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Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Old 12-30-2001, 02:22 PM
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Default paying for instruction

I started flying a year ago with the help of total strangers I showed up at the field with a plane and basic flight gear I introduced myself and asked them if they could give me some pointers. Somewhat sceptecilly ( excuse spelling) tthey checked my plane and one of them told me he thought it would fly and he would take it up with the understanding if something went wrong he would be sorry but that is how it goes. to make a long story short it went fine and he gave me lessons

I was told by one hobby shop that they would give me lessons for a fee after i bought all the equip plane AMA joined club etc.

I feel if you are going to charge for lessons you should furnish plane radio buddy box everything that goes into it also if you are teaching on someone elses plane if it crashes you should have to replace it
Old 12-30-2001, 04:16 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

In the area I live there is a club that is only about 10 minutes from my house. The people who are members of that club have worked up a reputation of being stuck up and perfer to look down their nose at you.
I,therefore,join a club that takes me about 35-40 minutes to get too.The people there are great. In fact,the instructors practically knock each other over to show a new guy how to fly. That's what the hobby really is,friendly people and good times.
Old 12-30-2001, 04:31 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Mariner,

Let me share a experience with you. When I was learning to fly, I had a very nice plane, extremly good flyer. Even though it was a trainer, everyone at the club stopped by to see it. I was ready to solo, but still on the buddy box with my instructor. Coming in for a landing I made my final turn to align with the runway, no wind, done it tons of times. But, the plane headed straight into the ground, totalled! There was nothing I could do, and nothing the instructor could do to save it. It was close to the ground. The problem was suspected as radio problems, and was comfirmed by Futaba. I did not, and would not have expected the instructor to pay for my plane. I knew the risk and accepted them. On landing there is very little an instructor can do to save it should that happen.

Fourstar40,

After my crash I had to order a new trainer (I wanted another like the one that went in). Another club was having a field day and I decided to drop by. After they learned mytrainer had crashed they let me fly thier trainer on a buddy box. That was the kind of spirit, all of the guys there did not want me loose any flying time waiting, but non of them actually knew me. I plan on going back at thier next field day. They made a long distance friend

Randy
P.S. Sorry the spell check was not working
Old 12-30-2001, 06:27 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

OK, there is a lot of talk about getting paid to instruct, but where is this going on? There are several clubs around me and I have never heard of anyone charging to instruct. Good for you if you can get someone to pay, but around here instruction is free.
Old 01-01-2002, 12:14 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Miniair is right on, this is a hobby, not a business. If you were to have a hobby shop, your own field, go for it. If you are using a club field, and getting paid, then you owe the club for use of the field.

I would never consider charging for services that are my hobby. I have been a ham radio operator for 31 years, and have repaired many other peoples radios, climbed their towers, put up/take down antennas etc, and never thought of charging, even tho there is a very real danger when climbing towers. I do it for them, and in return I know if I ever need their help/expertise, all I have to do is ask.

I am in the computer business, and also look at fellow Ham's, Rc pilots computers if asked, no charge. This is friendship, and that is much more important than the $$ I could make. I do however make sure that I am not taken advantage of. I know some will say if I do not charge, I am being taken advantage of. You find out for sure when you need help, and I can say 99% of the time, if I need help, it is there.

It quits being fun when you have to fork over $$ for every little thing.

I am also a private pilot, and like the earlier post, I did not mind paying for instruction, because of the liability, and cost of achieving instructor rating. SAme thing with Scuba diving. It costs a lot to get to the point you can instruct. PLUS you have a very high insurance bill every year to cover the liability...

Enough rambling.... Thanks for letting me voice my feelings...

Have a great flight, and keep en flying

Les
Old 01-01-2002, 12:47 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Les,

I have a 50' tower with 6mtr quad I need taken down can you help me?


'73's


Randy
KD4VCU
Old 01-01-2002, 01:41 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Well I for one do not have a lot of free time. Does anybody know of an instructor in North Jersey?
Old 01-01-2002, 02:45 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

I had lots of friends that taught me to fly at no charge. I was lucky enough that I knew all of them before I got into R/C. One of the benefits of living in a rural area. I have been the instructor for a few, and would be happy to do it again for free, if anyone asks.

Having said that, I do not see anything wrong with charging for flight instruction. If the local club provides good instruction for free, then it will be hard for a paid instructor to get any business. On the other hand, i f there are paid instructors doing a good business at your field, you might want to look into the services provided by the club's free instructors.

Eric
Old 01-01-2002, 03:50 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Magnum,

If it is safe to climb, I would be glad to, next time I am in Huntsville. Unfortunatly, that is almost like being in a foreign country to me..... I do make it to Anniston every once in a while tho.

Did a 50 footer, and 60 footer last weekend, for an older ham here. Only problem is, it cut into my flying time.

Les
Old 01-01-2002, 04:22 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Hehe,


Can't have anthing interfering with the flying time can we.

Actually mine is a tilt base, so rather easy to lower..

Next time you get a visa to come to Huntsville, give me a shout by email, gotta nice flying site here so bring a plane(AMA required).


Randy
Old 01-01-2002, 05:21 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

ifly2,

Yell at me when you are in Anniston. I have a field about six miles north of town. Nothing is required but my permission.

Eric
Old 01-01-2002, 07:35 AM
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Default RC Training

I am a firm believer in giving what you have been given. I myself am self taught. I also have taught many many fellow aeromodelers to fly R/C.
Some students are quick to learn and some take a long time. Either way, you can't put a price on sharing what what you love as a pastime.
Old 01-01-2002, 11:51 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

One must understand that there are more than likely many beginners who can't find clubs that offer such great free service, if beginners can find a club at all, in many cases because they don't exist in his area. I've talked to many who don't like the idea of having to join any club, but they still wish to learn how to fly, perhaps on their own property. Like one poster said, he doesn't have the time to wait for a once a week 15 minute free session.

It is a very noble gesture to offer help for free, but there are probably many beginners who would gladly pay almost any amount to learn ASAP. But according to most, that is not the correct way to do things. Many consider that if a beginner can't spend the time waiting for free instruction, he shouldn't be in the hobby. I'm sure that is not the general consensus though.

The volunteer imposes quite a few strings for the beginner.
If an instructor gets paid by the hour, that means that he is obligated to stay with his "customer" for an hour. I've had several volunteer instructors tell me that their nerves couldn't take teaching for an hour straight hence one good reason not to take any money to teach.

No one should have a problem with a commercial instructor who has his own flying field, using his own equipment, paying extra for his own business insurance and offering quality service, at the beginner's convenience. Now the beginner does not have to worry about crashing and he will learn ASAP.

Most likely many clubs offer a great free service, but it cannot match what a competent professional instructor offers. It's a win-win situation for everyone. The club and the AMA gets a new now safe flying member who they don't have to teach. The industry gets a new most likely lifetime customer. At least the beginner is smart enough to make a choice and at least he now has a choice. Now if the free instructor could match the service of a professional, the free proponents have a case.

I mentioned this before, but it was apparently missed. With all the volunteer instructors out there, they should add their names on AMA's instructor page they have on their website, if they really want to help the beginner...it's free. You have to let the public know that you exist, which is the difference between what a free and paid instructor does. The free instructor is usually only talking about teaching in his club only, unlike that of the commercial instructor who is available at the beginner's convenience on a 7 day a week basis. Then again, with enough volunteer instructors out there, you would put all paid instructors out of business.

As far as hobby shop owners paying for pro help, if the pro is an independent contractor, he has no legal connections with the hobby shop owner. All and all, some simply have a religiously held problem with paid instruction...period, much to the detriment of the beginner and RC aeromodeling industry.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors
Old 01-01-2002, 04:43 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Good point. There's always more than meets the eye.
Best regards,
Damon
Old 01-02-2002, 02:06 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

I have only made a few posts at this site but have been watching this thread and feel compelled to reply.

I am a long time RC,er since 56 and have been a full scale instructor since 63 with some intensly active periods. What I don,t understand is this anger at the thought of a little commercialism. Without a variety of this commercialism there would be no Hobby/Sport as we know it today.

Back in the fifties and sixties full scale general aviation in the U.S. was in trouble. The accident rate was quite high, pilot competency was down. Flight instruction was treated as a poor step child that nobody wanted to do. Flight instruction was the minimum wage job of aviation and most instructors were only building time for better things. It was not untill the middle sixtys and the advent of the mandatory Biannual flight reveiw for all pilots including instructors along with gradual attitude changes toward more professionalism did things begin to improve.

My point above is the comparison between full scale training then and RC now is quite close with the lack of professionalism in the 'club system'. Now don,t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the that system. It can and does work, to a point. I do actively teach under that system because I chose to do so and am not interested in making a living however to offer blanket condemnations for those who are bringing just a little professionalism to the industry is foolhardy indeed.

There are four fulltime professional schools scattered around the country that are doing well that I know of and that is a portent of good things to come for us all.


Clarance - I have been working with your kinestetic techique and doing well with it.


John
Old 01-03-2002, 09:38 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Hi you all. In regard to teaching someone how to fly and getting paid for it. First no one id going to get rich teaching people how to fly.
In 1989 after Hurricane Hugo hit Puerto Rico I started teaching people how to fly R/C for money. Big joke, I was charging $100.00 for three months training and the student could fly with me 6 days a week. No Sunday teaching (for pay) because our club came first.
Now did I make money Of course not. First of all I wasen't doing it for money. My deal was simple. The three month course was $ 100.00. The student would pay $ 25.00 the first 4 times he or she flew. It didn't make any difference if they fler 4 days straight or once a week. However once the $ 100.00 was paid the student had the full 3 months to learn (not one week) and no one can solo in an hour. The student usually would fly anywere from 3 to 5 flights. All loged.
For $ 100.00 the student got (1) me as an instructor (2) a correctly built trainer to use with a buddy box ( all my flight and ground equipment) help with a model if they were building one. In addition to the $ 100.00 fee the student had to pay for the fuel. After all some students take more time than others to fly.But they were never rushed.
Now as I said I wasen't making money, so why was I doing this. Well for years I have seen new modelers come down to the club with poorly built planes, poorly set up, batteries not properly charged and a slew of other things which all of you have seen.
So what was the student gaining. With my program it was easy for someone to get into the hobby. Why? How often have you seen new fliers get into the hobby and get out of it as fast as they got into it? With my program the most a modeler could loose was $ 100.00 bucks, a gallon of fuel and lets not forget AMA cost.
But the student could leave when ever he or she wanted to. If they only took one class ($ 25.00) and decided that they really didn't like flying they were out. They didn't have to get rid of what they had spent hundreds of dollars for.
I taught for about 10 years charging $ 100.00. Like I said I really didn't make any money but what is important is that I was able to teach many people how to fly. Today some of them could teach me a thing or two. But I know that I helped not only how to fly but gave them a way to get into the hobby without making a big investment at the beginning. In all my years of teaching for pay only one student wrecked one of my planes. By the way I am 70 years young.
One of my students was a Navy Seal. Who later on was the pilot for the Navy when they pracaticed shooting model aircraft from Navy ships in the Caribbean.
There is nothing wrong with charging to teach anything. Forget how we learned. How long did it take some of ass and in some cases we had to do a lot of butt kissing. I know I had to. That is another reason why I set up the (Caribbean R/C Flying School). Till today I have some of the hobby shops down here send me students. But I dont run the school any more. Instead I tell them to come down to our club and after they become a member we will teach them
They have to join the club, then pay the dues, join the AMA and finally wait and see who shows up on Sunday to teach them how to fly.
That's my story guys.
Old 01-03-2002, 11:30 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Good points JMF2001, I undrstand what you are saying, and see your point.

One question I have, is insurance, Is AMA void, if you charge??

I am still new to Rc'ing (1 yr), and learn something every time I sit and read these threads, or go fly.

Have a Great new year.

Les
Old 01-04-2002, 01:18 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

jmf2001,

If your club is AMA chartered, you can actually teach someone to fly without them spending a dime! All you have to do is have an adult AMA member teach them and keep records of pre-flight and in-flight training and progress for 30days. During that time they are covered by AMA.


Check out the AMA website for the details, there are certain rules you have to follow, I believe it's called the intro-pilot program.


Randy
Old 01-04-2002, 03:14 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

I read this thread when it started, and after a week I hadn't checked back. As I was reading through it I am amazed at all of the interest in such a topic. I think a situation like jmf2001's is perfect. The geographical area in which I learned to fly did not provide for such an opportunity; most pilots built thier own first planes and then found someone to fly with. I think that the area in which you fly determines how flight instruction will work. It seems to vary so much from field to field, that in one situation, it might be inconcievable to charge, while in another (like jmf's) it might be the only way to go. I guess it is whatever works for you and the folks you fly with!
Old 01-11-2002, 05:49 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

WOW - hot topic. It's all been said an I agree with everyone. I'm self taught because I didn't get a "warm fuzzy" from the club but also because it was 25 minutes up the road and I couldn't get a commitment from an instructor. Us family guys don't have the time to hang at the field all day. If someone had offered to charge for some stick time while I was there I would have gladly paid. On the other hand I enjoy helping others as much as I can and two other people have learned to fly on their own with some pointers from me. Almost as much fun watching them catch a thermal as when I do it

I have now met a few more others and we are starting a new club. Think my next plane will be a 2Meter Foamy (Highlander ?) we can use for letting passers by try it.

MAAC is like AMA. A student is covered by the instructors membership insurance. An I'm pretty sure it covers only not for profit club/hobby type activities. Charging a nominal "commitment" fee would probably not be an issue as long as you could maintain you we not making money at it.
Old 01-11-2002, 06:33 PM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Originally posted by greg
WOW - hot topic.
MAAC is like AMA. A student is covered by the instructors membership insurance. An I'm pretty sure it covers only not for profit club/hobby type activities. Charging a nominal "commitment" fee would probably not be an issue as long as you could maintain you we not making money at it.
MAAC only covers the student for one introduction flight while under the control of an instructor. It does not cover the student for the complete term of instruction.

Payment of any kind will void your MAAC insurance.

Former MAAC Safety Committee Chairman
Old 01-11-2002, 06:42 PM
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I stand corrected. Thank you Jim. Is there a smilie for sheepish?
Old 01-12-2002, 12:06 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

When I first started R/C (a few years ago), I was surprised how much heat the idea of paid instruction created. To me, every other sport has paid instructors, so why not R/C? I still think paid instruction is a good idea, but here's what's working against it:

1. Many (most?) flying sites in the U.S. are maintained (lobbied for, cut the grass, put up signs and the impound, maintain tables, etc.) by a club on a volunteer basis (even if it's publicly owned land). It drives club member nuts to think that somebody (the paid instructor) is benefiting financially from their hard work (without which there would be no flying site).

2. Flying is somewhat dangerous, particularly to fingers and windshields. Many paid instructors haven't thought through the possibilities and haven't purchased business insurance. As stated before, AMA insurance is not meant to cover folks running a business.

You'd think that these two could be worked out pretty easily. The paid instructor should compensate the club for its work, perhaps by an additional annual membership fee ($50 for regular flyers, $300 for instructors), or perhaps a percentage. #2 could just as easily be handled by the AMA including paid instructors for an annual fee. Why hasn't either of these happened? That brings us to #3:

3. Even though the non-paid volunteer instructors say they do it for the good feeling they get, it still drives them nuts that other folks are doing it for money, and therefore they do whatever it takes to make sure no solution to #1 or #2 are found.

Too bad. The club where I fly has a great (free) instruction program, but it's hard to see how someone can learn to fly if they have to wait in line and at best aren't likely to get more than two flights every two weeks. I think the bias and activity against paid instructors, while well meaning, is probably hurting the hobby by reducing the number of successful new flyers.
Old 01-12-2002, 02:21 AM
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It seams that most of you are missing what I am reffering to when I say paid instructor/ I am not talking about the good old club member who teches new club members how to fly. Iam talking about instructors who are ready to go when a paying student calls up to make an appointment to fly. Most clubs help a member fly his ( or her ) plane. Paying instructors provide everything a student needs to learn how to fly. And like I said before, you don't make any money teaching people how to fly model airplanes. So why do we do it? Well I do it because I remember how hard it was for me to learn how to fly. So now I try to help people who are really interested. And once again, my method is a lot cheaper than someone buying a plane, engine, radio and all the other goodies that we need to fly. I am giving people an oppertunity for $ 100.00 to learn a hobby that could last them a life time. The teaching not only envolves flying but they also get help building and selecting the type of plane that will keep them growing in this hobby. How many of you have seen new would be modelers come down to the field with a poorly constructed model or those first time would be pilots come on down with a neat looking P-51 or a Spitfire. By the end of the season most of these Top Guns are long gone. And for those who don't agree that serious instructors should get paid then they should try giving up their flying days and always be ready to take on the responsibility of teaching.
One other thing. I hear a lot of modelers talk about modelers today learn the way they did. I wonder how many wives or girlfriend of these modelers would want to wash chothes the way their grandmothers did.
The hobby is getting expensive. If we want to keep the new guys that come out to the field they need the best advice and training they can get. Payed instructors is the way to go. In the long run we will all be better fliers. Now don't get me wrong. There is nothing wrong with the old way. One other thing. Each month we seen new ARFs. Why has the industry changed?
Have a nice week end guys, and don't forget to flair out.
JM
Old 01-12-2002, 04:07 AM
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Default Paying for Flight insrucrtion

Interesting thread. I actually enjoyed reading through it, so I'll make my answer brief.

I don't think its wrong for a good competent R/C flight instructor to charge for their time, I personally have never met one but I know they exist. Some people can afford to pay for an R/C instructor. Their lifestyle may demand it. I have built a few R/C planes for people who did not have the time, skill and desire to do it. I did not make a lot of money and it was more of a favor for a friend/acquaintance. I have taught three people how to fly R/C over the years and it was more stress for me than the student. I did it for free. I made some lifelong friends who I still stay in contact with over the past 20 years.

I also fly full scale on and off, have almost always paid for an instructor. I have had a few Biannual Flight Reviews which the instructor (a friend) did not want payment. I usually ended up buying him and his wife dinner.

For me aviation of some type has been a hobby for me for about 40 years. I have let people fly my R/C plane as an introduction to R/C and have taken people up when I owned a full scale plane just as an introduction. I have been fortunate to have met so many helping people in aviation that I feel a certain obligation to try and spread some of that friendship.

Rich Sanchez
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