ES CONTROL

The beginner in general is told to start on a 2 stroke glow. Witch I agree with. Because we want the new hobby to be affordable and succesful.
Going electric is Ok , but cost more and can be confusing to most beginners .
And I never hear a new guy being told to buy a 20cc gas.

It seems to me everyone has more $$$ today. And we, inclulding myself, do not want to admit a OS46AX is hard to beat.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Gas a fad?? No. But the types of planes a new person is going to be flying is usually too small for a gasser so it has been glow that has always been the starting point. Over the last decade new types of batteries have hit the market and made electric another choice. Often a better choice. These days I teach a student with a glow powered trainer, my own. After the solo flight the student finally has some idea of what is going on. Today I often suggest electric if the student is starting from scratch. I was just speaking to an old friend that when we met he was using all three power sources. Today he is 100% electric. Even with his giant scale warbirds. In his case he is much happier and I think better off. He is one of those people that has always had problems keeping gas and glow running. Some people just can't seem to catch on to the how of it all. Electric is perfect for him.
Today we are seeing small 15cc gas engines showing up on the market. In time after all the bugs are worked out they may replace the 60 to 90 glow engines?? Electrics already do.

kiwibob72

IMHO ..... all three power options (not including turbine power in that list for a reason) can be listed as a 'fad' depending on your own point of view and preference.
Electric, despite looking to be the main power option within the hobby moving forward, is really just a fad that took hold.
These new generation small capacity gassers, well they too are a fad, albeit a newer one, and are one I like and see plenty of potential in when I can get a DLE20 two stroke gasser for under half what a good Saito or OS 4 1.20Ci stroke cost, and will allow me much longer and seriously cheaper flights moving forward.
Nitro, well it's the old staple, one I have in my heli (and my old trainer that was crushed in last Fridays 6.0 quake), and is for the most part easy and reliable giving good flight times.
Electric, for all it's simplicity, needs a good investment in lots of batteries and chargers IF your looking to do more than 3 flights on a given Sunday, though I am yet to be convinced on flight times from that system. My old 450 electric heli was ok, but not great.
For me - all new models I get, be it heli or plane, will be gas powered where possible - as with gas, I get longer flight times, cheap running, and I get a small internal combustion engine that allows me to tinker still!

Oberst

Fad? Only when a gallon of gas and 2-stroke oil cost more than Glow. But the way glow prices have shot up recently I believe gas engines are here to stay for now.

I prefer glow for my 1/5 and 1/4 scale aircraft, but once I get into 1/3 or 1/2 scale, I wouldn't mind having a gas engine in it. They are nice and create less of a mess.


Pete

kiwibob72

Not disagreeing in that these new smaller gas engines are here to stay (simplicity combined with cost effectiveness are 2nd to none IMO), though at the moment (if I use my own club as an example), nitro is still the most popular power source for the 'hobbyist', with electric fast looking to overtake, where gas is the least popular (one guy with gas helis, and others with 2-3 planes running gas) - in fairness, when I rock on up with my DLE20 powered 65" wide P51 in the short term, it'll be a rare item in my parts that's for sure!
That said, there is another guy who has the same mustang as me sitting at home who is VERY keen to see how mine goes together in due course, as with an estimated 20-30min + per flight using a engine half the cost of the required 1.20 four stroke nitro, why wouldn't you? (AND you don't end up with the sterility of electric power!)

But to be fair, the plane I'm looking to replace my old nitro trainer with is the ELECTRIC FMS/Airfield 1400mm T28 - As with my line of work and the time I spend away from home, the transportability, lack of flammable fuel that I DON'T need to take with me, combined with the detail, flying trait and ability to be flown from smaller fields/parks and then left in hotels without staining the floor or getting questioned by management ..... I'll suffer that sterile little thing as it'll be a great gap filler that my preferred balsa/plywood fossil fuel burning club field only models can't.

PS - I don't count turbines in with the other three power sources as you either want a turbine or you don't, and that goes for being able to afford them, or having the confidence to fly them (re the whole $$$$$ if it goes wrong).
I personally see them as about as removed from normal prop planes as helis are. While they do fly, take off and land as per prop planes, they sure as hell don't fly like, or require the same skill and/or knowledge set to use as a "normal" prop plane.
They are just their own separate entity that things like EDF or old school nitro ducted fans don't fully touch on ....... I still LOVE watching them things though! And before you doubt my thoughts on turbines being there own separate side to the hobby, ask yourself this, why do experienced prop guys normally get a jet TRAINER before going to scale turbine powered jets? - it's a result of the fact that they need to learn separate skills in the same way a prop plane guy needs to when learning to fly a collective pitch heli for the first time - the skill sets required to fly turbines or helis after only flying prop planes are not normally transferable!

378

My Feedback: (4)

I don't believe it to be a fad, but I also don't believe it to be the end-all-be-all ICE solution for RC aircraft. Glow isn't going anywhere.

I beg to differ. Gassers are more complex. The carbs have built-in vacuum operated pumps, whereas glow engines don't. Glow engines have a MUCH simpler ignition system, too. Once the engine's running, unless it's been mistuned, it will fire every time. To top that off, gassers are almost universally reed valve induction, which adds further complexity over the rotary valve method used in glow engines.


Gassers are not simpler than glow. They're much more complex.


As for cost-effectiveness, that isn't set in stone. For some people they aren't. Some people go by 'smiles per dollar', and for a subset of those, they get better smiles per dollar from that expensive, 'messy', 'complex' glow engine than they ever will a string trimmer engine minus the string trimmer.

billd76

My Feedback: (3)

Well, a gas engine once tuned is complete. Nitros, for me anyway, are a royal pain to tune, and everytime the weather changes you have to retune. I've never had a dead stick on gas. Flight times on gas are way better and you dont get fuel all over the plane when flying as with nitro. Way less messy. Electrics I like, but set up is a pain and flight times are short. I guess I'm old school shade tree mechanic and just don't fool with electic anymore than I have too. I like mechanical stuff and noise. I have a 72 Marhsall JM 50 tube guitar map that volume knob goes to 11 makes lots of heavy distorted noise!!! or music as I like to call it!
The great thing about this hobby is, you learn something everyday. There's always a better way to build a mouse trap.

378

My Feedback: (4)

You have to add parts to yours to tune them? I've NEVER bought an engine, hobby or not, that needed parts added to it to be tuned. They've all been complete in the box.

Protip: Set it five clicks or so rich on the high speed. You may sacrifice 200-500RPM on the top end, but you'll get an engine as trouble free as a brushless setup. I hear car guys blabbering about this too, I've heard many of them ramble on about how they have to adjust their engine every time they run, some even having to adjust mid-run, and I just laugh. Just for sake of example, I have to adjust my F150's carb more often than I have to adjust my RCs, and that only gets adjusted twice a year.

It's a side effect of chasing peak RPMs and striving for an absolute perfect tune at the expense of having a fun, reliable, trouble free engine. My advice for anyone getting anything glow powered is to tune for fun, not for numbers.

Mr Cox

Gas engines a Fad?
I thought they had been around since the 1940-ties at least...

jetmech05

Fly glow for a few years...then fly what a gasser powers and you'll understand.....I love my gassers

billd76

My Feedback: (3)

JeffinTD

I don't see gas as a fad. It seems to me the excellent and affordable gas engines in a wider range of sizes just gives us all more options.

The same thing could be said about the range of electric powered options.

TimBle

is gas engines a fad?

Hey I don't know mate, ask Carl Benz that question. I believe the horse breeders all said the same thing of the IC engined horseless carriage over a 125 yrs ago...

IS the OS 46Ax hard to beat?

Hm for a beginner I'd say its completely beatable by a suitably 60size trainer with a DLE 20 fitted. Its cheaper to run, cheaper to buy after you factor in all the accessories needed to operate the OS46AX.

oh and bigger just flies better...

billd76

My Feedback: (3)

[quote]ORIGINAL: TimBle


Two good points, all you need for gas is fuel, no field box required. Charge the batteries or battery before you leave for the field, load the plane, grab the gas can, and that's it, go fly! and of course your Tx

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I run 5 YS four strokes, 2 OS four strokes and one SK two strokes. All run perfectly, none ever need or get there needles twisted other then when we get our weather changes. I also run 4 gassers. The needles almost never get turned and they aren't bothered by the weather at all. Gassers are easier though. I don't see how anyone can even debate that. Only thing required to take to the field with you is a can of gas. Fill them up and flip the prop. They have been around in modeling in a big way for over 50 years so you can't even debate the fad question. No they are not a fad, they are just getting better and better and the prices are way cheaper then glow engines. Some good stuff sneaking out of China. We now have three good choices of power systems and they are all great. Where I fly gas is king though. I have seen it go from glow to gas over the last three years. The DLE 30 is the number one engine at my field these days. Almost everyone at the field also has an electric too. I even have one. Mine is a sit in a chair and fly plane for the end of the day. Flight time on it is about a half hour depending on the wind. More wind= more flight time. Just a converted 1/2A plane with rudder and elevator. All three power sources are here to stay. If you look at real old magazines electric motors have been around for decades, the new batteries have made them a serious contender. None of these are a fad, they are a choice.

grimbeaver

If anything electric is a fad of sorts. Everything you buy these days is setup for Lipo and will only be good as long as Lipo is the thing. If I buy a glow engine I know that 20 years from now if properly cared for I'll still be able to run that engine. Try and say that about electric. In the same terms of longevity I will rank gas slightly below glow because of future availability of the ignition module.

Gas and glow will always be popular with the serious modeler in it for the long haul or the one who wants to just fly over and over again at the field without spending a fortune on batteries.

AA5BY

It seems to me that fads are driven by novelty, rather than practicality. A gas engine is simply more practical for larger RC models and is not chosen because it is novel... but because it is a good (probably the best) practical choice.

The same practicality drives the electrics in the smaller planes where power to weight ratio is the prime issue.

In both the small and large size RC planes, glow is simply giving way to more practical choices.

acdii

I have 2 EP planes that take the same Lipo packs. I have 4 packs, so I get to fly for maybe an hour or less depending on conditions, then I have to recharge.  3 hours later I can go fly again for maybe another hour. 

Hossfly

The 2 stroke glow is the most available, the most economical complete system, the most practical start-up equipment, and there are more Instructors well versed in that aircraft range. .35 to .60 is the common range of engines. I well prefer the .40-.45 glow engines.


Agreed. Personally, I don't instruct electric. I don't like electric. I will not ever do electric, except for maybe something in the yard.

Of course not. A gas burner is heavier than a like-size glow, therefore most ARF models lack the up-front structure to support a gas burner, therefore the nose-moment creates a very nose-heavy machine. I witnessed a guy that refused to admit to such possibility, then on a start-up, after several flights, the gasser just left the airplane taking the firewall with it along with most of a thumb, half a forefinger, and tips of the next two fingers. Numerous gas burners have left ARFs alone in the sky. [:-]
Actually I would never just attach any engine to any ARF without considerable additional structure around the nose end. Unfortunately most newbies for the past 20 years are not construction wise, and that is a sad thing because they are so use to this plug and play world. I like plug and play, but when it comes to construction, I like better being able to recognize those places where an aircraft is going to break with any usage.

There are better deals on 2-stroke .40-60 engines than the over-priced OS.

Now back to if the gas-burner is a Fad. Well, they have come and gone and come back again. Are you aware the first model engines were gas way back in the 1930s, with the advent of the Brown Jr.? I flew spark ignition gas burners in the mid-late 40s.
When Ray Arden introduced the Glow Plug in about '47-'48, glow sent the gassers away, yet some folks were still flying gas burner sparkers in the early radio control days up to mid '50s. I saw them. Now I have a lot of them, Super Cyclones, Anderson Spitfires, Madewell .49s, Thor .30, (my first), Arden .19s and .09s, and several others. At one time I had many oldies but sold them out

As the small electric ignition gassers get better and lighter, and the price comes down a bit more, I predict that gassers and electric (not me) will control the flying fields. Gasser = Fad. No Sireee!

JeffinTD

Just looking at the current trends:

The price of glow fuel is insane. Planes that would have been .20 and under glow are pretty much all electric where I fly. You won't see glow in a 30% or larger 3D plane. If there was one, you couldn't afford to feed it.

Electric has seen a steep decline in cost recently, and the jump in performance from lighter and more efficient brushless motors, and batteries with energy density that would have seemed impossible a decade or two ago. Larger and larger electrics seem to be the trend.

Gas engines have dominated giant scale, now cheap engines run very well, and they are creeping down into the smaller scale.

If these trends continue (glow fuel rises in price at the rate it has been, electrics make more huge jumps in performance while dropping in price, gas engines become smaller and quality of cheap ones continues rise) I think there may come a day in my lifetime where glow motors become like points in a distributor- which would make me sad

opjose

Lower the nitro content and you'll save a bundle on glow fuel.

Most .46 and above engines DO NOT need more than 5% nitro if you don't run them at high altitudes.

The smaller engines really benefit from higher nitro content, but they consume less fuel anyway.... the larger engines only see a minor bump.

Learn to tune properly and this becomes less of an issue.

I've taken to buying a year or two's worth of glow fuel at a time. Vendors at Weak Signals, were selling 5% for $11.00/ga and 15% for $14.00/ga, for both castor and synth fuels...

-

Are gassers a fad?

Only as much as gas powered vehicles can be considered a fad. Yes those too may pass, but it may take a while.

Meanwhile the introduction of much smaller gassers means that people are replacing larger glow engines with gas engines with more regularity.

I have a bunch of 15cc and 20cc engines that I use in place of glow engines.

As previously posted, the ease of use for a novice, makes gassers attractive.

I can help someone set up their engine, and know that unless there are obstruction problems or they have not maintained ( simple stuff like emptied out their tanks, etc... ) the engine, it will run the same way each and every time.

I still fly my glow powered engines, but the small gassers are sure easy to use.

billd76

My Feedback: (3)

Maybe I need to stop and visit you and get some assitance on proper tuning. I'm about an hour north of baltimore

ahicks

My Feedback: (2)

Wow, plenty stated here to argue over, but I'm not going there this time. I just stopped in to register my vote.

No way is gas a fad.... especially for the fliers running the 8-10 lb. + planes where the available power to weight ratios REALLY start paying off.

MetallicaJunkie

they are definitely not a fad... all my "mains" are gassers

AA5BY

In the yesterday... glow replaced gas because it had advantages over the gas of that era. It seems to me you are failing to recognize that electric and gas now have advantages over glow now in both the small and larger aircraft.