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voltmeter required
voltmeter required
Safety is the issue. It may seem harsh to some but in the future I will be voting to disallow any new club member that has not been observed more than once using his own voltmeter to check RX battery voltage. Incidentally digital voltmeters are available from Harbor Freight for $5 and load resistors are probably less than $2. Bill |
RE: voltmeter required
We may start a trend together if that's alright. LOL :D
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RE: voltmeter required
It is better than all right. Pass the word.
Unfortunately after a newcomer becomes a member it becomes more difficult to convince him that everything is not yet known. Nevertheless a battery less airplane coming through the pits is dastardly. Bill Ho ho ho, it might hit a $10,000 jet. Facetiously stated. |
RE: voltmeter required
Very interesting.
I have 5 Fluke meters ranging from a 6060A to a 77 , 73 and (2) 83 plus a hand held 99B scopemeter. So what do I use? None of them. Every airplane I own has a voltwatch installed. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXMZ56&P=ML They are cheap and accurate. I read them directly after I land. If you want to test the battery under load move the sticks. Best $11.00 I've ever spent and because it's attached to the airplane I can't forget it! Just my 2 cents. John |
RE: voltmeter required
I also have several voltmeters but the Fluke has a permanent home in the transmitter carrying case. I continue to consider mounting a smaller unused digital voltmeter on/in the airplane and move it as other airplanes are flown. Down linked RX voltage would be so much better.
Anyway I am not concerned about the method used by the newcomer so long as some method is used. Bill |
RE: voltmeter required
ORIGINAL: BillS voltmeter required Safety is the issue. It may seem harsh to some but in the future I will be voting to disallow any new club member that has not been observed more than once using his own voltmeter to check RX battery voltage. Incidentally digital voltmeters are available from Harbor Freight for $5 and load resistors are probably less than $2. Bill |
RE: voltmeter required
ORIGINAL: JNorton Very interesting. I have 5 Fluke meters ranging from a 6060A to a 77 , 73 and (2) 83 plus a hand held 99B scopemeter. So what do I use? None of them. Every airplane I own has a voltwatch installed. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXMZ56&P=ML They are cheap and accurate. I read them directly after I land. If you want to test the battery under load move the sticks. Best $11.00 I've ever spent and because it's attached to the airplane I can't forget it! Just my 2 cents. John |
RE: voltmeter required
The question is being sidestepped by describing what you already know.
I wish there was a good answer. Nobody has well-defined criteria for fly/no fly voltage and that is very unfortunate. Without tools the newcomer does not have a chance. With tools at least there is some hope of learning and future understanding. Someday we will have the tools to monitor the voltage and time relationships and calculate remaining battery life. Historically the major players in an industry pass on the opportunity to expand the technology an eventually become non-players. |
RE: voltmeter required
Unless you use almost exclusively 6v systems like I do. |
RE: voltmeter required
Most beginners fly trainers. Most trainers come with 600ma batteries. A 600ma will last through many tanks of fuel on a trainer with regular servos.
As long as people charge their batteries before comming to the field, where is the problem? I'm not trying to start another voltage argument...I'm just wondering how a beginner could possibly lose a plane to dead batteries unless he or she did not charge their battery before comming to the field. |
RE: voltmeter required
The thing that you must remember, whether newcomer or ace of the skies is, batteries eventually die. and all it takes is one to make an untimely exit(suchas the third flight out of the box) to ruin a day. We all should make a habit of checking RX voltages. There are those factory defects out there, and they are just waiting for the moment.[:@]
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RE: voltmeter required
ORIGINAL: BillS The question is being sidestepped by describing what you already know. I wish there was a good answer. Nobody has well-defined criteria for fly/no fly voltage and that is very unfortunate. Without tools the newcomer does not have a chance. With tools at least there is some hope of learning and future understanding. We had a fellow that would measure his voltage and would not fly if it measured below 5 volts. He thought the batteries were near dead just after the peak was gone and I could not convince him otherwise. Also, a lot of the expanded scale analog meters I see used are way off calibration. Someday we will have the tools to monitor the voltage and time relationships and calculate remaining battery life. Historically the major players in an industry pass on the opportunity to expand the technology an eventually become non-players. I do have a unit that measures how much was put in the battery and how much was taken out to determine the level of charge. However, it operates in the perfect world and can't determine if the cells have any leakage. It just assumes that everything that was put in can be taken out. BTW, it cost $150 which is too much for a simple plane. If you are going to pass a rule, just require all planes to have dual packs and switches. Or: Have a fast charger at the field and top off all the newbies planes before flight. A couple of years ago we had a newbie and the instructor was training him when the plane went in. The instructor came over to me and showed me the meter on the transmitter which was down to zero. He asked the mother and son if they had charged the batteries before that came out. The answer was, Yes we did just before we came out the last time! The batteries hadn't been charged in a month and had been used. They didn't know and the transmitter meter showed good before they took off according to the instructor. Don't make rules just for the sake of making rules. On rules, also keep in mind, if you are an AMA chartered club, any club rule becomes an extension of the AMA safety code. Therefore, if you have a rule that all planes must be volt metered before flight and one is not and has a accident, you may not have any insurance! |
RE: voltmeter required
OK, I measured 4.26V from my well rested 600mAh Nimh. May I go fly now?
jyrki |
RE: voltmeter required
Wilson Flyer,
I know Voltwatches are just for 4 cell packs. Wish they would change it. Here is a link for 4 and 5 cell pack on board voltage monitoring. http://radicalrc.secure-mall.com/sho...45&cart=234395 The reason I like on board monitoring so well is that I can measure the voltage after the flight before it has a chance to creap up! I feel it is more accurate. I4C also has onboard digital voltmeter and they also have a combination tach and voltmeter. http://www.i4cproducts.com/ If I want a loaded reading my Hanger 9 combination Tach and Voltmeter works very well. http://www2.mailordercentral.com/qua...ls/default.asp John |
RE: voltmeter required
ORIGINAL: Jyrki OK, I measured 4.26V from my well rested 600mAh Nimh. May I go fly now? jyrki |
RE: voltmeter required
Or one binding servo.
Or a misunderstanding of the high self-discharge rate of NiMH packs. Or a premature case of old-timers disease. And lets not forget stupidity. |
RE: voltmeter required
iflyj3
My point is how can you establish a rule without criteria to measure against? This is my own personal rule to assist in voting decision about a prospective new member. It is believed that you may have missed the point. Also, a lot of the expanded scale analog meters I see used are way off calibration. I have been using NiCd's for over 40 years and I have yet to see that device. And due to technology changing I doubt there will be one for NiCd's. Heck, I don't even know of one for plain old carbon zinc cells and how old are they? Don't make rules just for the sake of making rules. On rules, also keep in mind, if you are an AMA chartered club, any club rule becomes an extension of the AMA safety code. Therefore, if you have a rule that all planes must be volt metered before flight and one is not and has a accident, you may not have any insurance! Respectfully, Bill |
RE: voltmeter required
Yes... we all need to check our voltage...
but here is something novel in todays world.... Umm.. we could be responsible for our own actions...;) |
RE: voltmeter required
exeter acres,
The responsibility comment is perplexing. It is a given that everyone is responsible for what they do. I certainly hope that absolutely nothing has been said by anyone that would imply a lack of responsibility for his or her own actions. If any of the conversation here has indicated an irresponsible position you might want to elaborate. The desire to have better decision-making tools certainly doesn’t negate anyone’s responsibilities. Bill |
RE: voltmeter required
OK, I measured 4.26V from my well rested 600mAh Nimh. May I go fly now? You don’t need my advice on the sucker-loaded question but here it is anyway. You of course know there is not enough data presented to make a judgment and that most RX’s will function well below 4.26v. With a 3-cell pack and a very light airplane you know that flying might be OK. Bill |
RE: voltmeter required
ORIGINAL: BillS My point is how can you establish a rule without criteria to measure against? This is my own personal rule to assist in voting decision about a prospective new member. It is believed that you may have missed the point. Let's see, you would vote against a new member just because he doesn't have a loaded volt meter with which to check his batteries. I can't believe it! I would vote against a person because of dislike, or he was a trouble maker. But not because he didn't have a voltmeter. Heck we would only have about 5 instead of 140 in our club if that was the case. |
RE: voltmeter required
It appears that you are asking for rules and regulations that each club member is Required to have a voltmeter
Is that correct? What else is a club member "required" to have OK.... this is hypothetical..... Say someone gets shot down and they were using a Futaba radio.... whelp, better have a rule that club members can only use JR radios.... and you can only use a certain Mah battery from a certain manufacturer....etc. etc. etc.. and as mentioned, who is responsible for the calibration of the "required" voltmeters? I am a firm believer that we are responsible for our own actions.... I charge my batteries, I field check my items, etc. etc. If there is a member of the club who is a hazard, ie: always lets batteries run down and keeps flying into the pits... ask them to leave... I just get nervous when there are more rules and regulations...... yes, I do understand the safety factor (by the way, I use a Voltwatch and think it is great!) but if Bob over there doesn't so be it.... I'll sit on the backside of the table while he flys:D Voltmeters are a very valid point, but it just seems to open a can of worms..... IMVeryHO |
RE: voltmeter required
You understand correctly. I will not be voting for new members who do not have and use the tools to fly safely. Remember the tool in question is less than $7. Up front I stated: “It may seem harsh …”
Using the tools properly is an entirely different matter. But at least an interest exists and maybe the knowledge will follow. Bill |
RE: voltmeter required
ORIGINAL: BillS OK, I measured 4.26V from my well rested 600mAh Nimh. May I go fly now? You don’t need my advice on the sucker-loaded question but here it is anyway. You of course know there is not enough data presented to make a judgment and that most RX’s will function well below 4.26v. With a 3-cell pack and a very light airplane you know that flying might be OK. Bill Just playing devils advocate.... Bill..you do have a great point;) OK...the above post is a good example Say the person above has a voltmeter per club rules... at what voltage can that person fly or not fly? What size battery packs are allowed or disallowed? What weight planes are allowed or disallowed? Who is going to read the voltmeter? oh and what brand voltmeter is "club sanctioned" Just because Joe Flyer has a voltmeter, doesn't mean they have a clue how to use it.... will there be a club official at the field at all times to read each persons voltmeter before flight? Etc. etc. etc. etc. This is the can of worms I am talking about..... |
RE: voltmeter required
It appears that you are asking for rules and regulations that each club member is Required to have a voltmeter Is that correct? “ … I will be voting to disallow any new club member that has not been observed more than once using his own voltmeter to check RX battery voltage." What else is a club member "required" to have OK.... this is hypothetical..... Say someone gets shot down and they were using a Futaba radio.... whelp, better have a rule that club members can only use JR radios.... and you can only use a certain Mah battery from a certain manufacturer....etc. etc. etc.. and as mentioned, who is responsible for the calibration of the "required" voltmeters? I am a firm believer that we are responsible for our own actions.... I charge my batteries, I field check my items, etc. etc. If there is a member of the club who is a hazard, ie: always lets batteries run down and keeps flying into the pits... ask them to leave... I just get nervous when there are more rules and regulations...... yes, I do understand the safety factor (by the way, I use a Voltwatch and think it is great!) but if Bob over there doesn't so be it.... I'll sit on the backside of the table while he flys Voltmeters are a very valid point, but it just seems to open a can of worms..... IMVeryHO Bill |
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