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Cocky equals Loss of Plane

Old 08-20-2008, 02:11 PM
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F4U Corsair
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Default Cocky equals Loss of Plane

Well it had to happen sooner or later, I've been flying the heck out of my Avistar, got cocky and went to high rates for the last flight, a combo of flying way to low and doing more than I was ready for cost me a plane and possible my engine. I was flying at about 50' full speed (I know, that was stupid), and did a nice aileron roll coming down the runway, decided to do a snap roll toward the end of the runway and got her inverted and then overcontrolled and ended up driving her into the ground. Wing in 3 pcs, Fuse gone back to the 2nd former, found all the equipment, but the ST45 took a hard hit, broke the muffler mounting pc., some of the cooling fins, carb throttle arm. Took it all apart and cleaned everything real well, put it back together and it looks ok, but I have some backlash in the piston/crank connecting rod at the top of the stroke. Not sure if that was there before the wreck or not. Call ST and they were no help, so I'll take it apart tomorrow and let the engine doctors at the club look it over tomorrow. Anyway, lesson learned for a rookie. Stay high when learning/executing acrobatics especially inverted stuff and don't fly at crazy speeds, especially with a advanced trainer or it will take a big swipe out of your wallet! Back to flying the TT Worlds trainer for the next few weeks.

I've got a Big Stik on it's way and a new OS46AX. Ouch $$$ Going to make it into my 1st tail dragger before the maiden flight

DG.
Old 08-20-2008, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane

Sorry to hear about the crash. Good thing you kept the old trainer, eh? Hard lesson, but probably one you won't forget soon. Keep flying, you will get better.
Old 08-20-2008, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane

I always tell my students as they solo that they are in the most danger of crashing that they have ever been in.....where desire over comes capability.....so don't be too hard on yourself...remember this when inverted and in doubt...roll out
Good Flying
Old 08-20-2008, 02:50 PM
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RCKen
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane

Sorry to hear about the crash. We've all been there, so you are among good company!!

You would be shocked to know how many planes are lost immediately after the saying "Hey you all, watch this!!!!!"

Ken
Old 08-20-2008, 03:16 PM
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Steve Steinbring
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane

ORIGINAL: jetmech05

...remember this when inverted and in doubt...roll out

Good overall advice, but then again...................Maybe Yes ????? and again maybe No!

IMHO it all depends upon the situation and the airplane. Just this morning I had a student put his Nexstar unexpectedly almost inverted and in a dive at about 40 feet above the ground. Not too much time to make a decision, my choice was to continue rolling inverted and loop(modified Spit S) it out. It all happened very quickly and the dive angle was fairly steep.

WHY? Because the Nexstar is a dog in a roll especially with the nose started down. Anyway I got it out with full power with a fair amount of room to spare with a surprised student asking what happened? Answer... he got disoriented, we were just starting to practice right hand patterns, the event happened with the airplane coming towards us.

I used your sage advice a few weeks prior where another student had a mental lapse on takeoff rolling the airplane to about 120 degrees of bank about 15 feet above the ground for some reason????? I rolled it through out of trouble because the attitude would allow that solution for quick recovery.
Old 08-20-2008, 06:09 PM
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nobodytwo
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane


[/quote]
........

IMHO it all depends upon the situation and the airplane. Just this morning I had a student put his Nexstar unexpectedly almost inverted and in a dive at about 40 feet above the ground. Not too much time to make a decision, my choice was to continue rolling inverted and loop(modified Spit S) it out. It all happened very quickly and the dive angle was fairly steep.

WHY? Because the Nexstar is a dog in a roll especially with the nose started down. Anyway I got it out with full power with a fair amount of room to spare with a surprised student asking what happened? Answer... he got disoriented, we were just starting to practice right hand patterns, the event happened with the airplane coming towards us.
.............
[/quote]

Don't blame the NexStar because you didn't catch the student's error. Once the wings pass 45 degrees it ought to be your airplane and at 40 feet there shouldn't even be an airplane. Congrats on the save!

Old 08-21-2008, 05:43 AM
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Steve Steinbring
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane

ORIGINAL: nobodytwo

........
Don't blame the NexStar because you didn't catch the student's error. Once the wings pass 45 degrees it ought to be your airplane and at 40 feet there shouldn't even be an airplane. Congrats on the save!

.........
[/quote]


Greg,

Oh, I don't blame the airplane it is what it is!

The fact is this student was doing quite well before that instance. There comes a time where you have to start training for landing so we have to come descend to a reasonable pattern altitude to prepare for approaches.

Glad you have never been caught this way. BTW I do teach shallow banked turns and encourage smooth as possible controlled flight. Its just that some students are better coordinated than others and one never knows what can happen or when it will happen especially if its not at an anticipated turn corner.

Good flying!

Steve



Old 08-21-2008, 05:58 AM
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jetmech05
 
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane

Come on nobody, kinda harsh..I've had students get a set of no thumbs (would have to improve to be dumb thumbs) and do some wild stuff so quickly, all you can do is react...nice save
Old 08-22-2008, 01:27 AM
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Spacemonkey71
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Default RE: Cocky equals Loss of Plane

RCKen, you just echo'd a redneck's last words:

"DUDE! Watch this !" (it usually involves firearms, alcohol, large reptiles (rattlesnakes or alligators for some reason) or jumping from something REALLY high - with alcohol )

The WORST "DUDE! WATCH THIS" I've heard of in a LONG time involved the pilot of a low wing Piper (full size, he was a private pilot). He "thought" he could do loops and aileron rolls and even TOLD everyone HOW he was going to do it...... THEN HE DID IT [:'(]

The short of it is that his plane hit the ground like a missle. Why? Because Dr.Pilot (he was a surgeon) didn't think to find out about acrobatics and radial engine planes like the low wing pipers have do NOT typically have specially built and pressurized oil or fuel lines or specialized pumps that can run inverted. So, when you "flip it over", the engine starves itself of fuel and/or oil, and you become an FAA Statistic..... Sad, but true story.....

As for gregoryda getting inverted and "pulling up into the ground", I think that's PROBABLY the MOST common crash I've heard. I probably heard 4-5 people last weekend tell about how they went inverted and then for whatever reason, they "dug potatos" with their plane..... My controller actually has an "inverted" switch for inverted flight, but several veteran pilots have told me to forget that it's even THERE and always remember that pulling UP on the elevator while upsidedown has NASTY results! ( I even SAW a guy do this recently with his BRAND NEW Hanger 9 P51D PTS..... it made me sick just WATCHING it...)

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