caseyh46

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After doing some reasearch on here I came across a picture MinnFlyer posted of a simple homemade smoke system. I installed it on a .91 Magnum 4 stroke that's in my Miss America P-51. It really wasn't all that much work... although I did have to teach myself how to solder again. I went to the local craft store and bought some parrafin oil (lamp oil) and filled it up. Everything fit very nicely in the Miss America as it has lots of room in the fuse for this sort of thing. Everything is right over the CG save the micro servo and switch. Anyway... had it up and that thing smoked like crazy... I was really impressed at how thick the smoke was... a perfect dark thin line of smoke that trailed about 40 foot behind the bird before it disappated.. anyway... Minn if you read this thanks alot.. it worked like a champ... now I think I'll try some "real" smoke oil... it might be even better... all done I'd say it cost me a whopping 40 bucks... here are some install pics...

Casey

ICE_MAN

Where's the aritcle? and how much does the whole smoke set-up weigh?

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

I'd say all in all.. minus the weight of the smoke fluid (I'm using an 8oz tank) the pump, battery, micro switch and micro servo can't weigh more than 4-6oz... didn't weigh it before and after... but I really couldn't tell any difference in flight performance at all. The tank and battery are pretty much right over the CG anyway so if anything it just raised the stall speed... but like I said.. I can't tell the difference... just do a search on "smoke system" and you'll run across the picture (really it's a diagram) of the setup that I used... I even spliced the pump battery in with a servo plug so I can charge the pump batter with my Futaba wall charger...

twistr

My Feedback: (4)

Casey: I just put together a p 51 60 and have installed the Magnum 91. How does it fly? I haven't maiden mine yet, just finished today and it's all windy here. There is lots of room in the fuse. I want a plane with smoke so bad I can taste it. Can you post some more close up pictures of your setup so I can *attempt* to duplicate?

Thanks!!!

caseyh46

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It seems to fly very good.. My experience however has been that too much elevator makes this thing a snapping fool... although it very well could be that I'm not a very good pilot LOL. The hardest thing to the whole deal is tapping the head pipe.. that's some stinking hard steel, I think I wore out three bits drilling it out. I'd love to take more pictures for you but I'm not sure what I'd take them of... the two I posted as are high a resolution as my camera will go on and it shows the entire internal set up. The purple hoses are smoke... they both go to the firewall.. one for the vent and the other to the muffler ofcourse. I got the switch for the pump at Radio Shack, it's a pressure switch that the micro servo arm touches and makes contact. I added two cross braces to hold the tank in place and then just zip-tied the pump down. I used an old 4.8v 600mAh battery from an old reciever for power. Here's a picture of the diagram that MinnFlyer posted, hopefully he won't mind if I post it again here. Just solder it all up like the diagram shows and what I did was instead of hardwiring the battery to the switch I substituted an old servo extension.. cut off the white (signal) wire then cut the whole thing in half... soldered the male connector to the battery/pump side and the female to the switch side that way I can charge the battery with the Futaba wall charger. I hope this makes sense... if not keep posting and I'll do what I can to help. One thing though... DUDE it was so freaking cool to see the Miss America light up with smoke.... felt like a kid again... oh yeah.. it seems to fly good like I said... the landing gear are weak but mine are holding up fine.. probably good they're a little flimsy for my landings LOL... Hope this helps.... sorry I didn't have my camera at the field..

twistr

My Feedback: (4)

That's awesome. I'm going to start collecting stuff now to get mine going. What pump did you use?

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

ummm... I think the pump I used was the one for 18 bucks at Kragen auto parts. It was out on the floor near the windshield wipers.. I just bought the cheapest one.. they're all set up for 12v systems (cars) and we're only putting 4.8v on it so just pick one that looks good to you. Me, I went for the cheapest... works like a champ...

Casey

twistr

My Feedback: (4)

OK, and where did you come up with the restrictor and check valve?

caseyh46

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Actually I went without the check valve and it worked fine... I may add one later.. my hobby shop was out... the restrictor I made out of a piece of 5/8" dowel rod... a hole through the side and one in the top.. run the hose ethorugh the hole in the side and thread a bolt through the top of it to constrict the hose however much you want...

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Can I assume that the Check valve near the muffler is a "one way" to allow the smoke fuel into the muffler?

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Yes Snoop, it's there to prevent the muffler pressure from blowing the oil back up the line which will "Un-Prime" the pump.

Casey, I'm surprised yours works without it - it's possibly because the pump you are using either already has one, or else it has a VERY good
seal and won't allow flow either way as long as it's not pumping.

BTW, no problem reposting the diagram. And I'm glad it worked for you!

The pump I use can be picked up on line through JC Whitney for ubnder 10 bucks:

http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/...0101&langId=-1

But here's a fair warning - Be careful about just going into an auto parts store and picking up any windshield
washer pump. I bought one once that when turned on, it interfered with the radio!

For more info on Smoke Systems, read this:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=455]Got Smoke?[/link]

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

Yes Minn... the pump has a very good seal.. there's no way to push anything back agains the pump... I may add one later for safety sake but didn't need it yesterday at the field... I also did a range check at the field with the pump running to ensure there was no interference... and there was none..
Casey

volkan

mmm, im gunna try this on my flair leo,
it will have a SC 1.20 FS in that.
What tubing is needed?
Can i use festo fitting for the check valve,
and what liquid should I use for the best smoke effect?

Please let me know/.

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

Volkan.. I used regular old glo fuel tubing (purple so I could tell the difference between the gas and the smoke lines) and haven't had problems.. granted I've only tried it in flight twice and at home a few times... I'm using lamp oil (parrafin oil) I got from a craft store and it smoked very well. I don't think that stuff will break down the silicone tubing but don't hold me to it. I'm not sure what you can use for the check valve as I'm not sure what a "festo fitting" is.. but like I said.. I went without one because I guess my pump is sealed very well... I didn't have any problems with it... If it keeps working well I may spring for some "real" smoke oil.. but for now the parrafin oil works good enough for me...
Casey

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I use a product called UltraSmoke, It may no longer be avalable but I still have a few gallons left.

Super-Dri and Bennit's Best are a few other good ones.

BTW, Casey, you may want to switch to neoprene lines. Do a test, put whatever oil you're using in a little container and add a 1" or so piece of your line. If it gets gummy after a few days, make the switch (or you will soon be filling your fuse with smoke oil! )

Ogriv

Hey Minn, Do you think a Magnum .60 sized 4-stroke would produce enough heat for this smoke system?

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

It's hard to say. If you read the "Got Smoke" article, you'll see that anything is possible - it just depends on how much you want to play with it.

I will say this - I wouldn't be afraid to TRY putting it on a 60 size 4-stroke

twistr

My Feedback: (4)

Minn: How do you transfer the oil to the tank? Do you need a gas pump or will a glow fuel pump do the job? And what about cleanup afterwards, do you need to run anything through the pump to keep it from gumming up?

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

All of these depend on the oil you use. If you are using a petroleum based oil (Which most of them are) you need to use lines that are safe for gasoline

twistr

My Feedback: (4)

OK, but what about cleanup. Do you need to flush the pump after every use, or so often, or ever?

I also would like to see more details about how to wire this beast. I mean, casey wired it so he could charge the battery. If he hadn't how would he have charged the battery? I'm not very technically inclined but can follow instructions. If I know what wire to solder where, I can get the job done. Maybe a more in-depth photo illustration of the wiring diagram.

And I just want to verify, the tank is not pressurized, the pump is used to pump oil out of the tank, so how do you vent the tank while oil is being pumped out? I know you have the vent line, do you just leave it open at the end and higher than the tank itself?

Sorry to be so many questions, but once I learn it, I've gott'r down pat!

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

I used a large syringe (big plastic kind, no needles) that my wife stole from work... works like a champ.. to put the oil in the tank... I went back and added three lines coming from the smoke tank... one goes to the pump... obviously connected to the klunk in the tank... the other goes to the firewall as a vent... and is connected to the vent in the tank (on the inside it's bent to the top of the tank.. justl like any other gas tank) .. the third goes to the fuselage so I can fill the tank with the plastic syringe without the lines popping off...
No.. the pump does not need to be cleaned after every use...
If you don't wire it like I did then I have no idea how you'd charge the battery.. all I did was:
take a normal servo extension.. cut it in half
the two wires that will be coming off the switch... take those two wires and cut them (they will be leading to the pump and battery.. this completes the circuit as shown in Minn's diagram)
The Servo extension has three wires... I removed the white (futaba, signal) wire so there would only be two... you don't need a signal wire in this case...
Now... where you cut the wires coming from the switch.. solder each half of the servo extension onto these wires so they plug into each other... making sure you get the female end on the side where the battery is... that way you can use your futaba wall charger...

Hope this helps twstr... let me know if you have more questions...

twistr

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks Casey, I'm sure I can get this thing going now!! I'll let you know, ordered the pumps from JC whitney yesterday (gonna do two birds!

2slow2matter

My Feedback: (1)

I have a question about it, though. Do you leave your fuel tank pressure line hooked up to the muffler? Does the smoke oil line tap into the exhaust header before the muffler (low pressure side)? So on, say, a saito, the tap would go into the threaded part of the header? If so, how do you keep the petroleum-based oily exhaust from being forced back into your fuel tank (assuming you leave the fuel pressure line hooked up to the muffler).

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

well.. and this is just my uneducated assumption... if you regulate the smoke oil volume being put into the exhaust header properly is should all atomize and burn up (turn into smoke) before reaching the muffler pressure tap... I experienced (and I checked) no smoke oil got into my fuel tank. As Minn has stated before.. sometimes less smoke oil works better. Plus, I'd assume that since the smoke oil is being put into the muffler where the exhaust temp is highest and pressure is lowest then by the time (a very shor time) it reaches the rest of the muffler it shouldn't matter... I assume that if we don't worry about all the extra glow fuel that is passed through the muffler then why worry about a small amount of smoke oil... but.. like i said.. this is my uneducated guess. Also, I'm not sure about Saito but on my magnum there's a pressure fitting on the bottom of the crank case... not really sure what this is for but if it's some sort of pressure relief or something then you could possibly use this as your fuel tank pressure source instead of the muffler. I don't know of your saito has this or not but you might check it if you haven't. hope this helps a little...
Casey


and yes.. I tapped the header pipe.. the threaded portion of the muffler as close to the engine head as I could... that way the exhaust temp would be at it's hottest for best atomization...


Twstr: let me know how it goes...

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

You don't want to use that crankcase tap for your fuel tank pressure,That thing expells some pretty nasty stuff that you don't want going into your tank.

As far as will the smoke oil go into your tank... probably, but the amount is so minute that it really won't hurt anything.

Now as to the wiring, Here are 2 methods so you have access to a charger. I use method "A"