Pull pull setup ?
11-08-2012 | 09:29 AM
#26
Senior Member
RE: Pull pull setup ?
ORIGINAL: Gray Beard
I was setting up pull/pull systems for a couple years before I ever heard the term Ackerman and all my planes flew very well. Even after learning what it was and how it worked I didn't worry much about it until I started getting into precision planes and there set up. As a sport pilot it mattered to me not at all, if I had the slack in the cables I never worried about it. Then I started precision flying with pattern and IMAC planes. Incorrect Ackerman didn't show up on my pattern planes due to the speed flown but I finally started to notice it on IMAC type of planes and flying. That's when I started taking the time to set the Ackerman correctly. Any good 3-D or free style pilot will notice it instantly. When you pull your rudder to the slack side there is a delay in the rudder movement and authority or speed until the slack line starts taking control again. I agree with CG, as beginners it isn't something to worry about but as beginners it is something you can start incorporating in your planes now so you learn how it's done and get in the habit of setting up your pull/pull systems correctly. Due to servo placement and how the lines are run inside the plane you sometimes just can't get all the slack out but you can usually get them close. I got along quite well before I ever heard of Ackerman but I do strive for perfection in my aircraft set up. Don't always get it but I try hard. No reason to ever loose sleep over it though but now is a good time to start learning how to set up your planes as well as you can.
I have friends here on RCU that dwell on the subject, I try but tend to not over think it.
I was setting up pull/pull systems for a couple years before I ever heard the term Ackerman and all my planes flew very well. Even after learning what it was and how it worked I didn't worry much about it until I started getting into precision planes and there set up. As a sport pilot it mattered to me not at all, if I had the slack in the cables I never worried about it. Then I started precision flying with pattern and IMAC planes. Incorrect Ackerman didn't show up on my pattern planes due to the speed flown but I finally started to notice it on IMAC type of planes and flying. That's when I started taking the time to set the Ackerman correctly. Any good 3-D or free style pilot will notice it instantly. When you pull your rudder to the slack side there is a delay in the rudder movement and authority or speed until the slack line starts taking control again. I agree with CG, as beginners it isn't something to worry about but as beginners it is something you can start incorporating in your planes now so you learn how it's done and get in the habit of setting up your pull/pull systems correctly. Due to servo placement and how the lines are run inside the plane you sometimes just can't get all the slack out but you can usually get them close. I got along quite well before I ever heard of Ackerman but I do strive for perfection in my aircraft set up. Don't always get it but I try hard. No reason to ever loose sleep over it though but now is a good time to start learning how to set up your planes as well as you can.
I have friends here on RCU that dwell on the subject, I try but tend to not over think it.
The way we are taught when we enter this hobby will stay with us for life, so i do believe it's an advantage to strive for a good honest mechanical set-up even if your flying wont notice it at the start.
I flew in FAI F3C for a few years back in the 90's, and if the world champion's model was 90% ability/skill and only 10% set-up....i wanted that 10%
I am a bit obsessive with the installs, but then again i very very seldom have any problems when flying.
There is a weath of experience on here with a long list of talented modelers willing to give their hard earned knowlege freely.....keep asking those questions !
11-08-2012 | 11:02 AM
#27
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: Pull pull setup ?
I have been doing this for a long time and never once have I ever built a plane with an interior as clean as yours. My control set up is always as good as I can make it but I tend to mount the gear anyplace I can get it, pretty haphazard compared to your set up. Your set up makes me ashamed, I really am a slob but the outside of my planes that people can see is always very nice, I should really try harder.[&:]
My advanced instructor was a pattern pilot so I was taught how to do things. His thinking was the set up was worth a lot more then 10% so I strive to make it as close to perfect as I can. I felt neatness doesn't count but I think I'm still young enough to change my slovenly ways!![&o]
My advanced instructor was a pattern pilot so I was taught how to do things. His thinking was the set up was worth a lot more then 10% so I strive to make it as close to perfect as I can. I felt neatness doesn't count but I think I'm still young enough to change my slovenly ways!![&o]
11-08-2012 | 12:05 PM
#28
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From: Gunton, MB, CANADA
RE: Pull pull setup ?
Hey John. Very nice setups. When I was much younger, I may have been concerned about what people thought. Now that I'm in my mid 50's, ( oh heck, I'm in my mid 50,s) I don't give a R_ts A_ _ what people think. If I don't know something, I ask someone who knows the answer. Doesn't matter to me if they are younger or older. We should never stop learning! Even if I never get to the stage that Ackerman becomes real important, at least now I have an idea what it is. That is a good thing.
11-08-2012 | 05:08 PM
#29
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From: bellingham,
MA
RE: Pull pull setup ?
not that pretty but should work. gonna stop by bass proshop and check out the tackle. should find something to crimp the wires.
steve
steve
11-08-2012 | 05:50 PM
#30
Senior Member
RE: Pull pull setup ?
ORIGINAL: Popriv
not that pretty but should work. gonna stop by bass proshop and check out the tackle. should find something to crimp the wires.
steve
not that pretty but should work. gonna stop by bass proshop and check out the tackle. should find something to crimp the wires.
steve
11-08-2012 | 05:51 PM
#31
Senior Member
RE: Pull pull setup ?
GB, kevin, thank you for the kind words. pleasing to the eye but unfortunatly wont make the model fly any better. I have never heard of Ackerman either, so i think we have all learned something from one straightforward question. Top stuff !
11-08-2012 | 06:12 PM
#32
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From: bellingham,
MA
RE: Pull pull setup ?
ORIGINAL: john josey
What about short pieces of brass tubing ?
ORIGINAL: Popriv
not that pretty but should work. gonna stop by bass proshop and check out the tackle. should find something to crimp the wires.
steve
not that pretty but should work. gonna stop by bass proshop and check out the tackle. should find something to crimp the wires.
steve
11-09-2012 | 02:12 AM
#34
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From: bellingham,
MA
RE: Pull pull setup ?
The crimps that came with plane were much smaller than any fuel tubing I have on hand. They actually looked more like the metal sleeve that fits into the rubber servo mounting bushing... The types had that flaring on one end.. But they were a little longer.
I ruined them on my first attempt.. I also read that monofilament does stretch so I won't use that. Other fishing line would be better?
(. Still using the original wire, but fishing tackle looks like a possible option on future projects?
Steve
I ruined them on my first attempt.. I also read that monofilament does stretch so I won't use that. Other fishing line would be better?
(. Still using the original wire, but fishing tackle looks like a possible option on future projects?
Steve
11-09-2012 | 04:47 AM
#35
Senior Member
RE: Pull pull setup ?
ORIGINAL: Popriv
The crimps that came with plane were much smaller than any fuel tubing I have on hand. They actually looked more like the metal sleeve that fits into the rubber servo mounting bushing... The types had that flaring on one end.. But they were a little longer.
I ruined them on my first attempt.. I also read that monofilament does stretch so I won't use that. Other fishing line would be better?
(. Still using the original wire, but fishing tackle looks like a possible option on future projects?
Steve
The crimps that came with plane were much smaller than any fuel tubing I have on hand. They actually looked more like the metal sleeve that fits into the rubber servo mounting bushing... The types had that flaring on one end.. But they were a little longer.
I ruined them on my first attempt.. I also read that monofilament does stretch so I won't use that. Other fishing line would be better?
(. Still using the original wire, but fishing tackle looks like a possible option on future projects?
Steve
11-09-2012 | 04:55 AM
#36
RE: Pull pull setup ?
ORIGINAL: john josey
If you PM me your address i'll send you some more of the correct crimps FOC... i'll even cover the postage
ORIGINAL: Popriv
The crimps that came with plane were much smaller than any fuel tubing I have on hand. They actually looked more like the metal sleeve that fits into the rubber servo mounting bushing... The types had that flaring on one end.. But they were a little longer.
I ruined them on my first attempt.. I also read that monofilament does stretch so I won't use that. Other fishing line would be better?
(. Still using the original wire, but fishing tackle looks like a possible option on future projects?
Steve
The crimps that came with plane were much smaller than any fuel tubing I have on hand. They actually looked more like the metal sleeve that fits into the rubber servo mounting bushing... The types had that flaring on one end.. But they were a little longer.
I ruined them on my first attempt.. I also read that monofilament does stretch so I won't use that. Other fishing line would be better?
(. Still using the original wire, but fishing tackle looks like a possible option on future projects?
Steve
11-09-2012 | 09:39 AM
#37
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: Pull pull setup ?
When you buy the small round packs of the braided stainless leader at Bass Pro the packs have about 10 of the correct size ferules for the wire. I also keep sticks of aluminum tube in my shop and cut about an 1/8 or 3/16 piece of that to use. When a friend closed his hobby shop I got the display with all the tubing and there isn't a lot of call for it.
Ackerman: the best description of how to set up a pull/pull system with Ackerman I have ever see was in a modeling magazine a couple years back. All the math detail was removed from the article and it was more of a how to do article with a couple photos. I [think} it was model airplane news? Could have been RC Report though? I have friends that save me there old magazines and I get almost all of them at some point, usually all at one time so I can't keep up with where I see things. Last magazine I subscribed to was RC Report.
Ackerman: the best description of how to set up a pull/pull system with Ackerman I have ever see was in a modeling magazine a couple years back. All the math detail was removed from the article and it was more of a how to do article with a couple photos. I [think} it was model airplane news? Could have been RC Report though? I have friends that save me there old magazines and I get almost all of them at some point, usually all at one time so I can't keep up with where I see things. Last magazine I subscribed to was RC Report.
11-09-2012 | 11:44 AM
#38
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From: bellingham,
MA
RE: Pull pull setup ?
Thanks for the offer John but I stopped by Bass pro and picked up an assortment of crimps for $4. should do the trick and I have extras to practice on 1st.
I learned about Ackerman setup when I set up my 40 size profile 3D plane.
thanks again to all...
Steve
I learned about Ackerman setup when I set up my 40 size profile 3D plane.
thanks again to all...
Steve
11-09-2012 | 12:00 PM
#39
Senior Member
RE: Pull pull setup ?
ORIGINAL: Popriv
Thanks for the offer John but I stopped by Bass pro and picked up an assortment of crimps for $4. should do the trick and I have extras to practice on 1st.
I learned about Ackerman setup when I set up my 40 size profile 3D plane.
thanks again to all...
Steve
Thanks for the offer John but I stopped by Bass pro and picked up an assortment of crimps for $4. should do the trick and I have extras to practice on 1st.
I learned about Ackerman setup when I set up my 40 size profile 3D plane.
thanks again to all...
Steve
Cheers
john
