to take a while for this one but it will be nice when I get done with it. The NC-173 (not this one) was my very first receiver in 1965. I was a novice and worked stations all over the world on one just like it and a 45 watt Johnson Adventurer transmitter.

aspeed

Hi Dennis, I read a few decades ago that electric feasability would only work if all manufacturers would go with one standard battery pack that could be inserted, say, from underneath with a forklift or dolly, at a "gas station" They would be recharged there and a fresh charge would be sold as an exchange for long trips. Otherwise for normal driving it would be charged at home. That was when lead acid was the way to go.. I can not see this happening in the near future with all the different types of batteries and companies. The infrastructure of high voltage charging stations near a gas station would not go over well with the safety guys.

topspin

From what I've seen on the forums if Hobby King graphene's have anything to do with the electric car scene it will require a forklift to change them since they are heavier than any other batteries in the same class.

I understand that Toyota is sinking mega bucks into fuel cell technology that might be able to power an electric vehicle for a month or more. Don't know how far away that is but it will happen, we can count on that. I am certain that at the point where electric vehicles reach parity with IC autos then the infrastructure will change but only when it is profitable.

init4fun

Ok , amazing history lesson time !

As I've already told you in a different thread some time ago I never got into the ham radio hobby . Since I have no memories or data for your NC-173 I looked it up , just as I always look up all radios that folks show me , just to see things like bands covered and tube content and so on . Kinda the same way a motorhead always wants to see what's under the hood .....

Well ! Before I got to tech specs I found out something quite special about your NC-173 !

Did you know , that a highly modified NC-173 accompanied a Mr. Thor Heyerdahl on his voyage aboard the raft "Kon Tiki" and was actually instrumental in his getting off of an uninhabited south seas island when the Kon Tiki became shipwrecked ?

In the book he wrote about the adventure ; "Kon Tiki" (Rand McNally 1950) on page 263 , he describes drying out the radio enough to make it functional and aid in his making contact with his team , and thus averting a widescale search being initiated . The article I read talked about the modifications done to it to make it run with reduced B+ being supplied by dry cells and low voltage battery type tubes (the kinds with one volt filament type cathodes used in the portables of the day such as the Zenith Transoceanic) that draw very little heater current .

Gotta love google ....

topspin

Actually I did know that and because of it I read the book when I was 15. It was a very interesting story and Thor Heyerdahl was not only a scientist but a real adventurer. According to some old timers who knew about the expedition the NC-173 was battery powered so they removed the power transformer, rectifier tube and socket, and the filter cap to save weight and you are correct, they did change the tube lineup and also got rid of the OD3 regulator, no need for that. The whole thing got soaked (in saltwater no less) and they had to rinse it and let it dry but it worked. The backup transmitter was a hand cranked Gibson Girl that they used because the main unit was damaged when it got wet.

The National gave a good account of itself under some pretty harsh conditions, all I know is mine never let me down. I wish I had never sold it but such is life so when I saw this one I jumped on it. I hope it works as well as my old one did but we have to remember that my original was only 15 years old in 1965 when I got it.

The NC-173 is a marvelous old radio with a lot of fond memories, can't wait to get it back on the air. I'll use it more for shortwave listening than anything else. I have modern ham equipment but I also have a 1948 Harvey Wells Bandmaster transmitter (a TBS-50C) that I restored so I'll probably use them together at least a few times to relive the good old days.

init4fun

That's great that you knew about the NC-173's voyage on the Kon Tiki , It's little bits of the history like that behind these products we collect that I like to preserve whenever possible , were that radio mine I'd proudly display a copy of Mr. Heyerdahl's book right alongside it . "The rest of the story" as it were . One cool piece I obtained during my European travels is a Minox model B subminature camera , A spy camera with a somewhat colorful Spy history . The original pre WW2 Minox Riga manufactured in Latvia is worth a small fortune but even my post war model with it's later added flashcube adapter is said to be somewhat "collectable" . I just liked it because I'd never seen a real camera so small and bought it for really short money ($20) at a huge "sidewalk sale" just before leaving France . It's normally displayed sitting next to my fully functional 1923 Kodascope model C 16 MM movie projector (another restoration project not for the easily frustrated , that's for sure) .

PS , yes that is a regular sized Bic lighter in the Minox photos , and it only needs the flash attachment in very low light .

The film the 1923 projector is showing was filmed in the late 1950s in Florida ....

topspin

The Minox is too cool, looks like something James Bond would have used but it is definitely the smallest film camera I have ever seen. That projector is really old, I didn't know they made them that long ago. I wonder if you could even get 16mm film or a motion picture camera that uses it? Can you still get lamps for it?

Oh yeah, what kind of film does the Minox use? Can you get it?

init4fun

It's funny , I have all these strange working antiques , and in reality it's the old radios that are my #1 collecting interest . All the other things I have are things that turned up in old radio searches that looked too good to pass up . I've got several antique cameras such as the Minox and have never tried to get film for the still shot cameras because I believe it to be out of production , especially in the Minox' example as it came in little cartridges that are of course now unobtainum .

Now as to the 16 MM stuff , Well ! There is still a "cult following" of all things film , and along with that 16 MM projector I've got a fairly high end 16 MM movie camera from a company called Eumig . Most of the demonstration film I have to show through the Kodascope is very old home movies that don't belong to me and came with the projector . So since 16 MM film is still available I shot a couple of rolls through the camera just to have my own footage to show through the projector . One of my reels is of a fly in at my local small town airfield .

Anyway , the Eumig , and the "money shot" i meant to include earlier of the Kodascope , one of it actually running ....

Maxximize

What I'd like to see are more batteries that are safer and offer high amounts of energy density for their size. Currently, LiFe packs are all there is that is safer than LiPo, but the high discharge ones are getting harder to find these days and have less energy density than LiPo. I personally run nothing but LiFe packs in all my trucks electric and nitro due to the safety advantages, but I don't think many others out there do. If they could make LiFe cells with higher voltage and capacity, they'd have a winner.

aspeed

I had a lot of trouble with LiPo batteries in my first plane, I drained it down too far before I even flew it, fire etc. I will not go into it. A bad launch with a new set of batteries, it has still not flown. Nevertheless, I thought I would go A123 on the next plane for safety/less hassle reasons. I had an Amptique which is really just a glider that was quite heavy with 6 Nicads and would barely gain altitude. The glides were like a homesick devil. With a 2 cell A123 it works quite well. It needed the noseweight a bit and the 2 cell works enough to make it perform acceptably. A 3 cell LiPo melted the end bell on the motor and caused a crash, just pressuring me to go to the 2 cell, and A123. I agree that the weight and energy problems would be a great solution. Maybe the Graphene? Locally at the University of Waterloo, they were experimenting with a sulfur/carbon nano battery. I have not heard of any breakthroughs there, as it was maybe 8 years ago. I guess sulfur stores energy, but does not conduct it, or something, but they were making small particles and mixing it with carbon. Maybe it was one group's project, and they graduated university, and that was the end. Anyway, the reason I subscribed to this thread is because I thought this may be similar to the carbon/sulfur idea. Maybe lithium/carbon(grahene) is better? Likely not any cheaper though.

Maxximize

I'm with ya there aspeed. It seems kind of strange that we have been stuck with LiPo as the dominant chemistry for as long as we have now. I've personally only ever melted down a 6S NiCD battery, but that was by far less scary than what a LiPo can do if it grenades I never even tried LiPo and just went straight form NiMH to LiFe. With the advances in electric and hybrid car batteries, I'd have thought there would be multiple competing chemistries out there for RC use. But we're still stuck with LiPo, or NiMH. LiFe looked poised to take over second place behind LiPo a few years ago, and now I have to hunt down the 2s and 3s 30-40c packs. I think NiCD packs are more common these days. The only ones I currently have aside from 2S RX packs are Zippy Flightmax 2100's for the Lunchbox, and Maxamps 1050's for the Mini Revo. What sucks even more is aside from the Maxamps ones, I have to solder connectors on every one I buy. It's almost like the everyone gave up on the chemistry before it really had a chance to take off.

aspeed

There are still some LiFe batteries around for the monster gas motors, they are good because they can run the receivers and motor electronics at a lower voltage than LiPos. They have otherwise been passed by though as you say. They would be tougher on cars. I still have a case shell from a sub C nicad battery that exploded at a race back in the 1980s. It was not mine, but it was quite a big bang.

Maxximize

Yup I think that's what the Flightmax ones I use are really for. They are rated at 30C and use what looks like 12 gauge wire, which is perfect for my low powered Lunchbox. Now, if I wanted 3S packs these days, Maxamps is the only ones I can find in stock. Their packs are to notch, but they cost a lot! A 4500mah 2s LiFe pack from them costs as much as the whole Lunchbox did, so for that truck I'd have a hard time buying one. The ones for the Mini Revo were only $24 per pack, which is not too bad so I snapped a few up. I'm hoping I have enough to hold out until there is a new chemistry that is less dangerous available, or I'll be stuck with NiMH forever. Or maybe, they'll catch back on when the chemistry matures a bit more and becomes more powerful as we see happening with the LiPo HV packs. LiFe seem to be used enough in cars and E Bikes, hell even electric skateboards and scooters. I think what would help more is if the chemistry became widely used in the consumer electronics market, such as cell phone and laptop packs. Now LiPo is in all those things too it seems. I think my HTC One M9 has a LiPo battery in it, which I'm not too thrilled about.

What people seem to forget or not even realize about LiFe is aside from the inherent safety and ruggedness, it can last up to 2,000 cycles in ideal conditions. Most manufactures advertise them for 1,000-1,500 for real world usage, but this would be great in a cell phone or laptop. LiPo is good for what, 300-400 if well cared for and made of top notch new cells? Nothing else can come close to 2,000 cycles that I know of except maybe NiCD, which iirc can do about 800-1,000 or so if well cared for. I have also tested 6.6v LiFe alongside 7.2v NiMH in the same trucks and found the speed of the trucks to be the same on both, but the LiFe packs have much more punch and consistency. I believe NiMH voltage dips lower than the LiFe packs do under high load. This is amplified even more in the Mini Revo when I'm using my 15T motor, which can draw 22 amps or so. I have also noticed the same difference in my nitro trucks servo performance with LiFe rx packs, and they really helped with the T Maxx which uses power hungry Savox servos.

Yea I got lucky When my NiCD went up, all it did was sit in the road and smolder hahaha. I did hear one pop at the track long ago when a guy pushed like 5A into it and it sounded like an m80 going off! Luckily it was in a tool box, I think he knew it might go up lol. Mine did it on a peak charger with a set charge rate, which thankfully was on a butcher block topped cabinet at the time. My dad had used an oven glove to belt it out the window and into the road. We watched it smolder for a good 20 minutes before it stopped, totally melted down a few cells even. I still have no idea how that happened to this day. Goes to show even when we think our electronics are solid, there's always that chance for a meltdown.