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Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

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Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

Old 02-16-2006, 05:54 PM
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Big_Daddy
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Default Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

The two charges I have are the original accucycle with charge voltages for 4.8 and 6v packs at rates of 25, 50 & 125mah for receiver packs & 50 & 125mah for transmitters packs.

The other charger I own is the new MRC Superbrain 977 which I have used successfully to (delta) peak my son's 8.4v motor packs for his rc truck as well as the 1100mah 5 cell Nimh receiver pack for my nitro monster truck.

Now, I recently bought new Nimh flight packs (2700mah-reciever & 1500mah-ignition) for my 1/4 scale Extra as well as the 9.6v transmitter pack for my 9CAP transmitter. Neither of these chargers seem very well suited to “form” charge my new packs. Further, my accucycle (old one not elite) with the 15 hour fixed charge rate won't charge enough and I not really comfortable putting $1,500 worth of aircraft in the sky with Nimh packs that aren’t charging (and discharging) fully because the peak charging 977 isn't dealing with "formed" packs.

Should I go ahead and delta-peak charge all of my new Nimh packs with the 977 with low charge rates and proper peak threshold settings and discharge with the accucycle until I see them discharging at capacity though this doesn’t conform the c/10 initial charge philosophy?

Do I need to buy another dang charger? Will the Triton “form charge”?? Maybe get a wall wart with proper charge rates like the MPI CH96?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be helpful thanks.
Old 02-16-2006, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

A simple wall charger with the proper c/10 rate is probably the best. The triton is problematic when trying to "form" charge. How about using the accucycle for the 1500 battery at 125 for the full 15 hours? and you won't be too far off by using the 125 rate for 45 hrs for the 2700 battery.
Old 02-16-2006, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

Agree with everything that U-dUd said. If you really need to buy another charger for form charging consider this one from Sirius ProFormer $50.00 I'm just trying to help feed your addiction.
http://www.siriuselectronics.com/ind...54eb94fec19157
John
Old 02-16-2006, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

To make it work with the Super Brain, just set the delta peak detection value as high as it will go (up from 5mv/cell to as high as it will let you 30 or 50 or whatever it goes to) to avoid an early false peak and then set the mAh cutoff at 125% of the cell's rating 2700mAh * 125% = 3375mAh. Like mentnioned above, set the current at c/10 (1/10th the capacity of cell for charge rate) 2700mAh / 10 = 270mA = 2.7A charge setting.

So to review, for the 2700mAh pack:
-Current setting c/10 (which is .27 amps for the first pack mentioned, but you will have to do .25, because the charger goes by increments of 5)
-Delta peak setting to as high as the charger will go, to avoid it shutting off before the desired mAh cutoff in a false peak
-mAh cutoff to 125% of rated pack value (3375 for first pack mentioned)

For the 1500mAh pack:
-.15 (c/10)
-Delta peak as high as it will go
-1875mAh (125% of capacity)
Old 02-16-2006, 10:11 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

The super brain will probably stop due to a "slow peak", I am not sure if it will do a forming charge at c/10,,,,
Old 02-17-2006, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.


U-dUd,

I read the Triton Manual on line briefly and it appears to have a C/10 break-in mode for Nimh (though limited to 600 min as opposed to 14-16 hours) Yet you stated, and JNorton agreed, that the Triton was "problematic" in this regard. I was hoping you could elaborate.

I really would rather not get a Triton or some other $300+ piece of equipment (or 6 $50 ones-yuk) that has perfected only a single facet of battery maintenance.

Shane
Old 02-17-2006, 05:04 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

Most peak chargers are a problem because the peak detection cannot be disabled. The safety timer can be disabled and the peak detect can be maxxed out on nicad setting to attempt to render it useless, but it seems that itwill still stop charge. I am not aware of any breakin mode on the triton, but possibly using the lipo setting with a max time or max mah will do. I have not tried this yet.

One other thing I do not like about triton is that every minute it stops for 5 seconds and I am not sure, but would think a nice constant charge is better especially for a forming or breakin.
Old 02-17-2006, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

Big Daddy,
I've lots wall wart chargers that came with equipment that is no longer used. I've modified some and used others without modification. They supply 80% of my charging needs. Red's Battery Clinic www.rcbatteryclinic.com has the info. I also use Red's idea of keepng my packs charged during flying season by charging them 14 to 16 hours with the wall warts and then plugging them into another 120 VSC oulet strip that is run on an appliance timer set to turn on for 1 hour out of 24.

I use my Triton for charging everything I need a quick charge on -> my electric drills, motor cycle battery, flight pack battery, and those times I need to get to the field quickly. I also use it to keep track of my packs condition by discharging at C/5 after the packs been charged 14 to 16 hours by a wall wart. All my packs have the discharge info from the previous session written on them. When the pack loses 20% I use it for something other than a flight pack.

I guess my point in all this is that a delta peak charger is different than a constant current charger. Just like a box end wrench is different than an open end wrench. They are both used for different purposes.

Look on Red's site and see if you can't figure out how to use the extra wall warts everyone seems to have accumulated. No need to spend another $300.00.

John
Old 02-17-2006, 05:53 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.


Roger on the peak detection override. (or lack of, as the case may be)

Thanks

Based on the fact that this subject (and seemingly vital part of battery preparation) gets quite a bit of attention from the numbers of similar threads here, one would think that the major charger/cycler makers that cost well over a $100 would include this kind of feature that a $12 wall wart accomplishes with ease.

And perhaps, I've just answered my original question.
Old 02-17-2006, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

The really interesting thing is that some of these chargers are now computer controlled instead of using dedicated chips. To convert a delta peak charger to a constant current charger would only require a programming change. Perhaps we will see these in the next generation of chargers. But the fact remains that we would have to be vocal enough for the manufactures to believe it to be wanted. Most people equal faster with better so the charger that charges the fastest or the most cells or ... you get the idea.
John
Old 02-18-2006, 01:21 AM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.


ORIGINAL: U-dUd

The super brain will probably stop due to a "slow peak", I am not sure if it will do a forming charge at c/10,,,,
I am pretty sure, if you set the delta peak threshold to maximum, c/10 charge rate, and type in a maximum mAh of 125% as I described it should work. If not, it will come really close. The only way it will fail is if your battery manages to have a drop in voltage higher than the delta peak threshold. I don't think the charger times out, because I left my starter box battery charging on a really low rate for a full day, and it never quit (until I got bored of waiting and unplugged it).
Old 02-19-2006, 07:55 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

I just had some time to baby sit the 977 and set the threshold to max and the rate to c/10 (7 cells x 3000 nimh)

It stopped after 1222 mah and 246.6 minutes with a stop code of 02 (slow peak)

I immediately started it again and will see how long it runs the second time.
Old 02-19-2006, 08:08 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

U-dUd,
You have way too much time on your hands. Thanks for doing the experiment I think many people who own this charger will benefit.
John
Old 02-19-2006, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

Mostly my curiousity gets the better of me. I usually wind up with more questions than answers.

ps one thing I just learned is that everyone with 2320 post or more is very cool,,,, [&:][:@]

couldn't resist,,,,
Old 02-20-2006, 12:49 AM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

U-dUd,

In the Marketplace you're selling:

A Digital Piranha charger, a Triton AND an Accucycle Elite? You list all with the reason for selling as "do not use".

Interesting. Do you accomplish all your charging needs with the 977 only? I doubt this. I'm simply curious what device(s) you use that made the above listed chargers obsolete.

As for me, the 977 has become my peak charger of choice and I'm happy with it. I guess I have run into a problem of volume.
I am starting to run larger packs in my large airplane, which is a challenge for my old Accucycle, but more importantly If I want to charge up more than one airplane at a time AND my transmitter the night before I fly I'm out of luck.

I decided to buy an Elite (didn't see yours for sale before I ordered from Tower) to accompany my original Accucycle and 977. This trio, with a total six total charge circuits, should accomodate my addiction for a while.
I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to resist buying another piece of (indispensible) charge equipment for at least another two weeks.

Thanks for your input.

Shane
Old 02-20-2006, 01:07 AM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

I use the ice charger mainly. If I need more voltage capacity I use a triton. I just got my first lipos a week or so and will gradually convert everything over to lipo, starting with the small packs first because of cost. Some of my trucks have multople packs and frequently I use 3 chargers to charge one vehicle. If I decide to run 3 vehicles that day,,, well you get the picture,,
Old 02-20-2006, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

Update on the 969 forming charge, It really did a bit better than I anticipated. Had to restart 3 times and the pack did come up 30 deg F surprisingly. Not bad really. It was a 7 cell pack and the mv was set to max of 50mv. It did finally terminate due to a voltage peak so in my opinion I would have to give it a "no" on form charging. One other thing that gives it a "no" vote in my opinion is that the data disappears after the trickle charge stops (50 minutes I think)

Update on triton,,,I did do a same pack (7 x 3000 nimh) on the triton and used the nimh setting and a 60 minute peak delay and a 5000 mah max and a 15 mv per cell and timer set to 990 minutes. It also did a better job than I expected. It terminated due to timer expiration and had around 4600 mah I think. Same increse in temps around 30 deg F, but no voltage drop (it stayed steady at the end) I would give this a "no" vote as well because of the open voltage check every minute.


DISCLAIMER for both packs - they have been cycled a few times before and a brand new pack may be a bit more trouble.
Old 02-21-2006, 12:44 AM
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Default RE: Forming charge for NiMH flight packs with Super brain 977.

U-dUd,

Killer info! I really apreciate the data on the MRC 969/977.

I think I will have the right hardware (for my particular needs) when my additional Accucycle arrives.

Thanks.

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