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Glue 101

Old 08-22-2008, 03:15 PM
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chemie
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Default Glue 101

So, there is CA thin, medium, thick.
Epoxy 5 min, 15 min, and 30 min.

Which one to use for what applications? I am looking at a ARF and TH says I will need all three CA but I have no idea how to know which one for which task.....

Also, [link=http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/glue-guide.aspx]gorilla glue[/link] is great for wood; can it replace epoxy for balsa bonding? Their new wood glue on needs 20 min clamp time....
Finally, Gorilla has a new CA which is "impact toughened"; anyone use this vs regular CA? Is it thin, med, or thick?

Thanks for the tutorial.
Old 08-22-2008, 04:16 PM
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ro347
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Default RE: Glue 101

Hey! For Arf Building I use Thing CA and mostly 30 Minute epoxy. My build kit consists of Thin Ca, Thick Ca, 30 min and 5 min epoxy.

I use thin ca to reinforce all joints I can reach in the fuse. I use 30 minute epoxy to reinforce all landing gear areas and the firewall to fuse joints. Use thinned (w/ acetone) 30 minute epoxy to fuelproof. The 5 minute epoxy is used mostly when I try and rig small wood pieces for anything that isnt a major component where I dont need the strength or the work time.

You can certainly work with only having Thin CA and 30 minute epoxy.
Old 08-22-2008, 04:59 PM
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JohnW
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Default RE: Glue 101

Thin, med, thick CA is all basically the same stuff, just different viscosities. You will get the strongest joint on wood by first getting the parts to fit well, then wick a little thin on both parts. While still wet, apply a layer of medium or thick on one or both parts then join. CA will bond dang near anything, but it can be brittle.

As for polyurethane glue (i.e. gorilla poly, elmers probond poly,etc.) it will bond wood, i.e. balsa, but it’s real strength is on skinning foam cores. It could replace epoxy in some situations. The problem is that poly is hard to control how it cures, i.e. how much foaming. I’d stick with the epoxy and not deviate from written instructions as a beginner. As you progress, you will build up your list of prefered adhesives.
Old 08-22-2008, 05:12 PM
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RCKen
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Default RE: Glue 101

Here is my list of adhesives that I use. Please realize that I do a lot of building planes from kits and plans, so my list of adhesives is based on that as well as working with ARF's.

I used to use CA's for my building but about 9 years ago I switched to Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, and I won't go back to the CA's. I feel that my building has improved since I've switched because I have more time to get a joint positioned correctly before the glue sets and you don't get those hard knots in the wood that are impossible to sand. Also I didn't like the reaction my body has to the CA fumes. Many call it a CA allergy, but after I've talked to a few doctors and a couple of chemists I find that it's not an allergy but a simple chemical reaction in your body. The CA fumes react with the moisture in your nose, throat, and lungs to produce some very bad reactions. Over time these reactions can become worse with repeated exposure. I've seen people that can hardly breath for 3 days after using it. I wanted to avoid that from happening before it got to that point. So..... here's what I use for my building.
[ul][*] Elmer's Carpenter's Glue - This is my main adhesive. I use it for the majority of building with balsa and wood to wood contact. For ply's and harder woods I will use epoxy[*] 5 minute epoxy - I do have this around but I very rarerly use it. I will usually use 30 minute, but I have the 5 minute around for quick uses that aren't in critical areas of the plane.[*] 30 minute epoxy - I use this for critical stress areas on the plane such as wing joints, firewall attachments, horizontal and vertical stabilizer, securing hinge points, and other high stress critical areas.[*] CA's - Yes, I know I said I didn't use these but that's not entirely true. I still use them for a couple of things. I keep thin CA around for hardening threads cut into wood for such things as wing bolts. I may also use it to help hold large constructions together while the Elmer's sets. I will put a couple of small drops on the wood to hold it all together while the wood glue dries. I also do reviews for RCU and I use the proper thickness CA adhesive that is called for in the instructions. I do this because we try to do review planes as the instructions call for. I do have medium and thick CA around but don't use them much. Especially the thick, too many people try to use thick CA to fill up gaps in wood joints but this can be bad, it can lead to a false sense of security because the joint will be weak. Nothing beats wood to wood contact in a joint.[*] Formula 560 - This is a canopy adhesive and that's exactly what I use it for, for attaching the canopy to the fuselage[*] Gorilla Glue - I don't use this glue too much because of the way it expands while setting up. This can be bad if you don't have the area secured properly because it can push the parts out of position before it dries. But I've found that it does have several really good uses, one especially good is if you have areas that need to be filled and secured. You can apply the glue and a little water and the glue will expand out into the area you want to fill.[*] Thread locks - Self-explanatory. I use thread lock to keep nuts and screws in place. Always use blue thread lock so you can remove the nut or screw later. Never ever use red thread lock because it's permenant, you won't get your nut or screw off ever again.[*] 3M 77 spray adhesive - This is some great stuff that has lots of uses in our hobby. One that comes to mind right off the bat is when doing cockpits. You can use this spray adhesive to hold items like printed instrument panels in place.
[/ul]

Ken
Old 08-22-2008, 05:27 PM
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carrellh
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Default RE: Glue 101

The Gorilla Wood Glue is an alphilatic resin glue similar to Titebond, Elmers Carpenters Glue, and other white or yellow wood glues. These glues are great for kit building but are not really used a lot when assembling ARFs.

Gorilla Super Glue is CA. I would 'guess' that it is thin or medium since it says to hold or clamp for 30-60 seconds. Not knowing which it is, I'd probably hesitate on buying it compared to something labeled by viscosity.

I try to keep small bottles of thin, medium, and thick CA at all times.

I only have 30 minute, or possibly 45 minute, epoxy. I do not like 'fast' epoxy. I'm not running a race to asemb;le or build my models. For epoxy joints I get it glued and clamped; and leave it alone for 24 hours.

Which ARF are you considering? Many of the ones TH sells have their manuals online. Try to find and download it. Read all of the steps and see what's actually spelled out in the instructions. Sometimes their 'required items' list is a bit generic.
Old 08-22-2008, 07:28 PM
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chemie
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Default RE: Glue 101

4*-40. No manual on TH and have not been able to find anywhere (including SIG site).
But my questions are also general and would equally apply if I decide to go with the kit instead.
Old 08-22-2008, 08:11 PM
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ChuckW
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Default RE: Glue 101

For that ARF you'll probably need only 30 minute epoxy for gluing the wings together & tail in place and thin CA for the hinges and hardening screw holes. Be sure to get some denatured alcohol from the hardware store paint department too for wiping off excess epoxy before it sets.

I've pretty much given up on faster setting epoxies except for quick field repairs. They just don't allow as much working time and besides, 30 minutes is still pretty fast. I also keep medium CA around since I use it a lot. I have a bottle of thick but I use so little that it usually goes bad before it is emptied. Then there is traditional wood glue which I like for some applications in kit building; Titebond is my favorite. For canopies, Formula 560 works great but I try to screw canopies on whenever I can so they can be replaced easier if I damage them. Blue Loktite is another must-have to keep things from vibrating loose. There are also things like Elmer's white glue, Sigment, a glue stick and other stuff on my bench but they rarely get used.
Old 08-22-2008, 10:04 PM
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carrellh
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Default RE: Glue 101

You're right that there are no online manuals for SIG products. I have the 4*60 ARF and it only required 30 minute epoxy, thin CA, and blue loctite.
Old 08-23-2008, 03:09 PM
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Bladecx2guy
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Default RE: Glue 101

Gorilla glue!!! great stuff!!! Also gorilla tape!!! best part you can get it at frys grocery store for next to nuthn!!!
Old 08-23-2008, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: Glue 101

I agree that gorilla glue is great stuff. I've recently begun using it in place of 5 min epoxy and couldn't be happier. No more trying to hurry up and get the glue mixed and applied and parts positioned before the glue sets. As others have said, the foaming can be a problem though. To get around this I generally just come back and check the piece 20 - 30 min after gluing. Generally all I have to do is press the pieces back together once and they never move again. And it does a nice job of leaving a bead of foam/glue along the corner of your joints too. So no going back over everything and gluing a 2nd time. Just gotta be careful not to let it get out of control. Scrap balsa for scraping up excess foam is a must.

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