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do you really need a computer radio????

Old 04-26-2006, 12:52 AM
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SICKSAND
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Default do you really need a computer radio????

I'm just getting into the sport and just ordered the tower 40 trainer.It comes with a 4-channel radio,I wanted to get more planes eventually so do I need a expensive radio right now?
Old 04-26-2006, 01:32 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

A computer radio makes it easier to set up several different planes.
With a non-computer radio, you need to do things the "old fashined" way (good old days). For example, you set your throws mechanically, using different control horn lengths; you adjust your linkages until you can leave your transmitter trims at zero.

You do not need a computer radio NOW but most likely you will want one sooner or later.
Old 04-26-2006, 07:24 AM
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rlipsett
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

try the simple 4 channel to see if you like flying. The computer radios are great for multiple plane set ups if you decide to go on and make more advanced plane set ups easier
Old 04-26-2006, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

You won't ever NEED a computer radio unless you start flying Helicopters or flying VERY advanced planes. For the average flier they have some very nice features that make life easier, but are by no means essential.

I have a few computer radios, and a few non-computer radios. I have been flying for about 40 years and I have a hangar that would make most people green with envy, yet I can't think of a single one of my planes that REQUIRE a computer radio.
Old 04-26-2006, 08:13 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

There are very few "basic" planes that require computer radios. They make it easier so set end points and a few other things but a little mechanical work can usually overcome these things. Quite often you can buy a complete system for the cost of a "flight pack" too as long as you are sticking to a non-computer PPM radio. Stay with your bargain for now. You will know when you "NEED" a computer.
Old 04-26-2006, 08:22 AM
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Campy
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

ORIGINAL: SICKSAND

I'm just getting into the sport and just ordered the tower 40 trainer.It comes with a 4-channel radio,I wanted to get more planes eventually so do I need a expensive radio right now?
The short answer is no.

The long answer:

If you decide to stay in the sport you will find a computer radio VERY nice. The cost difference between a standard radio and a computer radio is not that much initially, however, if you decide to stay with the hobby, buying the computer radio initially will save you money since you will not need to purchase another radio later on.

With a standard radio (non computer) you must reset the trims for each different plane you fly. With a computer radio you store the trim settings in memory for each plane you fly. When you turn the radio on, you specify which plane you want (usually by a number, but that is changing) and it sets the trims for that plane and which servos are in normal or reversed mode. If you are using functions such as coupling the ailerons and rudder, it also will set those parameters.
Computer radios store multiple planes in memory. Depending on the radio and model, you can store from 3 planes to 99 planes in memory.

I don't know if Tower will let you "upgrade" the radio or not. If not, it may pay you to order everything separately.

If you decide to get a computer radio, I suggest a MINIMUM of a 6 channel radio. (by your 3rd or 4th plane you will probably be wanting flaps and/or retractable landing gear) While the most common known brands are JR, Airtronics, HiTec and Futaba, you may want to also investigate the Polk's Tracker III radio. http://www.polkshobby.com/ That radio can be used on ANY channel with ANY SHIFT (brand) receiver. I have a Tracker and really like the functions and abilities of the radio. Their service and help (if needed) is outstanding, plus the radio has a 5 year warranty vs 1 - 3 year with other brands.

Hope this helps.
Old 04-26-2006, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Stick with the radio you bought and don't worry about a computer radio. The benefits of a computer radio won't be significant for learning. While it's true that things like end point adjustment on a computer radio "can" make setup easier, it's actually better to do as much as possible mechanically, and only use EPA if fine tuning is needed. There's also very little "wasted" money if you start with a 4 channel radio and upgrade later. The cost of a 4 channel radio system is usually very little more than a flight pack (the parts that go in the plane).
Old 04-26-2006, 08:58 AM
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RCKen
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

I've been flying for about 10 years now and instructing for a little bit more than 6 years. While having computer radio is nice when you have multiple planes I think that the new pilots should stay with the standard "bare bones" radio for learning to fly. Why?? Plain and simple, the student needs to learn to fly the plane. With computer radios there are a lot of "extras" that make it easier for a pilot when flying. These extras included (but not limited to) aileron to rudder mix, flaperons, end point adjustments, and exponential. While all of these are great features that do help pilots to fly their planes, it can hurt a student while they are learning to fly. The reason for this is because the student quickly learns to rely on the radio to perform things that the student needs to know. If they rely on the radio and never learn the skills then that will become a weakness down the road as the advance to more capable planes. It my opinion that a student who can learn these skills when learning to fly will be a better pilot in long run. Especially true would be a student who learns to use the rudder for more than just steering the plane on the ground..

I'm not saying that it's impossible to use a computer radio and learn the basics, but rather I'm saying that it's unlikely. Come on, we're all human. We like to play with things. A computer radio has all kinds of neat bells and whistles that are very hard to resist. I like to recommend a student to have a plain jane radio because they won't be tempted to play with the bells and whistles because they aren't there to start with. For example, at our field we had a new student come out for instruction. I asked if he was ready to go up and he said he needed to get his plane put together and sat up. He unpacked everything and started to put it together. During this time we saw him fiddling with his radio, we just assumed that he was checking it all. 2 and half hours later he finally came up to use and said that he just couldn't get the aileron to rudder mix set up correctly. Big sigh here!!! We asked him where he picked up that he needed that mix in his plane and he told us that he read it right here on RCU. After clearing that out of his radio we had him in the in about 10 minutes.

As I've said I have been flying for 10 years now. While I do have several computer radios I don't have more than 1 plane on any of them. All told I have 10 radios now. Most are non-computer radios and I use those as much or more than I do the computer radios.

Hope this helps

Ken
Old 04-26-2006, 09:03 AM
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RCKen
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Sorry for the second post, but I had some fat fingers on the keyboard and accidentally submitted the post before I was finished with it.

To continue on with what I was talking about. With computer radios you can have shortcuts that keep you from completely learning to fly correctly. The same is true when it comes to setting up an airplane. Using some of the features of a computer radio like EPA (end point adjustment) can hurt you when it comes to your plane. An airplane (any plane) needs to be mechanically correct before any other adjustments are made. This means making all the adjustments using the hardware on the plane to get it to fly correctly. For instance, when you are trimming out a control surface you should fly the plane to get your trim adjustments and then adjust the plane so that the trim tab on the radio is set back to center position. This will make your plane mechanically correct. Too many times I've seen people start making changes with their radio before they ever touch the plane. In most cases you should be able to completely adjust the plane mechanically and NEVER have to make changes with the radio. Learning how to do this correctly will serve a pilot well throughout their flying lifetime.

Hope this helps

Ken
Old 04-26-2006, 10:17 AM
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Ken Erickson
 
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Another consideration for a new R/Cer is the fact that when you get your instructor to buddy-box you, remember who is going to be holding the computer radio and who is going to have what is most likely to be a four channel buddy-box.

I have been flying r/c since 1966. Have been instructing since 1973. Have never used more than 4 channels. Have only used dual rates in the last 4 years. Computer radios are nice. Some planes require them or mechanical mixers. I now have three, racers on one, trainers on the second, and electrics on the Spectrum.

Still believe that a beginner benefits from learning to set everything up. Also, as mentioned before, the complete 4-channel radio usually costs only $10.00 or so more than a flight pack, and you get a transmitter battery. No money is wasted, as you are going to buy the computer radio system complete for that second plane.

Soapbox.

Enjoy the flying,

Ken, AMA 19352
Old 04-26-2006, 10:23 AM
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RCKen
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Another thing you will have from the basic radio is that down the road it can be used as a buddy box. You may never train a student but it's nice to have a buddy box available. As a new pilots skills improve and they start to move up to more advanced planes they still will seek out experienced pilots to help them on the first flights of their new planes. Having a buddy box of your own means that the experienced pilot can actually buddy box you on your new planes in case you get into trouble with the new plane.

I've seen this happen it the past too. A pilot has all of his planes on one computer radio and had to send that radio in for service. Since he didn't have any other transmitters he was grounded without his radio. If you have a bare bones transmitter you can at least still fly in this situation.

Hope this helps

Ken
Old 04-26-2006, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

ORIGINAL: RCKen
To continue on with what I was talking about. With computer radios you can have shortcuts that keep you from completely learning to fly correctly. The same is true when it comes to setting up an airplane. Using some of the features of a computer radio like EPA (end point adjustment) can hurt you when it comes to your plane. An airplane (any plane) needs to be mechanically correct before any other adjustments are made. This means making all the adjustments using the hardware on the plane to get it to fly correctly...
Let me add a bit to this. Last summer I bought a boat that was already setup. I know, this is a plane forum, but the lesson is applicable, trust me! When I started looking through the radio adjustments I found that the steering endpoints were dialed down to about 40%. [X(] Apparently what had happened is the initial setting was too sensitive, so the previous owner just kept reducing the endpoints until he got it where he liked it. While this is an ok thing to do as a temporary fix, while at the pond, it would have been better if he had readjusted the linkages when he got home.

Some readers may ask, why is this better? The short answer is that by dialing down the EPA adjustments, instead of correcting the linkages, only a portion of the total servo throw was being used. This results in lower resolution and creates extra wear on a smaller part of the servo's pot.

So, this provides an example of a feature that's often touted as a benefit of a computer radio that a beginner is actually better off ignoring. Get the mechanical setup right and EPA isn't even required.
Old 04-26-2006, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Can't count how many times I did a fast Preflight, checked the travel of the elevator, waggled good so handlaunch toss & BAM into the dirt. Seems once again I looked at the waggle instead of verifying the UP is UP: I left it reversed from a different plane, so I pulled up just a bit, which dove the plane, so more back stick to correct and piledrive the plane from full down elevator... 0.7second flight from a reversed channel.

Got a TX with model memory, no problem with that since.
Old 04-26-2006, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Agreed, you dont NEED a computer radio. Certainly not with a trainer.

However,, if you stick with the hobby you will want one and if you get really serious which can happen faster than you think, take it from me, you will need one eventually. I have been at this for just over 3 years and I have my share of wood on the mantle and in the trash can. Much of my success I would not have had without a good computer radio to deal with what a good mechanical setup cannot correct.
But you can only trim out a plane so much and then you have to mix out the design flaws.

If you have the self discipline to leave the subtrims and atv's alone on your 1st plane and learn to setup a plane mechanically and with good geometry you will be miles ahead when you progress to a plane that truly requires precise setup and a computer radio can be a good investment if you have the $$.. Even then its best to only use a comp transmitter to tune/mix out that last little bit that you just cant quite get mechanically.

There is a lot to be said for what Chuck, Ken and Campy and Minn have expressed.... All are 100% correct. And they do make a really good point. If you think you will be serious, and you find that you have some skill, its entirely possible that you may be instructing new pilots in less than a year. So buying the basic 4 channel can be handy for when you are ready to instruct and need a good buddy box. I gave my 1st transmitter, an airtronics 4 channel to a friend. Now I just use the clubs "house" buddy boxes. It would be handy to have one of my own to teach with.
Old 04-27-2006, 09:19 AM
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Glen Wearden
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

I"ve been flying for 3 years with the same Futaba set up I bought for $150. When I add airplanes, I just get a flight pack. I just use the "dip" switches to set up the different airplanes. Simple, cheap, and it works. I've had a lot of crashes, but never due to the radio. I've seen a lot of crashes when the pilots had fancy radios, but got confused when setting them up. Glen
Old 04-27-2006, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Mmmm...Need?

well,

Do you NEED air conditioning, power steering, cruise control, power windows and a CD player?? There are some planes for which you NEED a computer radio, but for the most part it's purely a modern convenience.

That being said, what do you want to spend your time doing? Setup or flying? I am on my second computer radio and I have 3 analog radios which I have never used...long story...took a 12 year break before I decided to get an instructor.

You should ALWAYS set your plane up as close to perfectly as you can, whether you have a computer radio or not. The thing I like most is I can set-up as many planes as I want and only do it once per plane. I can program the throttle servo so it gives the power response I prefer. I can remove roll and pitch coupling, mix rudder with ailerons, use flaperons and switch from low rates to high rates at will. I can do all of this while flying, and I can choose to remove all mixes with the flip of a switch.

You will want a computer radio at some point if you stay in the hobby. Personally, I am glad I learned on a computer radio, but I am also glad I learned on a CHEAP computer radio. As a student, I constantly put the thing in a bad place, spilled fuel, oil, cleaners, dust and debris etc... (My second computer radio is staying much cleaner).

Learn to fly on any radio you like. They all do the same thing on a trainer. Then decide what computer radio you want and get it later. (JR 9303) (Futaba 14MZ), (JR 10X), (Hitec Prism 7) ETC.....


Welcome to the end of 'Free-Time' and 'Disposable-Income' as you know them.
Old 04-27-2006, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

No, you don't need one! I flew the first twenty years without one. However, now that I have one, I wouldn't buy one that wasn't! They're just plain nice and have features I find very useful and choose not to be without.

For starting out, buy what you can afford. If you can afford a computer radio, why not go for it? However, what's more important is to be compatable with whatever buddy system you link up with.
Old 04-28-2006, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

I bought a 6 channel computer radio with my trainer (Kadet LT-40). I certainly could have gotten by with a basic 4 channel set but I'd be kicking myself had I not bought one. For flight training, I only used the trim memory and exponential controls. The trim memory was nice since it would electronically save the correct trim settings. If I used a std radio and accidently moved the trim levers (quite possible with my then 12 year old son who loves to fiddle with all the gear) I'd have to repeatedly retrim.

No, you don't really need a computer radio to start out on but you'll certainly want one down the road. I do think a Futaba 14MZ would be a bit much though...
Old 04-28-2006, 01:22 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

SickSand,
I have been flying R/C for 14 years. I have a couple of Futaba Skysport 6 channel non-computer radios I use all the time. I fly Warbirds and Aerobatic planes with both radios. I also have a Hitech Prism 7 computer radio, but I don't use half of its capabilities. I really don't need help from the transmitter to fly an airplane. What I do need is to know my aircraft and how to fly it proficiently. I use the RUDDER of the airplane to turn, the ailerons to bank the airplane and the elevator to keep it level, all while managing the throttle. Now, some guys are very lazy and turn with ailerons with overpowered engines. Other guys use their computer radios to program different control surfaces to aid with the maneuver of the airplane. I like to FLY the airplane myself. I am always thinking two moves ahead of the airplane and picture myself in the cockpit of the airplane. I NEVER stop flying the airplane until I turn off the engine after landing back on the ground! You'll do fine with your 4 channel radio. Good luck.

"Keep 'Em Flying!"
Flak
Old 04-28-2006, 07:23 AM
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MinnFlyer
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

I left it reversed from a different plane........

Got a TX with model memory, no problem with that since.
Until you try to fly Model 2 with the Tx left on Model 1.

I never use multiple model memory for just that reason. I have seen extremely good, intelligent pilots total their planes due to taking off with the wrong model set on their Tx.
Old 04-28-2006, 07:38 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

I left it reversed from a different plane........

Got a TX with model memory, no problem with that since.
Until you try to fly Model 2 with the Tx left on Model 1.

I never use multiple model memory for just that reason. I have seen extremely good, intelligent pilots total their planes due to taking off with the wrong model set on their Tx.

Thank you, Thank you very muuuuuuch!. I have had a computer radio for several years. My reason is that I use the same switches for the same functions on all my planes such as retracts , flaps and such.
If you have several transmitters, some switchs are not in the same area or not their at all. Along with what minn is saying, this can cause a brain fart and you can drop the gear but instead drop a flap and down she goes. (Seen it done). Or change the idle speed with the engine kill switch?
Old 04-28-2006, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

"Or change the idle speed with the engine kill switch?"
well, technicly, that switch did change the idleing of the engine

Flew a year with non-comp, worked just fine (when I didn't screwup preflight)
More options and features are, well, they are nice, but optional. Good training & proceedures will be fine with a non-comp radio- you can have the TX add some rudder with the roll, or you can do it yourself.
Old 04-28-2006, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

I left it reversed from a different plane........

Got a TX with model memory, no problem with that since.
Until you try to fly Model 2 with the Tx left on Model 1.

I never use multiple model memory for just that reason. I have seen extremely good, intelligent pilots total their planes due to taking off with the wrong model set on their Tx.
I have a very simple system that prevents this. Each of my planes has a piece of a foam with a number corresponding to the memory slot on the radio. The foam is normally slipped over the prop. When I go to fly a plane, the foam on the prop is a reminder to change the memory setting. I remove the foam from the prop and change the transmitter to the corresponding number. I then slip the piece of foam onto the end of the tx antenna. When I'm done flying a plane, the foam comes off the tx antenna and back onto the prop. In addition to this, when I do a range check, and before every flight, I stand behind the plane and confirm that each surface moves in the correct direction.
Old 04-28-2006, 10:59 AM
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RCKen
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

As far as moving the trims go, it never hurts your skills to have to adjust the trim. In fact, when I am training a student I intentionally move the trim settings on his buddy box every trip to the field. This makes him have to adjust the trims at the start of the day. It gets him in practice of doing it, and in the long run it helps make people less afraid of having to do trim flights on new planes.

Another thing that helps is to mechanically adjust the trims so they are in the center of the throw. I learned to do this on the first computer radio that I used, the older Airtronics computer radios (Quasar and Radiant) didn't have trim memory. The trims wouldn't be saved when you switched planes, so you would have to retrim the planes when you switched back and forth. So what I did to fix this is after the trim flight was done I would mechanically adjust the throws on the plane so that the trim on the radio was moved back to the center neutral position. This way planes aren't out of trim as I switch back and forth. This is actually a great habit to get into no matter what when you set up a plane. I do this on all of my planes now, regardless if they have a computer radio or not.

Ken
Old 04-30-2006, 03:42 PM
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elenasgrumpy
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Default RE: do you really need a computer radio????

Sounds like you bought the RTF version of the Tower Trainer. It is a perfectly good radio to use while learning to fly & after as well. Both my NexStar & Tower trainers still have the original 4 channel radio that came with them, & those are the radios I still fly those two planes with. They work great.

I have bought a computer radio for other planes since then, but I still fly the Trainers everytime I go out. I use them for a "warm up flight" before I ever fly one of my more aerobatic planes, & sometimes I just plain don't feel like messing with taking all the planes out & like to keep it simple so I just toss the Trainers into their rack & fly only the Trainers with their non-computer radios that day.

The answer is simply NO you do not need a computer radio.

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