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Dead stick landings

Old 01-14-2011, 03:52 PM
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beginner/pro
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Default Dead stick landings

Ok, I'm new, but have been flying sims for 25 yrs.. since I started flying real r/c birds, Ihave only had dead stick landings.. mostly hz super cubs and ultra micro p51.. but I have flown my big 91 4 stroke piper cub goldberg three times and this ancient .60 size bipe one time . again, all dead stick landings.. no probs yet all the gas landingshave been beautiful.. scary, but good., but I'm just wondering if I'll be able to actually land a bird with a running motor. Ha!
This goes back to my pc flight sim days when I was younger. I flew and landed flawlessly w/o instruction until I read instructions and started following them and using flaps. Took a while to learn that way. I want to avoid any accidents if possible so I thought I'd read any advice anyone has to offer.
Thanks!
Old 01-14-2011, 04:16 PM
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Villa
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

Hi beginner/pro
I take it that you are flying till the tank is empty and then doing a dead stick landing. I see that at our field occasionally and I did that as I was learning to fly R/C. I never do that now. If the engine dies at the wrong place/time, you may have a bad landing or crash. In high winds you may not get back to the field with a dead engine. I usually make 5-10 landings every flight, because I love landings. Almost always, I am able to taxi the plane back to my station, and the tank is 1/4 full or more. That is an important part of my flight. Fly and enjoy it.
Old 01-14-2011, 04:26 PM
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crash bandicoute
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

I LOVE DEAD STICK LANDINGS!!!! that was how i learned to land, until i figured out how to set the throttle in my controller (full trim/no throttle stick=idle-no trim/no throttle stick=dead stick). i have an LT-25/O.S. .32SX/10x6 propthat i learned with and the thing loves to float in, almost to the point that a dead stick was the only way to get the thing on the ground without overshooting the runway. i guess i would say that it comes with time and setup and maybe learning to fly the plane into the ground if it doesn't want to settle on it's own. i would look at your throttle/carb setup and see if the carb is fully closing off if you pull the throttle stick all the way back with the trim up. if it is, set your throttle trim all the way forward and the stick all the way back and set your end point adjustment or travel adjustment so the carb is just open a smidge. then when you pull back to idle with your trim forward the plane still idles and you land and pull the trim back to nil as an engine cutoff.
Old 01-14-2011, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

I'm sure that some of the more experienced guys will chime in on this.

First; I have a Phoenix sim and you can practice your dead sticks there. You can go into "setup failure" and the sim will stop the motor randomly or there are several other choices you can make. I set it at random because just like the real thing; it could happen at any time and you only have a second to figure out what you can do to hopefully land it in one piece. Good thing about practicing it on a sim is that if you don't get back to the runway and crash; you don't have to fix anything. It is good practice though.

Second; if it happens with the real thing, don't panic. That's easy to say, but I think I have freaked out on each one (on the inside of coarse). Remember; altitude is your freind. If you are flying with others in the air; announce immediately that you have a dead stick. This will let the others know that they need to climb and leave the approach to the runway clear for you (if it happens to someone else, DON'T watch their plane; keep your eyes on YOUR'S). Hopefully you have enough altitude that you will be able to "float" in, but it all depends on the plane you are flying (high wing or low wing). You have to keep your airspeed up. Don't pull back on the elevator too much; this could cause the plane to stall. If you do stall the plane and you have enough altitude; get the nose pointed down (not too much) so you can get your airspeed back up. If you have too much airspeed, you can scrub some off before landing or you can "make" the plane land and hopefully your runway is long enough. Our runway is only about 400 foot long and I have been in situations that I had to "make" the plane land because I could not go around or scrub off any speed. My plane ended up in the tall grass at the end of the runway, but wasn't hurt. Each dead stick situation is different and might require different tactics (keep in high rates or switch to low rates). That's why I say you only have a second or two to figure out what you are going to do. Biggest things are: don't panic, make it known to everyone flying that you have a dead stick, and keep your airspeed up.

I'm sure that I have left some things out, but hope this helps. Always remember; ALTITUDE is your freind.
Old 01-14-2011, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

Perhaps it would be better to discuss the obvious problem. It sounds as though you would benefit by seeking the aid of a more experienced flyer and having him help mentor you through engine operations and tuning as well as a close look at the fuel systems on your airplanes.

I also agree with you, flaps especially flaperons have no business being used in the training environment.

John
Old 01-15-2011, 08:24 AM
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Campy
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

In order to keep yourself from running out of fuel, set the timer on your transmitter to about 12 minutes.
12 minutes SHOULD give you enough time to start the engine, take off and have an 8 - 10 minute flight.

When the timer goes off IMMEDIATELY land the plane. As mentioned above, a dead stick can occur
when you are unable to get back to the field.

I would say that you have had "your dead stick landing practice", so you know what to do in the event this
happens during normal flying. Now you need to practice your landings with the motor running.
Old 01-15-2011, 09:46 AM
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vasek
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

Like Campy said, learn to time your flights. When you will fly other planes that don,t float us much you'll be glad you did!
Old 01-15-2011, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

I started out as a glider pilot, so dead stick landings were mandatory. When I took up powered flight, my first landing was still dead stick.

I will second the recommendation to get a flight timer and know how long each plane runs on a tank of fuel and give yourself a reasonable reserve. Now I often like to fly close in and close to the deck, so if I lose the engine, there are few options for good landings.
Old 01-15-2011, 12:16 PM
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Missileman
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

It looks like some misreading of your post. You always deadstick land and want advice on powered landing, right?
I suggest you start with your sim doing touch and goes ( just barely let your main gear touch the ground and imediately throttle up and take off, go around and do it again)
Then devote a couple of tanks to touch and goes with your real plane.
The great thing about powered landings is if the plane doesn't come in just right you have the option to go around and try again.
Remember that if you are landing under power you are not commited to a bad landing, don't be afraid to abort if things are not right.
Old 01-17-2011, 10:25 PM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

Yelling "Dead Stick" and saying "Oh Crap" all in one sentence is normal in this hobby. I only fly low when I know my engine is running right, but not so low I can't get back to the runway if something goes wrong.


Pete
Old 01-18-2011, 04:03 AM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings


ORIGINAL: Oberst

Yelling ''Dead Stick'' and saying ''Oh Crap'' all in one sentence is normal in this hobby. I only fly low when I know my engine is running right, but not so low I can't get back to the runway if something goes wrong.


Pete
Good point. I had to yell "Oh crap" a few times myself. So many boast of how they dead stick all the time and it is no big deal, etc., and I have found that it all depends on where the dead stick occurs. Take a plane the the little Revolver and have it shut out on take off just off the end of the runway over a corn field and see how the dead stick fairs?

It is all about when an engine dies. A controlled dead stick is not much more than a landing under low power, much like pattern pilots do. Flying low when your engine is running good is smart.

We have one pattern flyer that never lands the plane with engine running, but it is always shut down on approach. I saw his engine die once over the corn field and he had to put it in the corn field just like the rest of the pilots and yet he is one of the best pilots at the field. He has had 1700+ flights because he logs every flight. If anyone can bring a plane in deadstick with supreme accuracy it is him. He has superb skills and does not sweat it.
Old 01-18-2011, 08:01 AM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

Deadsticks are never fun.Besides running out of fuel there are other reasons for frequent engine failures.
Inproperly tuned engines will not run adequately or the type of fuel you are using might not be correct.
I also suggest you get this engine looked at by someone experienced at your club.
Also no matter what you do or how long you have being using the simulator crashes will happen. The only ones that dont crash are the ones that dont fly
Old 01-18-2011, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

Missileman If you will take a look at this thread Post #7 you may change your mind about some of us having misread the OP's post in this thread.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10264475

The Op is in serious need of help in learning to operate glow engines, and its very likely his reluctance to get any experianced help continue to cause him many problems however I shutter to think whats going to happen when he throws that F6F into the air as soon as he can.

I do think its true that in many cases it actually is easier to land some airplanes dead stick and its a fact virtually all landings in pylon racing is in fact done deliberetly with the engine shut off, some high performance pylon engines do not even use throttle but instead use pinch offs so the airplanes can be shut down in the air.

Having said that The op is in need of some serious mentoring however I hope he can get over the pride thing so he will be able to progress and become a fine pilot.

John
Old 01-18-2011, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

ORIGINAL: Luchnia


Good point. I had to yell "Oh crap" a few times myself. So many boast of how they dead stick all the time and it is no big deal, etc., and I have found that it all depends on where the dead stick occurs. Take a plane the the little Revolver and have it shut out on take off just off the end of the runway over a corn field and see how the dead stick fairs?


That only happened to me once, I think I yelled, "*****!" for that one. [&:]



Pete
Old 01-19-2011, 11:41 PM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

WELL,
Seems the gentleman keeps a cool head and no real problems.
Take a lesson from the glider community and learn where the MAGIC WINDOW is for your plane ( that is basically where the plane has to fly through to make a good landing).
Also a timer is a good tool. Touch and goes are a lot of fun and teach the right power management for the plane.
Now a dead stick with a plane that the pilot is not used to yet yields a much higher "P" Factor.
Any how I think we be talkin' to ourselves.......again[X(]
Old 01-20-2011, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

I do a lot of touch and go's, but mostly land dead stick. I just like to fly till the engine runs out of gas. My internal timer in my head is pretty dang close. When I feel I'm 8-10 min from a DS, I keep it up in the air and goof off till it goes quite. BUT THAT'S JUST ME.

The cool thing is, when I DO have an unexpected DS, its not a big deal.
Old 01-21-2011, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

I flew sailplanes for years so it's no biggie.. you get one shot. Of course it's not from an unexpected event though.
I think deadsticks are fun...seperates the men from the boys. The issue is you have to know when to take the walk of shame meaning set it down properly no matter where and when you can make it back to the runway based on your experience with that particualr aircraft, altitued, etc. but how do you get experience if you never dead stick... cut the throttle to idle (assuming its set to not move the plane forward) and practice. That will closely but not fully sim a deadstick landing.
Old 01-21-2011, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: Dead stick landings

Beginner/pro
My two cents is you definately need to be practicing power landings, A must if you venture into War Birds or giant scale Bi-wings and such. Most of these need power to land and simply won't float in. Great care must be taken to ensure the engines are running perfect much like the real thing-besides the investment is quite large. Lets face it, this is why so many break engines in and go to extreme measures before that first flight. With simple high wing planes practice what is called "touch and go's" for the next several flights and work on slowing the plane a perfecting the landing sequence, this alone will get you ready for perfect landings and you can always power off until perfected.

Like many posts above, some planes i find it more enjoyable not flying around as much as working on landing after landing. We have fun with4 Star 60's just seeing how many landings we can get out of a tank of fuel (one lap minimum) 34 is my best on 12OZ and a 914-stroke. Had more fuel but was getting sloppy and dizzy from it all. Good Luck
Mark

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