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Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

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Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

Old 07-20-2012, 08:26 PM
  #26  
flyboy75
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

Only if you can afford to replace the plane a few times ?

It isn't a real plane. You don't need an instructor. I taught myself to fly in the dead of winter with three channels, (Eaglet .20, 3 channel trainer) It was a blast. And in your case this is your answer. Buy a 3 channel trainer. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Old 07-21-2012, 02:05 AM
  #27  
chuckk2
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

If you really want to get archaic, try rudder and high low throttle only.

All that aside, most current trainers seem to be easily flyable with aileron, elevator, and throttle. The rudder is useful,
but not that critical if the aircraft is setup properly. I believe the key to success is a high initial exponential setting,
then reduce it as the flier becomes more proficient. To me, setting up the proper landing flare is easy if the expo is set correctly.

If dual rate is available, it seems that the low rate called for (by the Book) is about 70-75% of high rate throw.
When I have three rates available, The highest rate setting is usually set to the book numbers for throw and exponential.
The next setting has a higher exponential, and the lowest rate has the 70-75% travel, with about 35-45% exponential to start.

The highest rate/throw may have ~20-30% exponential, the middle rate ~30-35%, and the low rate ~40-45% to start.
These seem to be ball park for many of the trainers and other high wing aircraft.

Some aircraft (biplane with four ailerons as an example) may require a bunch of expo for the ailerons in "normal" flight.
Book elevator low rate values for some trainers may not give enough throw to quickly get out of trouble. (The Alpha40 may be an example)
Old 07-21-2012, 05:13 AM
  #28  
Lifer
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

For years I have been going to contests and fly-ins and have noticed that for some pilots every takeoff results in either a 45 or 90 degree left-hand turn. I also watch some of the "Crasher" videos and see a lot of planes on the verge of a stall using full, opposite aileron deflection as the plane snap-rolls into the ground. Replay usually reveals a rudder at neutral. For a lot of modelers, the horizontal axis of the left-hand stick is only used for taxi.

People learn based on the example of their instructors. If the instructor downgrades the importance of rudder training, or moves the rudder to the right stick on a 3-channel trainer, the end result is very predictable.

Talk to a full-size pilot and ask if they still include rudder training in general and military aviation training and I am pretty sure the answer will be "Yes." For those who don't want to bother with learning to use the rudder, for all the hobby shops across the country I offer a big "Thank You!" As for me, I'll be hiding behind something large when you are taking off......
Old 07-21-2012, 07:02 AM
  #29  
FBaity
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?


ORIGINAL: RCVFR

You need to not talk to that guy anymore. [img][/img]

+ 1
Old 07-21-2012, 08:15 AM
  #30  
koastrc
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

Beginners forum, this is where it is at. I say that because we are dealing with people that are trying to learn and good people trying to teach. Makes me think of my son. College boy. I went to a cousin that owns a shrimp factory to help get the boy a job. My cousin ask me if I was wanting to send him to shrimp school. I told cousin that he knew nothing of shrimp factory work to which my cousin was delighted. My cousin said that was perfect, the last thing he needed was another shrimp expert.
I think we can all agree with my cousin. None of us can teach anyone that already knows everything. Many of us agree and we disagree on some subjects. The things is we all try and share our combined knowledge with new comers. There is times when I want to throw up my hands and just quit teaching. I come to this forum and all of you do your best, that keeps me going. The views shared here on three channel flying just reinforce my belief that this is the best forum. There has been some good points, no, make that great points made about the subject. The OP was talking to some dude that has been away for a while. The old dude says you don't need ailerons. What does the OP do next? Lucky for him he can come to this forum and pick the brains of some very well schooled folks. From almost no information to a load of info. I think that there is some cases and some people, 3 channel flying is best. What all of you have done is give the OP and others reading this. Many reasons why they should do this or not do it. I know we all get off the subject at times and have our little side debates. The super thing is you all keep trying to help. Like I always say. I thank you and hundred of people wanting to get started in the hobby/sport thank you. Did my son learn the shrimp business? No, but he learned how to work. Just like the OP is going to learn to fly with or without ailerons. He now knows many of the possible differences. Because good people have taken time to explain.
Old 07-21-2012, 08:44 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

My question would be if model planes fly so great without them why did they put them on the models.......Airplanes have evolved over the years for a good reason.People in the past lived in caves......i guess you still can if you choose.

BIGMIG
Old 07-21-2012, 10:20 AM
  #32  
stevenmax50
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

Bad Idea.
Old 07-21-2012, 10:57 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

FLY WITH THE AILERONS YOU WILL CATCH ON AFTER A COUPLE FLIGHTS LIKE THE OLD SAYING>> TRY IT YOU WILL LIKE IT
Old 07-21-2012, 12:58 PM
  #34  
freakingfast
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

FLY WITH THE AILERONS. Learn to to fly it the way you intend to in the future. You can learn rudder technique later.
DO have an instructor and buddy box to help setup and catch you if you screw up. Save the money!
Old 07-21-2012, 01:11 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

JUST GET A INSTRUCTER WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING USE THE AILERONS
Old 07-21-2012, 01:20 PM
  #36  
da Rock
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

The model was designed with ailerons. Models designed without ailerons will turn when the rudder is used.

Models with ailerons will turn just using the rudder, but their performance doing it that way isn't usually the best.

Learning to turn with ailerons isn't a major problem. There really is no good reason to screw around trying to use a modern design in a manner it was not designed to fly.
Old 07-21-2012, 01:46 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

All very interesting, but missing the point, somewhat...perhaps it's better to forget what surface the R/H stick is moving, and just call that stick the 'Direction' stick. Then it does not matter what surface it is moving. We don't 'fly ailerons' or 'fly rudder' we fly the aeroplane. The beginners problem isn't which surface is flapping, but which way the model is going, and what to do to either stop it, or point it the way you want it to go. Orientation. Sure, some designs turn better with aileron, some with rudder, the 'Direction' stick will move the best surface for doing that. My guess is that the person who recommended 'locking out the ailerons' did not add to move the rudder to the 'Direction' stick either, but it is often easier to teach, at the very earliest stages, with limited numbers of control options. For example, with the buddy system I will get the student to use the elevator (speed stick) or the Direction stick only, and I will co-ordinate the rest, remember the student is only learning how responsive the model is to very small stick inputs, and getting the first lessons in orientation. And then the biggest thing, these are model aiplanes, flown from a fixed position on the ground, things like 'move the ailerons' don't have anything like the 'feel' of the full size, but they do change the attitude and direction of the model, and this is what should be taught. You could argue that the throttle should be termed the 'Height' control, elevator 'Speed' and rudder 'Balance', but then we would have to change the whole lexicon of model pilots, and they might not like it...
Evan, WB #12.
Old 07-21-2012, 02:44 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

Well i'm just and old dude and mabe not the sharpest tack in the box.......But when you are teaching your'e student how to fly an "AEROPLANE".........Whats your plan for the receiver stick configuration on a tricycle landing gear plane with throttle..rudder..elevator..and ailerons....??? Which one is going to be your "DIRECTION STICK........

BIGMIG
Old 07-21-2012, 02:46 PM
  #39  
chrichardson
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

For a newbie, no, but for someone who can fly a little, I suggest you use the dual rate switch to stop the ailerions and that way you can put them back on, at the flip of a switch, as needed.
Old 07-21-2012, 05:26 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

For disconnecting the ailerons. I would recommend against it for a huge reason that I see at my field. I trust in the fact that the guys that designed my planes are a bit smarter than me and while I may tweak things I never change them too much. I see guys that just go crazy changing many things designed into a plane and then complain about how it flys. I actually got a free plane this way. A guy was complaining about his Extra and that even with the wings mounted upside down thats right upside down the plane did not fly right. I put new electronics in it and mounted the wings the propper direction and flew the crap out of it. Iwill say the wings did look to have a funny shape to them but it flew just fine with them put on correctly. When I have a student I try to temper what others say. Good advice is good but bad advice can kill an airframe.
Old 07-21-2012, 09:24 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

Well, ya know Bigmig, takeoffs come a little later, and by then they already know which stick is Direction. As for all four channels, again it's a learning thing, on the ground and for the first few airborne seconds, now they need to use the Other stick, don't matter if the third wheel is at the front or the back, the teaching is the same, full back Speed/elevator stick, and steer with the rudder, easing off the speed/elevator as the ground speed increases. But then you knew that, and by the time they are ready to take off by themselves, they already know the correct terms for the flapping bits. But by then they also know what the major effect of each the flapping bits is, too.
Evan, WB #12.
Old 07-22-2012, 05:52 AM
  #42  
mike31
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Default RE: Disconect allerions on a trainer 40 ?

Only if you want to take forever to learn how to fly. Oh yeah, use the rudder from the start. Some never use it but, it's big medicine!

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