calling all 4-step experts
 

Yesterday I got to testing out 4-step charging using the ICE. I had one good charge, and one bad charge.

Both packs are 4 cell IBs 3800mah batteries.

First time I charged, I used these parameters
1200 2400 3800 4500
2.5 5.5 4.5 2.5
This pack charged all the way to 4500 mah. I don't even believe it peaked. It makes me wish I set it to 4800 mah or something.
The second pack I figured I had a little more leeway.
1200 2400 3800 4500
3.5 6.5 5.5 2.5
This pack stopped due to temperature at 3300mah. :( This means it didn't complete the 2nd step. Should I just decrease the current a bit?
What does everyone recommend?

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

This sounds like fun, cann't wait for you to tell me how it works :D
really you are how should I say in a testee area, some say it does no good. I want to play with mine but just don n't have the time yet what I do know is that we are trying to warm up the pack so it can accept a charge better but at the same time not over heat it so it step back down and cool too finish off top charge. The manual has the proportions in percetage.
step 1 C/2 and 30% cap, step 2. 2C 50% cap, step 3 1.5C 30% cap then final is peak detection so 1C and 30 % so 140 % total.

BUT ! the battery must be formed perfect, start dead, and accept 100% charge. and in step 2 110 deg and stay their again I have no idea what iam talking about :eek: cause never been there.
Rich

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

The batteries have been formed, completely discharged and equalized to .5V using Tekin battery tray.

I gotta say, using my first configuration, which took maybe 35 minutes to charge the batteries, the batteries never got hot, and only slightly warm. I was amazed how cool they were even charging at 5.5A. This is why I figured I had more leeway and attempted step 2 at 6.5, which didn't work for these cells. I could have turned off temperature sensing at step 2, but I kinda don't want to do that. I'll drop down back to 5.5A again if I have to.

These are 4-cell packs which pack tons of punch. I have been charging them at 3A and using them in my 1/10 scale 4WD modified buggy using a 5.5r GTB Novak Brushless, and I have just as much power as the 13 triple T 6cell modified guys. They are jealous :P

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

True charging batteries donn't get hot as they are charging, but when super charge the internal resistance rear's it ugly head. This is why this method is so difficult always use the temp probe so never hurt the batteries. As soon as the battery starts to peak the temp shoots so fast it's hard to detect at these currents. The game is getting the setting right then a fast good charge in minutes instead of hours and pack just between warm or just getting hot if really pushing to max.
PS when you get it tweaked let us know the set up so we can enter into our manual to try it some day.
Rich

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I do things a bit different. I have been using 4-step for a while to charge generic subC at 8 amps mostly. I have always started out high and then cut each step down for lower temps. The good batts may take 8 amps all the way.

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

During the race yesterday, I had the chance to test a more aggresive 4-step charging program. I gotta say I am very impressed. Not only with the current output during the race, but also the quicker charge time I received.

The packs I am charging are Orions and IBs 4 cell 3800 mah batteries, I am using the same charge program for each.

1000 3000 3800 4700
2.5 6.0 4.5 2.5

Charge time was somewhere around 25 minutes. I monitored pack temperature closely, using a 12V computer fan to help keep the temps down. I gotta say that this keeps the temps down real well, and the only time I started seeing the temperature rise was at the end of the 2nd step. Temperatures never increased past 105F without the fan. Once I started using the fan, temperatures never increased past 90F.

I am using a bulb discharger @ 20A and then after that, using a tekin battery equalizer, then allowing them to cool for about 10 minutes before throwing them on the ICE.

I had one pack charge to 4582 mah which is amazing to me. I never had this pack charge to such a high capacity before.

The punch from the packs I am using are amazing. Remember, I am competing in the modified 1/10 scale 4WD buggy class. This is the fastest class at the track, and I am using only 4 cells. Everyone else is using 6 or 7 cells. I placed 3rd yesterday. All I can say is I am very pleased with the 4 cell packs being charged this way, and I can definitely notice a difference in power on the track also never having a drop off in power. About all I can think of doing now is maybe shortening the capacity for step 1, increasing current a little during step 3 and 4, and maybe trying out other charge programs like reflex, etc....

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

Your numbers are adding up to a charge taking 73 minutes. To deliver 3800 in 25 minutes it will take an average of 9 amps.

I thought the idea of a step-charge was to charge batts real fast yet still not overheat them. The last 4 -step routine I attempted to invent was to start out at 8 amps on a 3300, but I never had to back it down , so the 8 amps went the whole way,,,,;)

I have noticed from the beginning for some reason batts stay cooler on the ice than any other of my chargers, I thought at first it was all in my head. It still could be,[&:]

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

Any time you exceed 1C the total time will be less than 1 HR.

Your data mattnin is great, remember that step four is cool down and setting is only to delta peak detect. So 80% to 125% current is been the going numbers for peaking and the ICE is not checking until step four so you don't want it fully charged until step four.

PS... I also find the ICE is just the coolest product :eek:
Rich

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

New information =) I got a 6 cell pack, IB 3800s charged all the way to 4785mah with my new 4-step!

800 3300 3800 4800
2.5 6.5 5.5 2.5

Try it out! The temperature stays fairly cool, keep a fan on them though just in case because during step 2, the temperatures may rise. The punch on the cells after this charge program is amazing.

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

Nice data 800 mAH on step 1 then 2500mAH step 2 @ 2C pound the cells....fast fill on step 3 500 mAH @ 1.4C ok a little steep
then peak detect step 4 @ .65 C for 1000mAH ..good safe number here on step 4

on step 4 do you know when peak detect stops in the last 1000 mAH is it realy 4800 - 4785 only 15 not put in ???
and what is delta peak setting and temp detect??? setting

PS remember start full discharged because no safety net on step 1 - 3 but the temperature sensor.
Rich

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

Ok, I'll explain all the steps.

I dropped step 1 to 800mah to save time and since it is only for stabilzation anyways. It seems to be working. No false peaks

Step 2, I had my reservations charging at 6.5A at first, but I'll be completely honest with you. I did not notice even a small increase in temperature. I do have a fan blowing on my cells at all times though, but it stays under 80F the entire time.

Step 3, you may be right that 5.5A is a little high, but it works, temperature doesn't increase at all with the fan, and it reaches step 4 quickly.

Step 4, like you said, easy, safe charging. 3mV peak detect, temperature sensing at 110F. The program stopped at delta peak :-) And much to my amazement, only 15mah from 4800. I think I will increase step 4 to 4900, I mean I might as well.

I do have temperature sensing on all steps, however peak detect is only on the 4th step. No other custom settings, rest are default for the time being.

Like always, I have my discharge routine before I throw my cells on the 4-step. I first use a 20A bulb discharge, the Tekin battery doctor equalizing all cells to .5V all under a fan. Immediately after the lights are out on the Tekin, I throw them at the ICE. If you keep the cells under a fan, they remain cool the entire time.

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

Ooops, my bad, I told you guys the wrong values.

600 3300 3900 4800
2.5 6.5 4.5 2.5

Sorry, I am at work when I usually post here and I didn't exactly remember my 4-step values. The program above is what I used to get 4785 on one of my packs.

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

Sounds like we need a four step memory programmer. Good for all tests[X(]
Rich

RE: calling all 4-step experts
 

Very interesting, sounds very close to what the high end Schulze chargers do. For large NiMH cells, mine start out at 2-3A, then go as high as 10A, the drop back down as the pack nears peak. All automatically. Just set to "Charge-Auto" and plug in the pack.