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Decisions, Decisions.... Seniorita, LT-40, or Kadet Senior Sport???

Old 10-30-2015, 02:06 PM
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rustyrivet
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Default Decisions, Decisions.... Seniorita, LT-40, or Kadet Senior Sport???

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[TD="class: alt2"]Decisions, Decisions.... Seniorita, LT-40, or Kadet Senior Sport???

[HR][/HR]I'm a new pilot & have a dozen flights on my 39" Hobbyking Skymaster. It's 4 channel, weighs 1.5lbs and I fly it with a 9x6" prop. I do well with it, but have a heck of a time landing it with 12mph wind gusts. Then I have a 45" Mini-Telemaster with ailerons which is also a 1.5 lb plane with 9x5 prop. I will not fly it until I feel comfortable with the Skymaster. But that's on standby and waiting to be flown. I expect it too to be a challenge on anything but calm days. But, it's already built and I will be flying it someday soon!

So, now I want to enjoy my hobby and build something else in the meantime, and can't decide between building a 4 channel 63" Seniorita (I already have kit, wheels, ailerons,etc) or buying a $195 Sig LT-40 which is a 4 channel 70" wing, or a $245 Kadet Senior Sport with 78" wingspan. My concern is that I don't know if by the time I've graduated from my 39" and 45" small electrics I will still need the floaty aspects of the Kadet Sr or Kadet Seniorita, or....... if I would be better off with the little less floaty and stronger built LT-40. (?) I kind of like the LT-40 flying aspects, but don't like the long one piece 70" wing for clumsy transporting. AND, for just $50 more, the 78" Kadet Sport looks a lot nicer plane with pants and all, and has a handy wing tube too, but don't know if it's too floaty compared to an LT-40. (??) The 63" Seniorita is already paid for....except l will need to buy about 3 or 4 rolls of covering for it. (That's about another $50-$60 expense) But the 63" seems a little short on wingspan, might be a bit floaty too. And unlike the ARF's, it will require a lot more time to build from out of a kit. It will be a nice flying plane, but I wonder if I'll be sorry later that I didn't build something bigger. (?)

So......decisions ......decisions. Would all these 3 choices work for me where I stand right now as a new solo pilot?.......or does one seem better to you then another? I'd especially like to hear from you instructor guys. Thanks.
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Old 10-30-2015, 04:40 PM
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JollyPopper
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I will make one comment here. You picked three of the very best flying planes in the world to choose from. So let me ask you a question. Are you comfortable building a kit? If you are I would suggest a kit built LT_40, since the sheeted sides would take rough landings better than the others since they are both stick built from just behind the wing to the rear of the plane.

I just recently built a Seniorita and modified it by extending the sheeting all the way to the rear of the plane. The three sheets I used to do this weighed 3 6 ounces before I cut them, so the resulting extra weight was very little. And I believe this plane turned out to be the best flying of the three, all of which I currently own.

But I still like the LT 40 best. It has a Saito 72 in it and the Senior has an OS 91 in it. The Seniorita has an OS 46 LA in it.
Old 10-30-2015, 06:27 PM
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I agree with JollyP. All three are standup good planes, but I think all would be "floaty". If you have the Seniorita, you should build it, Or sell it if you're not up to the build. Or build it for the experience of the build. Building a "Sig" kit usually renders a good plane if you follow their instructions. What I've liked in Sig kits is how thorough they are in their instructions. So they are good for beginners or experts. I've read where experienced modelers have taken the Senior and turn them into semi scale models like a Curtiss Robin or Dehavilland Beaver. So those kits are good for beginners and experienced modelers. A Sig Something Extra might even be in the cards. I agree, decisions decisions. Choose a path and have fun.
Old 10-30-2015, 07:57 PM
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jester_s1
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You already have a trainer. Then you are planning to graduate to another trainer with the Telemaster. It's not surprising that wind is bothering you with that small trainer, because trainers stink in the wind. If you'll build an Ugly Stick for your third plane, you'll find it's a much more pilot friendly plane. It'll be a lot more stable in the wind, easier to land, easier to maneuver, and just generally more fun to fly.
Old 10-30-2015, 08:22 PM
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Jolly,
You mentioned that you would do the LT-40 kit. Does the LT-40 ARF not have the same strong balsa and/or ply construction as the LT-40 kit? Or is it that you just didn't realize it's available as an ARF too?

Jolly, Tom,
But, if I had to build a kit, I'd likely just stick with my Seniorita kit that I already have. Adding 1/16" or 3/32" balsa sheeting to the sides is a good idea to beef it up while maybe adding just a smidgeon more of weight for slightly less "floaty" flying too. My reason for leaning to an ARF is because I'm thinking these 3 planes might be more of stepping stone to teach me to fly, and so I'm not sure I want to invest all that time in building a kit if that's all it is going to be. I'm starting to wonder if after 2 dozen flights of my 39" Skymaster, and 3 dozen flights of my 45" mini-telemaster I'm liable to find any one of these next 3 choices as more of the same thing but just bigger. (??) If I'm going to devote 125 hours doing a kit, I think I might rather devote my time building a doped Sig AstroHog, or maybe a Dynaflite Decathlon later...... once I'm a more experienced pilot. Does that make sense? But, I'm just not sure until I fly one of these 3 bigger planes (Seniorita, Kadet SR, or the Lt-40) if I'll find them as being more fun then the Skymaster and mini- Telemaster. (?) Not sure I should risk 125 hours building a Seniorita to find out.

Is the fun factor something you think you can venture to guess? Maybe you'll tell me "Hey Rusty.....believe me that a 63" kit built Seniorita will not be like flying your little 45" mini-telemaster." (?)
Anyway, I know I'm going long. If you'd like to comment, I'd love to hear your opinion. Thus far I'm leaning to buying a Sig LT-40 ARF, or building my Seniorita kit. The LT-40 seems to be a favorite everywhere compared to the SR..

Last edited by rustyrivet; 10-30-2015 at 08:24 PM.
Old 10-30-2015, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
You already have a trainer. Then you are planning to graduate to another trainer with the Telemaster. It's not surprising that wind is bothering you with that small trainer, because trainers stink in the wind. If you'll build an Ugly Stick for your third plane, you'll find it's a much more pilot friendly plane. It'll be a lot more stable in the wind, easier to land, easier to maneuver, and just generally more fun to fly.
Jester,
The stick just does not appeal to me and would be more like a homework assignment then something I'd enjoy. To top it off, I fly that thing terrible on the flight simulator too! LOL HOWEVER, I have had my eye on the 68" Ebay Rascal for something like $115-$125 shipped. (heck of a deal!) I'm just not sure some of these planes like the Rascal for example, would be too much of a bit of a jump from my small Skymaster and mini-telemaster flat wing trainers.
Old 10-30-2015, 09:11 PM
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Before you "graduate" to a building something more complex, I'd build one of the Kadets. I've built a three channel Kadet Jr, very similar to the LT-40. It's a fairly simple build and, better still, it's a good "building trainer". My thought is build the LT-40 or a MK II, then the Seniorita, then on to something more complex.
Old 10-30-2015, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Before you "graduate" to a building something more complex, I'd build one of the Kadets. I've built a three channel Kadet Jr, very similar to the LT-40. It's a fairly simple build and, better still, it's a good "building trainer". My thought is build the LT-40 or a MK II, then the Seniorita, then on to something more complex.
Any of the 3 planes I mentioned will not likely be a problem for me to build. I've had some practice.
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Old 10-31-2015, 04:56 AM
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My third plane was a sky tiger (tiger 2 now I think). It is still one of my favorite flyers and it is going on 20 years old now.

Calvi
Old 10-31-2015, 07:49 AM
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My point was that trainers fly badly in general because of the training wheels they are designed with. They get tossed around by the wind a lot, they have a lot of pitch coupling with speed changes, and the dihedral fights your roll inputs. Everybody I've ever seen graduation from a trainer to a sport plane, including myself, has said that the sport plane is easier to fly. The reason I recommended the Stick is that it has everything that a second model should have- light wing loading, forgiving stall characteristics, great wind handling, it's durable, and it does aerobatics fairly well. I'm a fan of moving on from trainers as soon as you have basic control down. If you aren't relying on the dihedral to level your wings for you and you aren't having those panic moments anymore from not knowing which way the plane is pointed, you are ready for a sport plane. If the Stick is just too ugly for you (which I would understand completely), consider a Sig 4 Star, Goldberg Tiger 2, or a Hangar 9 Pulse.
Old 10-31-2015, 08:18 AM
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Another option may be to build the Seniorita with reduced dihedral. I did this with a PT-20, but did not take enough out, it still flies like a trainer, Jester is right a sport plane is easier to fly than a trainer(when you are ready for it)
Old 10-31-2015, 08:20 AM
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I started with the LT40 and it flys great, but is a floater. My next kit was a Sig Four Star 60 which was just as easy to build, but was a lot more fun to fly. It is a forgiving plane with gentle characteristics or it can be very aerobatic.
Old 10-31-2015, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
My point was that trainers fly badly in general because of the training wheels they are designed with. They get tossed around by the wind a lot, they have a lot of pitch coupling with speed changes, and the dihedral fights your roll inputs. Everybody I've ever seen graduation from a trainer to a sport plane, including myself, has said that the sport plane is easier to fly. The reason I recommended the Stick is that it has everything that a second model should have- light wing loading, forgiving stall characteristics, great wind handling, it's durable, and it does aerobatics fairly well. I'm a fan of moving on from trainers as soon as you have basic control down. If you aren't relying on the dihedral to level your wings for you and you aren't having those panic moments anymore from not knowing which way the plane is pointed, you are ready for a sport plane.

Hmmmm.....I'm focusing on what you,Calvin and flyer35 are saying about perhaps it being time for me to be moving onto something other then a trainer once I've mastered the basics of my 2 trainers. Makes me wonder if perhaps the $200 would be better spent on something other then trainers......like perhaps the Value Hobby 77" Rascal for $140 shipped. http://www.ebay.com/itm/77in-60-Nitr...MAAOSwVFlUEGm0 Or.......maybe I'll save my money and build my 63" Seniorita with ailerons and put very little dihedral in it, since I have the kit already. This particular Rascal copy is large and stable, and some guys mention in the feedback on Nitro Websight that it behaves gentle as a trainer but is capable of many aerobatics.

Thanks for the input guys. Yes, maybe you steered me away from spending good money on an unnecessary 3rd trainer.





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Old 10-31-2015, 01:12 PM
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jester_s1
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I'd say build the Seniorita with no dihedral. It will still be stable since it's a high wing plane. It just won't be self-righting anymore.
Old 10-31-2015, 04:36 PM
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Don't know if I'd take it all out, maybe leave .5" and call it good. That and changing from strip to barn door ailerons is what I plan on doing to a Mk II, when I get it ordered in the next couple of days. One other change to the Seniorita I would make is to use twin aileron servos rather than torque rods, installing them about mid aileron. Just a thought
Old 10-31-2015, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Nied View Post
I agree with JollyP. All three are standup good planes, but I think all would be "floaty". If you have the Seniorita, you should build it, Or sell it if you're not up to the build. Or build it for the experience of the build. Building a "Sig" kit usually renders a good plane if you follow their instructions. What I've liked in Sig kits is how thorough they are in their instructions. So they are good for beginners or experts. I've read where experienced modelers have taken the Senior and turn them into semi scale models like a Curtiss Robin or Dehavilland Beaver. So those kits are good for beginners and experienced modelers. A Sig Something Extra might even be in the cards. I agree, decisions decisions. Choose a path and have fun.
I will second the Sig Something Extra, This was my second plane, the first being a high wing trainer. I was very shaky when I started on the Something Extra but it tuned out to be a very good trainer when throws are limited and proper expo is used. One thing I really like is it lands very well without floating, Drop the throttle to idle on base and let her down and flare about a foot off the ground.
Old 10-31-2015, 07:42 PM
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rustyrivet, I think you know what you want to do. You won't go wrong with any of the planes we have already discussed. Flying a a "trainer type" plane is always fun. Especially if you're trying to fly inverted. Do that a circuit around the field and you're getting "good". But you already know what you are up against flying "trainer types. Seriously, the fact that you understand what you are up against, you are ready for the next step. Seniorita with less dihedral, would be a great plane and fun. Go to the next step, (Stick, or Sig Something Extra, Pulse), you would be fine. Seriously, don't fear going to a flat wing. But also, you wont regret having a nice Seniorita. Have fun. Just make a choice.
Old 11-01-2015, 04:16 AM
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I've been back in the hobby just over a year now after a 3 decade absence. I, too, went thru this decision process. I was going it alone, no instructor.


I scratch built an Ugly Stik. A favorite plane for me. After I finished the build, I decided I did not want to do my first flight with it. Doing research I discovered the S.P.A.D. airplane. I figured that is what I needed. Durable and inexpensive to build, $18.00 in material. No big deal if a crash happened. I built a Debonair. It was totaled on the first flight. Mechanical problem. I built a second which I an flying now. A great trainer for me.


I also scratch built an LT-40 which is completed now. Very little dihedral. It will be my first balsa model to fly. Should be fun.


So my plan is:
Continue to fly the Debonair until I really feel comfortable. Getting there.
Fly the LT-40 next. Get comfortable with it. Always good to have a trainer plane around
Then move on to the Ugly Stik which will be a blast.


Now I am looking at my next build which will be a low wing.
Old 11-01-2015, 06:13 AM
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Hi RustyRivet,

I have been flying for over 30 years and still love my trainers. Some days I just don't feel like flying wild 3d and just want to relax. I believe all pilots should have at least one trainer in their fleet.

You have mentioned 3 excellent trainers, and any one is a good choice. They would all behave similar in flight. I personally would go with the Kadet Senior Sport. It is a "tail dragger". I don't like trainers with "nose gear". The nose gear takes a beating, especially from a beginner. The steering linkage often slips and you end up with a sideways tire (especially from a grass runway). The only negative with a tail dragger is it is more difficult to control on the ground. You will have to use the "rudder" to keep it going strait down the runway, and learning to use the rudder is a good thing.

I also believe the larger they are, the easier they are to fly, so going to a larger trainer is a good idea. Don't be afraid to fly in the wind. In most parts of the country, you won't get much flying time if you wait for a calm day.
Building a "Kit" vs "ARF" is up to you. You may find "building" is enjoyable. I prefer ARF because I have less time invested in the airplane. When it takes 6 months to put a plane together and 30 seconds to destroy it, you will know what I mean.

I notice a few folks are pushing you towards a low wing aircraft. You can build one now, but I wouldn't fly it until you have mastered all aspects of flight with a trainer. When you feel comfortable flying your trainer, takeoff and landings seem easy, and can fly simple aerobatics with it (loops, rolls, inverted flight), then you would be ready for a low wing aircraft. When I mastered my trainer (actually the 3rd - first two destroyed ), I was scared to death to fly my first low wing. As soon as I was airborne, I relaxed, It was easier than I expected.

What do you plan on powering your next airplane with (electric or fuel)?
Have you joined a club? That is the best place to learn. There are always helpful folks around to help out and train you.
.
Old 11-01-2015, 08:37 AM
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http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXFMAK&P=SM This should be your next choice not another trainer. It will handle the wind and teach you the basic pattern maneuvers.
Old 11-01-2015, 09:44 AM
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Rustyrivet / ETpilot and others here ,i put my trainers on floats long ago and enjoy water flying all summer now with a few trips to the flying field . After learning how to build from plans and cutting my own kit parts out its changed my hobby for the better in my eyes. I enjoy the building of anything as much as flying them now and always will . Here are almost 7000 free for the downloading plans hope you enjoy this hobby like i have for 40 + years , http://www.outerzone.co.uk/index.asp It looks like your going to be a builder by seeing your plane you posted rustyrivet and if you ever are looking for a hard to find plan imore than likely have it saved its my second hobby now collecting them . Good luck guys ! joe
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Old 11-01-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by flycatch View Post
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXFMAK&P=SM This should be your next choice not another trainer. It will handle the wind and teach you the basic pattern maneuvers.
+ 1, I will always have a kaos in the hanger. Great flying planes.
Old 11-01-2015, 12:21 PM
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Simple ! Simple !

SENIOR !

Still flying mine with a Saito 91 that I built about 17 years ago.
Old 11-01-2015, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Granpooba View Post
Simple ! Simple !

SENIOR !

Still flying mine with a Saito 91 that I built about 17 years ago.
I just sold off a couple of them and miss both of them . I have a wing i got from who knows where and going to build a fuse for it maybe this winter along with to many other planes i want to finish this year. Here ya go biam joe
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Old 11-01-2015, 01:51 PM
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I might be off here but I'm reading where you're really looking toward flying the trainers but you want a reasonable step up - something with a bit of safety built in. If you're looking at a kit, why not go for the SIG MidStar-40? She's reasonably stable, symmetrical wing - shoulder mounted and flies on .46+ engines.

Mine's over 20 years old and doing just fine.

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