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.51 engine too big?

Old 03-06-2008, 10:08 AM
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Default .51 engine too big?

I just got a Nexstar, and it can use up to a .51 engine, so I want to put a SuperTigre .51 in it. My question is: can I put this engine in another .40 size plane (my second plane) if it is rated for up to a .46? Tower's site says "the .51 is for adding some extra kick to you .40 size plane for increased climbs, snaps, etc."

I like the larger size because I plan on using 6 channels with 6 servos in the future, for flaps and ailerons, etc.

Thanks.
Old 03-06-2008, 10:40 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

There is no replacement for displacement.
Old 03-06-2008, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

The ST .51 is a small engine for it's displacement (aside from the muffler) and should fit in just about any .40-.46 plane. I've never run this engine but the recommended prop sizes seem small for a .51 (only up to a 10x6). Compare that to an OS .46AX or .55 AX both of which are only slightly larger (but more expensive). I'm not necessarily knocking the ST but that specification/recommendation on prop size is a little curious.
Old 03-06-2008, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?


ORIGINAL: eric97217

There is no replacement for displacement.
I love that quote! And totally agree with it! I have a few .40 size planes and they all have .50+ engines on them except one........the one that has the .46 I wish it had a bigger engine. The others fly great with the extra power.
Old 03-06-2008, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

Prop sizes in manual: 10x8, 11x6 for break-in; 9x8,10x6,10x7,10x8,11x5,11x6 for flying. I'm new, so I don't know what any of this means, other than the diameter of prop and pitch (don't know how they affect performance, etc.)
Old 03-06-2008, 11:05 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?


ORIGINAL: jerzdvt

I just got a Nexstar, and it can use up to a .51 engine, so I want to put a SuperTigre .51 in it. My question is: can I put this engine in another .40 size plane (my second plane) if it is rated for up to a .46? Tower's site says "the .51 is for adding some extra kick to you .40 size plane for increased climbs, snaps, etc."

I like the larger size because I plan on using 6 channels with 6 servos in the future, for flaps and ailerons, etc.

Thanks.
I wouldn't worry about the addition of two servos creating too much weight for a good .46. On a high wing trainer, that weight would be negligable.

Super Tigres can be a great value. I had a .46 that I was really starting to like before dumb thumbs send it straight into the ground at a high rate of speed. One caution, they are not a "run it straight out of the box" engine like an OS. They need to be broken in and properly tuned. I know some people have had challenges with getting the mid-range adjusted.

Old 03-06-2008, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?


ORIGINAL: jerzdvt


I like the larger size because I plan on using 6 channels with 6 servos in the future, for flaps and ailerons, etc.
That would probably be more like 7 servos on 5 channels, 1 throttle, 1 rudder, 1elevator, 2 ailerons, 2 flaps.
Up to an OS 55AX would be ok on most 40 size planes.
I am not a big fan of Super Tiger and after my limited experienxe with a g90 I will never own another one, but that is me, you will get mixed reviews on them.
Good luck with yours.
Old 03-06-2008, 11:37 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

I've spent enough money for now, so OS is not an option. Between Magnum 46, SuperTigre .45 or .51.

One of the trainers at my club w/ a hangar full of planes said he LOVES his Super Tigre; I figured if he's training me I should be in good shape.

Nexstar manual has some weird configurations for servos and channels; it says you need a 6 channel radio (maybe since there aren't many 5's?) and have the option of using 1 or 2 servos for flaps.

So it sounds like there's no reason not to get a .51...
Old 03-06-2008, 11:40 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?


ORIGINAL: jerzdvt


I like the larger size because I plan on using 6 channels with 6 servos in the future, for flaps and ailerons, etc.

Thanks.
What ever you do, DO NOT cut the ailerons to incorporate flaps. The wing is equipped with pockets for aileron servos. Just use these and create full span flapperons. This plane will not tip stall with flapperons at full down deflection, and the NextStar needs all the aileron throw it can get. By cutting them you just reduced the amount of aileron you have available. I can try and find pictures of one I put together for my son with the flapperons deployed if you want to see them.

Hogflyer
Old 03-06-2008, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

Yes you need a 6 channel radio but you don't use all 6 channels. Channel 5 is for retractable landing gear on most radio systems.
Old 03-06-2008, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

If I end up using 2 servos for flaps, and 2 servos for ailerons, can't I program the flaps to work as ailerons when I want them to?

I'm surprised it would perform that poorly with flaps cut when the instructions explicitly say to do so when you're comfortable with the plane.
Old 03-06-2008, 11:55 AM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

I personally wouldnt waste the time and money to add flaps to an already easy to fly plane. Trainers just dont need flaps. More of a novelty. Save the money/servos for a sport plane that youll have fun on flaps with.

Have you considered a TT Pro 46 for an engine. Nice and easy to tune after a couple of tanks thru it.

Cheers.
Old 03-06-2008, 12:10 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

I really can't spend the extra $20 right now for TT; just paid to join club, have to get AMA, and already spent $400 this week buying the plane and gear.
Old 03-06-2008, 12:14 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

So recommendations for a first engine that will be a good second/third as well:
Magnum .46
Super Tigre .45
Super Tigre .51
OS .46LA (what I got by accident)
Old 03-06-2008, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

I have seen good things from the Evolution trainer engine as another option for you.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=EVOE100
I really like the TT Pro but if you can't afford the extra, you can't afford the extra.
A guy at my club went to a swap meet and someone was selling the TT Pro46's for $50 each, brand new. I wish I had been there.
PS: do you already have the OS 46 LA? why not use that?
Old 03-06-2008, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

I read a lot of negative reviews about the OS .46 LA, and people in my club said that I'm much better off with a ball-bearing motor. The Nexstar would require an extra mounting bracket if I kept the .46LA (not a big deal). The Nexstar's a heavy plane, so more power sounds good, and I want to feel good about the motor that I have pulling my plane.
Old 03-06-2008, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

Also I really like the Evo engines, but I have to get something from Tower in the same price range to keep the deal I got from them. The Magnum is the next step up from the OS.46LA, but with cost of extra break-in prop and non-included glow plug, the STG51 is about the same price (includes glow plug, utilizes the Nexstar size prop for break-in).

Any thoughts on the OS.46LA?
Old 03-06-2008, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?


ORIGINAL: jerzdvt

So recommendations for a first engine that will be a good second/third as well:
Magnum .46
Super Tigre .45
Super Tigre .51
OS .46LA (what I got by accident)
Those are four of the best values in sport engines on the market today, jerzdvt. You will be happy to fly any of them. Power for the dollar, I like the Magnum XLS .46A or the Super Tigre .45 ABC. With the O.S. .46 LA you'll be sacrificing a little bit of power for super easy tuning and dead solid reliability. The Super Tigre .51 is a little more expensive but can turn larger props well.

I'd be happy to own any of the four.
Old 03-06-2008, 06:59 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

first off the nextar is far from a performance plane,secondly at 6lbs which isn't really that heavy, and that giant wing you could putt it around the sky with a good 40 size engine as long as you had a long runway to take off from.
I totally understand not having a extra 20-40$ but the engine is the life blood of a airplane so skimping there is a bit of a mistake,if you have a OS 46LA then use that untill you can afford something better like a OS46AX,and if you dont have a engine yet check with your club, a member might have a decent engine you can use untill you get enough scratch to afford something nice for the future.
I have a fxi 46 that came with the RTF and a AX46 the AX has more grunt for sure and for 109.$ its a good price for what your getting, and will power any 40 size plane you can throw at it.
my Nextar has a OS 61 and floats putting a overly large engine on this airframe isn't going to help that much,unless your planning for the future if thats the case then get a 46-55AX after you save a few more $$, instead of spending less in the short term, get the best possable engine you can.this is just a floaty trainer not much of a stunter performance can come from your next planes after you master the basics
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?


ORIGINAL: jerzdvt

Also I really like the Evo engines, but I have to get something from Tower in the same price range to keep the deal I got from them. The Magnum is the next step up from the OS.46LA, but with cost of extra break-in prop and non-included glow plug, the STG51 is about the same price (includes glow plug, utilizes the Nexstar size prop for break-in).

Any thoughts on the OS.46LA?
Since your on budget, which I certainly can understand, I have to agree with bigtim. Fly the 46LA and save up for the better engine of your choice.
Also you dont really need to spend money on a break in prop. Just break in the engine on what you intend to fly.
Old 03-06-2008, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

One more vote for the 46LA. It has slightly less power than the AX but there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. In fact as far as easy tuning and dependability it is probably the best engine on your list.
All that said, even with less power, it is still more than enough engine for your Nexstar.
Old 03-06-2008, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

"Fly the 46LA and save up for the better engine of your choice."

Magnum XLS-46, Super Tigre GS-45 and Super Tigre G-51 are the better engines of my choice, and I can get them now. Are you saying that I should not get any of these, fly the 46LA, and wait to get a Thunder Tiger or an OS46AX? I can't see myself buying another plane AND another engine next year, so I thought one of those three engines would be the better choice.

Sorry I"m confused and really tired! [&o]
Old 03-06-2008, 10:38 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

The .46 LA will be a terrific sport engine for your next plane as well. The .46 LA will turn an 11x6 propeller around 11,500 rpms on 10% nitro, and will provide plenty of power for a variety of sport planes.

My advice? Fly the engine you already own and start thinking about what you want to fly after the Nexstar. The .46 LA will be plenty powerful for a Sig Four Star .40, a Great Planes Big Stik .40, a Goldberg Tiger 2, a Great Planes Rapture .40, a Hangar 9 Pulse XT .40, a Hangar 9 Super Stick/Ultra Stik .40, a Seagull Models Spacewalker II, a Phoenix Models Dolphin .46 ARF, a Tower Hobbies Voyager .40 ARF, a Great Planes Easy Sport .40, a Goldberg Skylark 56 ARF, or any of the dozens more sport planes not already listed.

The one caveat with flying a plain bearing engine like the .46 LA is to simply use fuel with plenty of castor oil in the lubrication. Castor oil has a thicker viscocity than synthetic oil and it helps "float" the crankshaft in the bushing. It also helps seal up the crank case for better compression and smoother performance.

The ideal fuel would be 10% or 15% nitro with 20% all castor lubrication. If your fuel supplier (usually your local hobby store) only carries sport fuel that is 20% castor and 80% synthetic oil, just buy some castor oil from your fuel supplier or your local pharmacy and add it to your fuel. 8 ounces per gallon will raise your total oil content by about 6% or so and provide the extra castor oil your .46 LA will need to run well.

If your fuel supplier only sells glow fuel with 100% synthetic lubrication, then a plain bearing engine like the .46 LA isn't a good choice.

Most folks who bash plain-bearing engines like the O.S. LA series never ran them with the proper amount of castor oil. In many cases, they bash plain-bearing engines without ever having flown one at all. Their buddies tell them that ball bearing engines are way better, so they never try a plain-bearing model.

Ball-bearing engines can produce higher rpms and are less sensitive to lubrication requirements when you're shopping for fuel. Plain bearing engines are lighter weight and don't have any ball bearings to freeze up or wear out. Both designs have their places and that's why top engine manufacturers such as O.S. Max, Enya, Thunder Tiger, and K&B/MECOA still make plain bearing engines.

You're going to be flying a long, long time before you run out of really great airplanes that are a perfect match for the .46 LA engine.
Old 03-06-2008, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

Hmm, thanks BigEd.

For a second plane, I like the scale "private jet" looking planes; something with a mid-low wing. I'm really in this for the "novelties" of retractable landing gear, flaps, ailerons, all that stuff that you see in real planes. I'm a mechanical engineering student and really into aero/fluid dynamics, combustion process, and just things that "work".

The Hangar 9 Cherokee is a sweet looking plane for a second plane. Running the .46LA will save me a bunch of cash, too =)
Old 03-06-2008, 11:34 PM
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Default RE: .51 engine too big?

That Cherokee ARF from Hangar 9's Value Series would be a great second airplane, and the .46 LA will fly it well. See how easy this hobby is?

Glad to hear you're feeling better about owning a .46 LA, too. It's funny that plain bearing engines get such a bad rap when only the top engine manufacturers make them while all of the cheapest Chinese engines are all ball-bearing models.

Be sure to post some pictures of your H9 Cherokee once you get it ordered.
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