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What Next After the Hobbyzone Champ?? Getting Into Flying....

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What Next After the Hobbyzone Champ?? Getting Into Flying....

Old 08-18-2013, 02:44 AM
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HerrSavage
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Default What Next After the Hobbyzone Champ?? Getting Into Flying....

So I recently bought a Hobbyzone Champ, and well...., I think I have the flying bug... The Champ has been a lot of fun, but I imagine it's child's play compared to a "real" plane..

This plane has been recommended to me as a good first:

http://www.modellbau-city.eu/neuheit.../?ReferrerID=7

Thoughts?

And what about a radio? Is a DX6i or whatever a must? I seem to see quite a few BNF options...

I grew up building plastic WWII models, so I do like the looks for ex. of the Parkzone Messerschmitt..(Being sold here I just saw in a package deal with a DX5 Spektrum radio.. Is that radio any good?) But I assume that would be way too hard to fly..

Anyway, looking to make the next, and I guess first big step into planes this winter.. I've been into cars for a long time, but realize planes is a whole other can of worms.. So any tips would be greatly appreciated.. Radio, simulator, types, models, etc.... Thanks..
Old 08-18-2013, 03:40 AM
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flyinwalenda
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That's a good plane for a next step to larger planes. You can't beat Multiplex foam for durability.
If you want to jump into a larger conventional plane the Eflite Apprentice.is a very good plane. It will grow with you as your skills improve and not be cast aside when you outgrow it. It comes with a Spektrum 2.4 radio that you can use with other planes. Eventually you can upgrade to a better radio with model memories, programmable, etc... as your fleet grows and put all of your planes on one radio. The Phoenix simulator is a good one.
Old 08-18-2013, 03:47 AM
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Thanks.. OK, I guess I'll stick with the good advice and probably get that Multiplex at some point..

Been reading up on the Parkzone F4F Wildcat though... Really like the looks of it and its apparent simplicity... I guess that's a later step in the progression though..
Old 08-18-2013, 04:43 AM
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jester_s1
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The Apprentice is a good plane, but it's expensive now that they've added the electronic training wheels to it. If you want the self righting system then go for it, but I'd point you to the Flyzone Sensei instead. It has a receiver ready option so the plane and a 6 channel computer radio will have you close to $400 with shipping plus every how many batteries you want to buy. The Apprentice is $300 with that Dx5e radio, which has no programming and no model memories so that radio can't grow with you.
As for radios, if you want the BnF option then you have to go with Spektrum. Tactic is the TxR (same thing) company, so if you're eyeing Tower's planes with that option that's the way to go. You don't save much money with BnF planes though, so don't feel like you have to go that route. Look at Hitec for a solid competitor to Spektrum and also Airtronics. The one thing that you must have a Spektrum for is the ultra micro BnF models that have the receiver all together in the electronics package that includes the servos and stability systems.
Old 08-18-2013, 01:49 PM
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I'd go and buy a second hand nitro trainer on eBay with all the gear you need. If its anything like the UK ey are selling for nothing these days. A very nice biplane with a nearly new os46la and all the servos went for 40 ($75). All it needed was transmitter and radio. Bargain and nitro are great.
Old 08-18-2013, 08:08 PM
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The Spektrum DX6i is a very good radio at the price. I have four models on mine and no complaints . . . except I wish I had a seventh channel already for my Radian Pro sailplane. I've always been a Futaba fan (since the 70's) but Spektrum is fine. The DX6i is a lower end unit and isn't quite as nice a cosmetic presentation as my older Futaba 6DA. Different era.

Note the radio is not a must, as you say, but bind and fly sure is a nice feature for lazy folk, time challenged pilots or orphans without a mentor to help them get started. I must confess I have gotten spoiled with it. But almost got burned twice with wild trims that would have obliterated a novice pilot's model. In both cases the elevators were way out of trim and overly sensitive as unboxed. I needed 15 clicks of down to get level flight with the Radian in a glide. Under full powder in wanted to loop endlessly; or at least a figure 9 into the turf. Happily I launched at half-throttle.

I also have added an AnyLink module (Tactic park-flyer Tx) to the DX6i and can bind the E-Flite offerings as well. Got the module free with the F-86 EDF. Can't beat that with a stick.

The T-28 would be a good step up. IMHO you should avoid the ultra micros. They are less expensive but twitchy and hard to see. Though they do fly amazingly well once trimmed up. The Easystar yu also mentioned isn't a bad choice, either.
Old 08-20-2013, 02:47 AM
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Thanks..

The EasyStar is probably the ideal choice for getting started. But the plane that I think I really kind of like is the Parkzone F4F Wildcat.. I've been reading up on it and watching youtube videos.. Seems to have lots of good feedback... But would that be too hard for a more-or-less beginner? And yeah, would it make more sense to get it RTF, or get the Spektrum and get a BNF?.. I don't know really how much flying is in my future.. I am currently WAY overinvested in cars...

As for nitro - nitro is my thing with cars.. But for flying I'm really looking to keep it simple..
Old 08-20-2013, 04:37 AM
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We can't tell you if the F4F is going to match your skillset without seeing you fly. If your orientation is good and you are staying mentally in front of the airplane (finding yourself waiting for it to get to the turn or to finish a maneuver) then you will probably do fine with it. If there is any thought of keeping multiple planes in your collection get the computerized radio. It makes setup and control tuning so much easier with being able to set end points and exponential, and having the model memory makes it the equivalent of having 10 Dx5e radios and with the extra features.

What cars are you into? I just swapped a junker airplane that I had no use for for an electric Traxxas Stampede. It's a barrel of laughs, especially when the neighborhood kids get out there trying to catch it like they did yesterday.
Old 08-20-2013, 05:41 AM
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I actually think I need to get that Easystar.. So far I only have the Champ and a cheap Ipad app.. The Champ is actually easier than the app..

What's the difference in flying a 4-channel, compared to the Champ for ex.? I read somewhere that it's completely different.. (and that, coming from the Champ, I'd have to basically relearn how to fly...) Now, with the Champ for ex., my orientation is basically left stick throttle, right stick steering.. I know that's probably terrible to an experienced flier.. But.. I find it a big challenge going from a car pistol radio to stick radio for planes.. It's like being a skateboarder (as I was for years), and having to try skiing with your feet all weird and parrallel - NOT a comfortable feeling when you're used to the other way....

With cars I'm all nitro.. But with planes I want to start easy - so electric.. I've always found the difference between cars and planes psycologically interesting..., and amusing. With cars, crash.., and replace an A-arm. With planes, crash.., and start over. Crazy...




So yeah - as for cars, offroad, and NITRO... I race nitro truggy (RC8T) when I can, which isn't too often..

Two LST2's, an Ofna DM-1, and Associated RC8T, RC8B (Worlds' Upgrade), and SC8.. Also got a TT MT4 G3 last winter as my little electric toy on the side... That's too many really. But I bought most of them cheap on ebay, and in the meantime the market for used stuff pretty much collapsed.. So I've ended up keeping a lot of what five years ago I would have sold off... Oh well..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us5hIGH0Dac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WRg6cWpDEY

Last edited by HerrSavage; 08-20-2013 at 05:48 AM.
Old 08-20-2013, 03:33 PM
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I don't think it'll be a hard a transition as you're thinking. You're already used to tracking a pretty fast vehicle and keeping orientation which is the biggest first hurdle to a newbie. The big difference flying 4 channels with trainers is that you have rolling to deal with. The ailerons, normally on the right stick, are not a steering wheel like the rudder is. With ailerons, you roll into the turn which doesn't actually change your heading much, then pull on the elevator to turn, then roll out. It's very much like the way you make turns on a bicycle. Properly set up trainers don't require rudder to coordinate the turns, so you can add that in after a couple of flights getting used to the ailerons. You'll find once you get a feel for turning with ailerons that your turns are much smoother and you have a lot more control over how tight they are and where you come out. And getting used to ailerons opens up the option for the more aerodynamic and neutral handling planes that can't turn using rudder only.
Old 08-22-2013, 06:03 PM
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this question is asked alot by ppl.the big question is how good are you at flying and how good you are with the controller.concidering that the aperentice is the first plane that have flown and that it is a top wing, where as the bf109 is a bottom wing i would not go to that one just yet.if you are good with the aperentice then id say the next step up wouldbe some thing like the t-28 a mid wing.
The dx6 is a better controller then the dx5 for the reason the dx6 is a programable TX whereas thedx5 is not
Old 08-22-2013, 10:18 PM
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http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...m2-rtf-HAN4400
Old 09-05-2013, 08:49 PM
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HerrSavage
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OK, so the Champ has been doing great - still having fun with it. But I'm getting closer to going for something bigger and better.

I really would like the Parkzone Wildcat as my next plane - but I can accept if that is too big a leap. The guy at the LHS said to get the Trojan instead, as it should be easier to fly. It does look pretty good too. Would it be too difficult for a first real plane?

They also had a Hype Trojan - a fair bit smaller (82 cm), with an installed gyro. Now, the Parkzone is obviously cooler because of the big size, and I really like seeing all the positive feedback for the Parkzone planes. The Hype is a wildcard - can't find any feedback on it. Does anybody know anything about it? Maybe a rebadge of something under a different name you might be familiar with in the US, Australia or wherever?

http://www.modellbau-city.eu/hype-pr...1140/a-179869/

The smaller size, in my case, is actually quite attractive. With the bigger Parkzone planes I'd be looking at having to drive further afield to fly it - something I'd like to limit.. This smaller plane would be perfect for the local parks just up the road I think. For the Parkzones I'd have to drive off to someplace special. And as I think I mentioned earlier, I'm kind of sick of that with my nitro cars and trucks....

Anyway, if anybody knows anything or has any comments regarding that Hype Trojan as a first "real" plane, I'd be glad to hear it.. Also, is the Parkzone Wildcat a really bad idea for a first plane(in case I get dissuaded to get the Hype)?

Oh yeah, radio: Spektrum DX6i?

I'm pretty sure that with flying these WWII foamies are about as far (complex, expensive, etc..) as I want to go. I'm not going to be building any monster planes that require 10 channels or anything, probably gonna' stay with electric (for flying...), etc..

Anyway, thanks for any tips/info/input...
Old 09-05-2013, 09:12 PM
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HerrSavage
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I just noticed something: the LHS guy was explaining why top-wing trainers are easier to fly than planes with wings at the bottom - lower COG with the fuselage under the wing etc.. Anyway, I was just looking at the Wildcat again, and on it the wings are in the middle, whereas with the Trojan they're much moreso on the bottom.. Would that mean that theoretically the Wildcat should/could be easier to fly?
Old 09-06-2013, 08:08 PM
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Hi,
I'm pretty much a beginner myself although my hands don't get as sweaty as they used to when I set up for take off. My first plane was an E-flite Apprentice 15e. This was not the newer "S" version that has the self-righting gyro or whatever it is. It's a great plane and I still enjoy flying it. It came with the DX5 (5 channel) but I upgraded to the Spektrum DX6i transmitter because it is a 6 channel and can be programmed to remember 10 different aircraft. The DX5 can only be set up for one plane at a time.

You have mentioned the Parkzone Wildcat as a second plane. From one newbie to another, don't do it. There is a tremendous difference between the Champ and the Apprentice I started with and an even greater difference between either plane and the Wildcat. The Champ is a high wing with a lot of dihedral. I have one and love flying it but I can literally take my thumbs off the sticks and the plane will pretty much fly straight ahead unless the wind changes its course or the battery runs down. The Apprentice is also high wing with some dihedral. It's pretty stable with some self-leveling tendencies. It's faster and harder to fly than the Champ but not too bad. The Wildcat will go exactly where you point it and will remain in that attitude until you either give stick input or it hits the ground. Make one mistake at too low an altitude and your warbird will crash before you figure out what to do. I've now watched several newbies who just had to get a warbird crash their plane on the first flight. I let it be a lesson to me. I'll confess that I have not one but two warbirds, a Focke Wulf 190 and a S.E. 5a biplane. I haven't flown either one. I have them to urge me on to the day when I'm ready to handle them. I'm pretty darned good with the Apprentice now. I can make it go where I want and I haven't bounced a landing in a couple of weeks. But when I decide to try my warbirds I'm going to have a friend with a lot of experience backing me up with a buddy box.

Storm
Old 09-06-2013, 10:02 PM
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HerrSavage
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Thanks for the input. I can well imagine that you are very right. When I start adding up the costs though - plane + DX6i + a couple batteries, it starts getting up there - whatever the plane. And I'm just so overinvested in cars right now I really have to stay cheap.. And I don't know if I'm as keen to spend that for a boring looking trainer. I KNOW how newbish that is, and I know that if I destroy it on the first day you'd (and part of me) would be totally justified in saying "I told you so..."

Totally true about the Champ too - if flies itself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yziwda_nwGc I haven't gotten the Wildcat yet - just a question of which request I put in for my birthday in a few weeks. The LHS guy was pretty big on the Trojan.. A local car guy I know too raved about it - his friend has the Wildcat. He did mention that the Wildcat, being light blue, can be hard to see. I'm not too worried about that. I just grew up building all kinds of WWII plastic model planes, so am especially drawn to them... We'll see..

I'll probably post pics of what's left of the Wildcat after I destroy it on its maiden flight.. Or, I'll get the Apprentice and not post pics, since it's too boring to look at.. Just kidding.. Still have some time to think it over...
Old 09-06-2013, 10:23 PM
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HerrSavage
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Just looking at the Apprentice now.. It's huge!! Costs a bit more too.. Still, I'll think about it..
Old 09-06-2013, 10:45 PM
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OK, so this thing is looking better and better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8H02ZaRjQU
Old 09-06-2013, 11:27 PM
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I guess it's all in what you want to do. RC cars are expensive too, as you know. No offense, but they would bore me to death because that's not where my interest lies. I'm a flier, not a driver.

Boring trainer? You bet! Who doesn't want to fly a warbird? But on the other hand the Apprentice will perform most of the the maneuvers the Wildcat will. It doesn't look as sexy doing it but it's much less likely to present you with a pile of broken foam to show for your investment. This really is a case of crawling before you can walk. If you really want that Wildcat buy it. Then find an experienced instructor to Buddy Box with you. He will fly the plane first and get it trimmed out. Then he will get it off the ground and turn it over to you. He will take over and keep you from crashing when you screw the pooch. Another, cheaper, suggestion is to go to your LHS and ask if they have a simulator program you can try. Most do here in the U.S. Summon up a warbird and fly it. Be sure to program in some wind and gusts. I'm only familiar with the Phoenix 4 simulator but I can guarantee it is a good one. There are some others online, especially if they are free downloads, that will lull you into a false sense of security. Avoid them. You don't need a false sense of security. Crashing your chosen warbird a few dozen times should make an impression.

The simple fact is that there is no easy way into flying unless you are willing to limit yourself to your Champ or its equivalent. I have several hundred hours in full scale planes and I can tell you that learning to fly the "real thing" was easier than standing on the ground and trying to make the plane behave itself. I've mastered the Apprentice and fly the 3 channel Champ and J-3 Cub whenever I want to just get up and drift around, weather conditions permitting. The other day I bought an E-flite Carbon Cub and got another lesson in humility. I crashed it on the first flight. Me, the guy who is a pilot! I got too cocky and the bird bit me. At least I wasn't sitting in the cockpit for real.

It's all up to you. I and others can caution you but only you can make your choices. The choices you make will determine whether you remain in this hobby or not.

Storm
Old 09-06-2013, 11:41 PM
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I'm liking the idea of the Apprentice more and more. And your cautionary advice is right. But as it sinks in, the next problem is occurring to me: its size will limit me to where I can fly - and how casually I can transport it around. This past week I had the Champ in the car all week, and just randomly went flying like on Wednesday afternoon after an appt. cancelled.. Don't think I'd be doing that with the Apprentice.. I'd also have to lie to the wife about how big it is before I get her to order it ha ha....

Also, I assume that if I got the Apprentice in BNF, and got a used DX6i on ebay, that it would still have all those functions - like the beginner, intermediate, and advanced settins, and the "oh crap" switch... If I get the Apprentice I definitely will still be keeping my eye on the Wildcat for the future...

Another thing I like about the Wildcat btw is the hand-launching and belly-landing set-up. I guess you could do that with the Apprentice too, but would have to reinforce the bottom somehow..
Old 09-07-2013, 07:23 AM
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I'll caution you not to buy a transmitter on Ebay. Sure, there are plenty of guys who Ebay their radios when they upgrade to something better, but there are also plenty of guys who dump gear they've had trouble with there. The resale value on radios is pretty high, so you won't save much money. I personally will also try to steer you away from Spektrum. The voltage issues with them is well documented and ongoing (a pilot at my club had a brownout just yesterday with fairly new equipment that's in good shape), and quality units are available that don't have that problem. Have a look at the Hitec and Airtronics radios.
Since you are really interested in military planes, I saw that you had considered the T-28. I'll say you should consider it again. No, it doesn't fly itself and there's no "save me from myself" button for it, but it's a nice flyer and it bounces well. You'll also find that it handles wing a whole lot better than the Champ does. That gives you more flying days once you have a basic skill set built up. If you get the plug and play version you can use any radio you want.
Old 09-07-2013, 07:29 AM
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I am very anti-Spektrum when it comes to cars. Despite having heard about range and quality issues for years, I bought a DX3S on sale a couple years ago. Had range issues on the first tank. Returned it immediately and bought a Sanwa.

With planes though I really do intend to stick with the simple end of the spectrum (no pun intended) - foamie war birds, etc., so BNF is a very attractive option. Is BNF only for Spektrum? If so, I would be inclined to get a Spektrum. I also don't want to spend a lot on the radio. If 2-3 years down the road I decide to build a 5th scale B-29 with bombs, moving tail gunner and talking pilots or whatever, I'll buy an 18-channel Futaba to go with it...

Right now I've kind of settled on the Apprentice, but all of a sudden I'm in for like €400 - a fair bit more (and bigger) than I was intending... I do like the idea of the RTF version, despite the radio though, becaues of its simplicity and initial lower cost. I know I know - spending more up front is better for better stuff. But when I'm already over budget with the RTF version, I've got to cut some corners...

Some local guys were telling me the T-28 would be a bad call for a first plane - too difficult.. Need to learn on a trainer, etc..

And yet again - the size issue concerns me. I was just over at the local park with the Champ. Quite a few amused/interested onlookers, kids walking by and under... Just couldn't fly the Apprentice there I think..

Last edited by HerrSavage; 09-07-2013 at 07:43 AM.
Old 09-09-2013, 04:27 AM
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Are you guys in the States required to have special insurance for RC flying? Apparently you are here in Germany.. Got to be in a club too.. €100 a year, and additional insurance on top of that for flying in other RC-plane-designated-only places..

I've decided on the Apprentice and DX6i I think.
Old 09-09-2013, 06:38 AM
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Over here it depends on where you are flying. There are no federal government requirements concerning RC flying (yet!) that I know of but some cities have local ordinances that pretty much force you into a club. Different clubs usually require AMA membership at $61/yr and have several hoops you must jump through in order to prove you are qualified to fly safely. I considered one such club several years ago and frankly it turned me off from learning to fly. I had to learn from one of the official club instructors. We could only fly on weekends and even then the field was only open when one of the Safety Officers was present. Your plane must never ever leave the boundaries of the designated flight space. Etc. I understand their reasons. Let your plane hit a person, building, or a car and the entire club could and probably would be sued. But the egos involved with this particular club were huge and that plus the restrictions made me decide I'd rather not fly. You will usually find the AMA sanctioned clubs in metropolitan areas.

Now I live in a rural area near a small town. There is a small group of of fliers who got permission from the local school district to use a huge open field adjacent to the bus barn provided we don't fly over the barn or buses.. No official club but everyone obeys the commonsense rules of flight safety. We don't fly over vehicles or people and so on. I often go out in the evenings before sundown when I have the field to myself.

Good luck with your decision. It sounds like flying over there is heavily regulated. It wouldn't be my cup of tea.

Storm
Old 09-10-2013, 09:50 AM
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So my LHS just got one of these in.. I kinda' like the way it looks... Any input?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PopAj-gmiW8

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