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OUTLAW no more...

Old 02-09-2009, 12:12 AM
  #26  
Campgems
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: carrellh

ORIGINAL: flaminheli
So in order for the AMA insurance to cover something you do not have to be flying at an AMA sanctioned field.
Correct. You only have to abide by the safety code. It loosely describes a safe flying area but it does not say you have to fly at a specific location.
I think you need to look at the AMA insurance again. I think you are wrong about it covering you anywhere. Otherwise they wouldn't have instagated the Park Flyer membership, a big mistake in my view. I believe the basic AMA membership only applies to flying at Chartered fields. Am I wrong?? I know that at our field that the AMA insurance/membership is mandatory. If we allow non AMA memberst, full membership, not Park Flyers membership, to fly, we are violating or agreement with our landlord.

Don
Old 02-09-2009, 12:25 AM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: Campgems


ORIGINAL: carrellh

ORIGINAL: flaminheli
So in order for the AMA insurance to cover something you do not have to be flying at an AMA sanctioned field.
Correct. You only have to abide by the safety code. It loosely describes a safe flying area but it does not say you have to fly at a specific location.
I think you need to look at the AMA insurance again. I think you are wrong about it covering you anywhere. Otherwise they wouldn't have instagated the Park Flyer membership, a big mistake in my view. I believe the basic AMA membership only applies to flying at Chartered fields. Am I wrong?? I know that at our field that the AMA insurance/membership is mandatory. If we allow non AMA memberst, full membership, not Park Flyers membership, to fly, we are violating or agreement with our landlord.

Don


But does that pertain to the clubs agreement with the landlord or between the club and the AMA..? I'm thinking the owner of the property would require the club to carry insurance before anyone was allowed to fly there. In that case would the AMA insurance suffice..? I don't know the answer. I don't know what the AMA insurance policy actually states in regards to where you can fly. BUT, it does state that no one shall operate a model aircraft in a careless or reckless manner, which may allow the insurance company to weasel out of any payment if you're not flying at a chartered club field or event... Just food for thought.

Old 02-09-2009, 12:35 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: Campgems


ORIGINAL: carrellh

ORIGINAL: flaminheli
So in order for the AMA insurance to cover something you do not have to be flying at an AMA sanctioned field.
Correct. You only have to abide by the safety code. It loosely describes a safe flying area but it does not say you have to fly at a specific location.
If we allow non AMA memberst, full membership, not Park Flyers membership, to fly, we are violating or agreement with our landlord.

Don

The first time I visited my club; on a meeting night; I brought a small "toy" with me and attempted to fly(never got 1ft off the ground). I hadnt joined AMA then. No one said anything;cause there was only one guy there at that time; I stopped trying to fly it the 2nd time. Stayed for the meeting had a great time and they told me to join AMA. I got a free pattern plane;from a member that was trying to make room; Near the time of the starting of the meeting .I'm thinking on flying electrics at my house; of about 3 acres of open field or a high school gym when the weathers bad;both of this are options when the weather is bad or I dont have the gas and time; but my primary flying field will be my club field
Old 02-09-2009, 12:50 AM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Masonhornet, you are absolutely correct.
Old 02-09-2009, 01:14 AM
  #30  
MikeL
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: Campgems

I believe the basic AMA membership only applies to flying at Chartered fields. Am I wrong??
In this case, yes. The AMA insurance that you carry as an individual doesn't tie you to a particular place, but rather to a standard of conduct. Follow the code of conduct and safety rules, keep your information inside of your airplane, and you're set.

The insurance that the AMA provides to land owners via clubs is contingent upon clubs ensuring that only those bound by the AMA safety code and covered by their AMA membership fly at the site.

The Park Pilot program is an attempt to reach those who might not otherwise have to purchase an AMA membership due to where they fly.
Old 02-09-2009, 07:41 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

I live about 30mi. north from NY city in the town of Croton, it has a park on the Hudson river and there is a bluff that was made into a flying field. The runway is concrete surrounded with mowed grass picnic tables BBQs great view overlooking the Hudson river, the town of Croton took very good care of this park. This was back in the 70s. Building my first plane now and took a ride the other day to see if it was still there. It was but the AMA took over the field
Now it is fenced in with no trespassing unless you are a member signs, picnic tables and the BBQs were gone one locked gate with a giant sign of do‘s and don‘ts on it Signs and rules every place do this can’t do that stand here don’t go there it was very sad to me as I had so much fun there as a kid now it looks like a commercial business and now I need to pay!
Old 02-09-2009, 09:13 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Last weekend I learned a very good reason to appreciate my local club field. I was in Las Vegas for the weekend, and had made arrangements to meet someone at Bennet Field. I'm sure many of you are familiar with this field. It has a large paved runway, and is owned by the city. It was given to the city with the understanding that it would remain a model aircraft field.

I spent about 4 hours there, and in that time I saw some very nice aircraft, but most of the time there were at least 4 other pilots in the air, and sometimes more. There are 5 designated pilot stations, but there were pilots standing near the spectator area flying and people flying near the pits. Everyone was required to be an AMA member, and people caught flying without AMA membership are subject to a $250 fine.

The worst part of the day was when I was on the flight line, trying to keep it safe, when one of the pilots took off with a 2 meter COMP Arf Jet. Beautiful aircraft. During the flight, he decided to do a high speed low altitude pass over the runway. I don't mind the low passes, but there was no warning given to any of the pilots on the flight line. It came from behind me, and scared the Bejeezus outa me!

My point being that municipal and county supported flying sites are good if you can get support, but there is a great deal of comfort knowing that the pilots with you on the flight line are courteous, attentive, and safe. At our club field, I know who I will and won't fly with. I don't get that comfort at open public facilities.

Brad
Old 02-09-2009, 10:31 AM
  #33  
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I never have understood the animosity toward the AMA. I bowl leagues. I have to be a member of the national org. and pay a fee to bowl leagues. I have to have a handicap from a league to bowl in tournaments. I have to pay league and tournament fees. I also get a magazine. sounds a lot like the AMA. If this is not want you want stay out. Fly in your back yard, bowl on your own, but don't cry foul when you can't fly at events or bowl in leagues. If your good prove it join the AMA and compete, what about the PBA or the PGA.
You can't even play softball on a team unless to join. Dennis
Old 02-09-2009, 10:44 AM
  #34  
wzak29
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

You can still bowl without joining a leage AMA took over all the local fields I have choice but to pay them this is whats getting me I have no choice like taxes
Old 02-09-2009, 10:50 AM
  #35  
MikeL
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Of course you have choice. You can fly somewhere else.

AMA membership is a small percentage of what most of us spend on the hobby each year. I tend to believe that the AMA keeps my overall costs down. You're new enough that you probably don't understand the difficulties of securing and keeping a flying field. AMA insurance puts land owners at ease, and allows them to say "yes" to us. Without that, each club would have to negotiate for its own insurance, and also ensure that each club member secured their own personal insurance. Good luck with that!

I fly at a public field. Without the AMA, the county parks department wouldn't feel comfortable allowing us to operate.

Look at the big picture, if you can.
Old 02-09-2009, 10:52 AM
  #36  
goirish
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

You can still fly with out joining AMAjust not a club field that requires AMA for insurance purposes. I live on a farm and I fly off my land lots of times. However I do have AMA for the insurance that if something should go wrong I won't lose the farm. Now I also belong to a club where I am the safety officer so I fly both places. BTWwhen I fly at the farm I do so with 2.4that way I know that I can interfer with someone who may be flying close by. I fly with both 72 and 2.4 at the club field. I speak from experience as to what AMA insurance means.
Old 02-09-2009, 11:01 AM
  #37  
wzak29
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Never stepped onto a AMA field I need to give them a try it’s
Seems by the posts they have a lot to offer that I never considered.
I would still rather spend the $100.00 on a new model instead.
Old 02-09-2009, 11:08 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Wzak. The AMA never took over any fields. The members of the club choice to join the AMA and require AMA members. If you want to blame someone, blame the members. What do you think, the AMA goes around and forces people to join, Gees. New clubs come to them. Dennis
Old 02-09-2009, 11:17 AM
  #39  
goirish
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ORIGINAL: wzak29

I would still rather spend the $100.00 on a new model instead.
Maybe some day AMA will save you more than 100.00-DID ME!!!
Old 02-09-2009, 12:16 PM
  #40  
dignlivn
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If a person cannot afford to pay the AMA
dues, maybe this hobby is Not for them.

JMO,

Bob
Old 02-09-2009, 12:25 PM
  #41  
brett65
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: dignlivn



If a person cannot afford to pay the AMA
dues, maybe this hobby is Not for them.

JMO,

Bob
I agree to a point, but in the case of not having a nearby field and they can safely do it then it doesn't bother me. If where the "outlaws" fly is away from homes, businesses, vehicles, and property then I think maybe starting a grass fire would be the biggest problem.

Since I live in the capitol of OK, there are 3 nice fields that are all less than 30 minutes away. One is 5 min. from where I work, and mine is 15 min. from my house.
Old 02-09-2009, 02:08 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: dignlivn



If a person cannot afford to pay the AMA
dues, maybe this hobby is Not for them.

JMO,

Bob
It is not a matter of not being able to afford it. It is a matter of not wanting to. That is most likely the case for everyone else that does not belong to the AMA also.

Outlaw For Life!!
Old 02-09-2009, 04:23 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Do you realize how silly the "Outlaw For Life!!" thing sounds to most of us? Most people just want to fly their planes. Some like clubs, some don't. Some have to have AMA for where they fly, some don't. Choices are based on situations and preferences. Trying to make it sound as though it's a principled stance is a bit of a stretch.
Old 02-09-2009, 05:39 PM
  #44  
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Oh Well.
Old 02-09-2009, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

ORIGINAL: flaminheli

Outlaw For Life!! The nearest club to me is about 35 minutes away. Why drive all the way to it when I can drive 2 minutes and fly. Let me ask this question. What does a club or the AMA have to offer me, besides insurance. Seeing how I would be giving them money every year, what will they be giving me? Are they going to send me a new plane or engine everytime I pay my dues?

Flaminheli,
Some of us are not so fortunate to have a flying field 2 minutes from there house. I find it amazing that you expect the AMA to buy you a plane just because you send them dues, does your car insurance company buy you a new car just because you send them money? how about your health insurance company? Maybe your bank credit card gives you a $1000 shopping spree just because you pay an annual fee. I've never heard a more dumb response than the one you gave.

Let me tell you what a club gives you, the chance to meet people with the same passion for flying that you have, a safe place to fly, a place where there's someone to take you to the hospital when you chop your finger off flying by yourself. A place where you can enter competitions to test your skill against other people. Or could it be your afraid of flying in front of other people.
Old 02-09-2009, 06:04 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

I belong to the Omahawks RC Club, a long-established flying club that stayed independent of AMA chartering for 53 years.

We used to buy our own annual liability policy and maintain our own insurance for about $250 per year. The company that had underwritten our policy for the last dozen years or so decided to quit doing it. We had to find another insurance company that would issue our club a general liability policy.

The best deal we could find was to pay $1,000 per year for $1 million in coverage, and the policy wouldn't cover an incident where one club member caused harm to another club member or a member's property.

We voted to charter the club with the AMA, and our annual cost is $90 instead of $1000.00. We were the only club out of six in the area that didn't require AMA membership before we decided to charter, but a full 66% of the members were already card-carrying AMA members. Why?

-$25,000 in supplemental medical coverage
-$1,000 in anti-theft coverage for planes and RC equipment
-National lobbying efforts to protect the rights of RC enthusiasts
-AMA membership requirements for contests and fun flies at other clubs across the city and accross the country

After 53 years, we chartered as an AMA club and have been completely happy. Our insurance coverage is much better and our pilots are able to mingle with other clubs at fun fly events and contests. We've worked hard at using AMA resources such as the TAG program to enhance our training efforts and our club's public profile.

In the fall of 2007, about 9 months after we chartered, I was standing next to a fellow club member who was tuning the MDS 1.48 turning a big APC prop on his Funtana 90 ARF when he absent-mindedly put his hand right through the prop in an attempt to adjust the needle valve. He basically cut off the thumb on his right hand, except for the outer skin that hadn't been sliced by the propeller.

The pilot was taken to the hospital for emergency care. He later underwent surgery and physical rehabilitation. He doesn't have full feeling or motion in the thumb (and probably never will), but happily enough he was back out flying again with us late last spring.

His medical insurance picked up the majority of the medical bills from the emergency room, the surgery, and the rehabilitation, but he and his wife were faced with thousands in deductables and non-insured expenses. The AMA's supplemental medical coverage picked up every last cent that their regular medical coverage didn't pay. They had to fill out plenty of paperwork and provide documentation and receipts for the expenses involved, but thanks to the AMA, their final out-of-pocket expenses were $0.00.

If all the AMA had to offer us was "just insurance" then that would be a great reason to join. The AMA offers a great deal more, however, and paying up my $58 is the first thing I happily do every year. I try to kick in $20 extra with every renewal, offering $10 for the field acquisition fund and $10 for the museum fund. The AMA offers us a simple, collective way for model aircraft enthusiasts all across America to work together and help each other out in a wide variety of different ways.

I've pissed a lot of money away since I first got involved in our sport about a half a decade ago, but I've never regretted one cent I've spent on my AMA membership or supporting AMA efforts. It costs $58 for 18 holes of golf and half of a cart rental for one afternoon; buying one year's worth of AMA membership is a much better investment.
Old 02-09-2009, 06:10 PM
  #47  
Stuntpilot51
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Big Ed,
Did you come to the Sky Knights auction in Lincoln? Lot's of planes went for absolutely rediculous prices. Including a couple of mine![X(]

Another benefit of being involved with a club.
Old 02-09-2009, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Well spoken Big Ed you put your words together very eloquently and you are abcolutely correct
Old 02-09-2009, 06:51 PM
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The effort to protect the rights of RC enthusiasts is an often overlooked but vitally important function of the AMA. I hear the phrase "the AMA has done nothing for me lately..." I believe that is a misguided attitude. I'm sure if an agency like the TSA sought to put restrictions on our hobby due to some percieved "threat," the AMA would be involved very quickly. Also if someone decides they would prefer not to be a member, that's their personal choice and I'm sure they have their reasons. We need to respect that...
Old 02-09-2009, 06:59 PM
  #50  
Delta3
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I started cleaning up my model room a couple of weeks ago and am still having trouble coming to grips with the dollar value of the flying gear I found. Between Spektrum receivers (4) a TT 91 FS an OS 120FS a couple of new TT 46 pro two strokes, goodness knows how many extension leads, Y leads, batteries, glues and so on and then looked around the walls at the planes and engines on shelves and all the gear in them. Then there is the hobby tools and two field boxes full of gear and the planes in boxes yet to be built. Don't want to add it all up but the total would be plenty

If the AMA only costs you $60 per year it has to be the bargain of the century for the peace of mind it brings with it. The friendships made at flying clubs are priceless and to exclaim that you cannot see any value or don't get anything in return is the biggest pile of nonsense I have heard in a long time. We all spend money on things and see nothing in return for it but with this hobby and the people involved you can make friends for life, once again absolutely priceless.

$60 per year for AMA membership or $130 per year that we pay in Oz is money well spent and quite frankly anyone who says it is not value for money should be making an appointment to see their shrink because they are a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic

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