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OUTLAW no more...

Old 02-08-2009, 06:36 PM
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sportrider_fz6
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Default OUTLAW no more...

well I guess I have no choice, I'm going to join the AMA and the local club feild. I've been flying at a school for about a year, and today the cops showed up and made us leave they said they got a complaint from some jerk who lives across the street. this isn't the first time he complained but last time I was flying an hobbyzone Supercub and he said the noise was disturbing him. I had the plane up in the air when the cops came and they asked if it was "on" and said I was fine. today I had a glow plane out and things didn't work out the same way. oh well, I guess it was time.
Old 02-08-2009, 06:57 PM
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Campgems
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Sportrider, Good on you.

You will enjoy belonging to the club. The guys will help you with any problems you have, or sometimes problems you don't know you have.

Outlaw flying is a real problem for me right now. A couple weeks back, we found that a small group of guys setup an outlaw field just across the highway from our field, about 2500 ft as the crow flys. The problem is three fold for our club, and the outlaw guys flying. First, where they were flying put their patteren right over the highway. Second was radio interference. We had had some strange behavior at the field the last couple weeks leading up to seeing they guys. We had two very experienced flyer loose their planes due to what was expected as radio interference during that time frame. Also a lot of other "hits" that didn't bring down the plane. Now, if we were taking hits, chances are very good that the outlaw flyers were also. Back to problem one, what would happen if the guy was on a pass over the highway and interference caused him to loose his plane and it dropped into trafic. Not a perty picture.
The last problem is that if something does happen, our club would likely get blamed for it, and most likely would we would loose our hard earned field.

So, the clubs interest is not only protecting themself and their planes, but gaining a new member is always good news. Welcome to the fold. Glad to have you aboard.

Don
Old 02-08-2009, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

well i fly at a outlaw field but we are way out in the middle of no where. There is about 10 ppl that fly at this place and we have never had trouble with anyone and i hope we have never made trouble for anyone else. and Campgems The guys that is flying across the road need to move on they are going to get someone hurt. either one of you guys are one of there guys is going to lose a plane and lets just hope it don't hit anyone. Have you all talked to the local police about this. i think if they know what is going on they would make the guys move on. Are you all might try talking to them about it. Good luck with it.
Now sportrider_fz6 I am sure you will enjoy the club as long as it is a good one. I was a member of a very good club for about 2 year it was just to far to drive every weekend and then the gas prices went up so much i just stop going.
Old 02-08-2009, 07:48 PM
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LuftwaffeOberst
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

I wish there were clubs that didn't force there members to have AMA. So if you people can fly Outlaw...[sm=thumbs_up.gif]. The economy stinks and everything costs a arm and leg these days. I think the AMA charges way too much. I can't even get a reduction in my dues even if I didn't want the [email protected] magazine.

One day I'll have my own land and will tell them to hit the road. Now AMA is trying to stick it to the Park Flyers. The problem I have right now is I have no where to fly other than club fields.[:@] This is JMHO but AMA has done nothing for me other than keep taking my money. Kind of reminds me of my government.
Old 02-08-2009, 08:50 PM
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dignlivn
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...



Lufftwaffe,

I disagree, JMO. I enjoy the magazine and the AMA, as they
help protect Our rights to fly. I hope you get your own land.

Bob
Old 02-08-2009, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Club membership brings with it some big benefits not the least of which is the insurance cover. In Oz we have a very good policy that covers you if things go astray. Much rather part with a couple of hundred dollars a year and be a member than risk losing a lifetimes worth of assets because of an accident. Everyone in litigation happy in this modern world and my personal opinion flying without insurance protection is just plain stupid
Old 02-08-2009, 09:44 PM
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richg99
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

I now own both glow and electric. I like both of them. I can see, however, the possibility of the glow guys ( me included) getting driven off of a field. The other fliers, using electric only, might not cause enough noise to be driven off of the same field.

Unfortunately, the law usually just stops EVERYBODY ...and the electric guys suffer, along with the glow guys , even though the electric guys didn't make the noise that was the original issue/problem. As cities get more crowded, it is just going to get worse. Wish I had a solution. Rich
Old 02-08-2009, 09:44 PM
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flaminheli
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Outlaw For Life!! The nearest club to me is about 35 minutes away. Why drive all the way to it when I can drive 2 minutes and fly. Let me ask this question. What does a club or the AMA have to offer me, besides insurance. Seeing how I would be giving them money every year, what will they be giving me? Are they going to send me a new plane or engine everytime I pay my dues?
Old 02-08-2009, 10:05 PM
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Delta3
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Well it is probably a breach of the law to fly in a public park, you could be fined and have your gear confiscated. If you are prepared to put everything you own at risk for the sake of a couple of hundred dollars a year in club membership and insurance protection that is up to you. The manufacturers also have a responsibilty when they put things like "Easy to Fly" on the boxes. They also need to add on "if you know what you are doing".

Maybe you have nothing to lose but for me if I don't have the insurance cover I don't fly. I don't want to put everything I have worked hard for over the years at risk for the sake of a couple of hundred dollars.

Just for the record people in Oz regularly drive 4 or 5 hours to attend race meetings in Pylon classes and it is not a big deal, I regularly fly at a field about 100 miles away and it is not much of an effort. Its people with attitudes like yours who eventually spoil it for eveyone because the authorities clamp down on all participants not just the rednecks who don't play by the rules and spoil things for all of us
Old 02-08-2009, 10:18 PM
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flaminheli
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So be it. Let the spoiling begin. I refuse to pay to fly. You drive over a hundred miles away? Man, gas must be cheap in the land down under. What are you referring to as not wanting to play by the rules? I have never seen it stated anywhere that you are required by law to join the AMA or a local club. The local cops stop all the time and watch me fly, so I don't think I have to worry about them. If I do have a problem with them then I will just have to drive about 5 more minutes to my brother's wide open land and fly. My son and I are the only ones in our town that fly rc planes so everyone around loves to watch them.

Outlaw For Life!!!
Old 02-08-2009, 10:23 PM
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jimmyjames213
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

outlaw/member
i fly fomies (electric) in a baseball field (thats right next to a football field) 100 yards out my back door
if the cops were to tell me to leave id be pissed but would understand (the baseball/football field has light's, so poles/wires are everywhere)
but ive flown more that 50 hours and no one has complained

as for glow i could possibly fly in the baseball field but it would be so stupid
glow you cant kill the engine as quickly as w/ a electric if you were going to hit someone/something chances are the engine will make it ugly, and the weight (and speed) of the plane, 5 pounds made of balsa vs 1.5 pounds made of foam, wont help much either,

electrics (smaller than 25 sized) make sense to outlaw. their is no reason to drive to the ama field and back (40 min their and back for me) for 10-15 min of flight and they will loose almost everytime they come in contact with something/someone
as for glow, unless you live on a farm, outlawing would be to risky to be worth it.
Old 02-08-2009, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

I personally find the AMA dues fairly reasonable. I get insurance and my club gets guidance from a national organization with a fairly large membership. If we're all on the same page when it comes issues of safety, noise, etc... , the better off we'll be in the long run.
Old 02-08-2009, 10:33 PM
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MikeL
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

It really doesn't matter what you do, so long as you do it responsibly. It's that last part that trips so many people up.

Oh... and I can't imagine flying without some sort of insurance, be it home owner's (most would need a rider for flying), a personal umbrella policy, or AMA's secondary insurance. The idea of flying without any of that gives me the willies. One stupid mistake on the part of anyone around you, and you could pretty easily be looking at a substantial civil judgment. Who wants to have their financial life ruined because some silly ideas about what is or is not expensive?
Old 02-08-2009, 10:51 PM
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ImHooked
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Correct me if I'm wrong but, it is my understanding that the AMA insurance doesn't kick in until after your own personal insurance has been depleted. Is this correct?

And yes, I am a card carrying member.
Old 02-08-2009, 10:54 PM
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jimmyjames213
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: Masonhornet

I personally find the AMA dues fairly reasonable. I get insurance and my club gets guidance from a national organization with a fairly large membership. If we're all on the same page when it comes issues of safety, noise, etc... , the better off we'll be in the long run.
no kidding what is it like 50 bucks a year for ama plus club fees (mine are 100)
if you hit someone with your plane your looking at 20000+ in medical fees, or hit a car (500+) and if you were to kill someone, you would be so screwed without insurance
Old 02-08-2009, 11:00 PM
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MikeL
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ORIGINAL: ImHooked

Correct me if I'm wrong but, it is my understanding that the AMA insurance doesn't kick in until after your own personal insurance has been depleted. Is this correct?
That's right. It's a secondary policy.
Old 02-08-2009, 11:04 PM
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flaminheli
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

I can understand the idea of the insurance. But the problem I have is telling me I have to fly at a certain place for it to be any good. When I load up my stuff to go fly, I want to fly as much as I feel like it. I don't want to have to wait until there are only so many planes in the air before I can put mine up. I like to land, refuel and hit the air again, not have to wait my turn. I have been doing it this way for over 20 years.
Old 02-08-2009, 11:09 PM
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MikeL
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Like I said, it's not what or where. It's doing it responsibly. That's the problem that many people have with those that fly outlaw. Flying outlaw isn't a reason to be irresponsible, nor does it alone make a person irresponsible. So long as you're looking out for your interests (in terms of safety and liability) and the interests of others (nearby clubs, respect for property rights) then there's no problem.
Old 02-08-2009, 11:16 PM
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LSF2298
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

The AMA doesn't tell you where to fly!
Old 02-08-2009, 11:17 PM
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flaminheli
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

I have to agree, MikeL. It is all about responsibility. I have been flying in this same location for over 20 years and always make sure I do not fly over the Highway, homes, people or cars. I figure I have about 6 acres of open field then there is no need to venture over the homes, highway etc that are behind me.
Old 02-08-2009, 11:19 PM
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flaminheli
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ORIGINAL: LSF2298

The AMA doesn't tell you where to fly!
So in order for the AMA insurance to cover something you do not have to be flying at an AMA sanctioned field.
Old 02-08-2009, 11:34 PM
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Delta3
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

In Oz personal or domestic insurance does not cover you for flying remote controlled aircraft. The local Councils have regulations that don't allow you to fly in public parks nor do they allow people to hit golf balls in public parks because it is deemed to be dangerous. The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) are the Government body that controls our hobby and they also have strict regulations. Are we over governed well yes we are but the penalties for breaking the rules can be harsh. We have strict rules about how far away from an airport you can fly and so on. These things are all designed to reduce liability and act in the interests of public safety. If you fly on private land you need the written permission of the owner to do so and then are covered by the insurance policy. In all aspects of life we have people telling us what to do and when to do it, we start work at a certain time, take lunch at a certain time and go home at the end of the working day also at a generally nominated time so in every aspect of life we have people or departments or Governments telling us what to do.

The reality is that accidents do happen and that Governments and their Departments put rules in place to protect all and sundry and particularly themselves so if we take this a step further and suddenly let anyone who wants to drive a car do so and remove all the rules of the road all we will end up with is chaos, a lot of accidents and in all probability a lot of people who meet unfortunate ends because of accidents. There are not as many people who fly Remote control planes / helis as there are people who drive cars but the process remains the same. If you want to save a few dollars and put your assets at risk thats fine it is up to you as an individual to take that risk but there are a lot of people in the "It won't happen to me" Club who have lost everything as the result of an unfortunate accident. Our insurance costs about $130 per year which equates to $2.50 per week. That is a small amount of money to protect yourself from the possibility of financial ruin in the event of an accident. The Oz equivalent of the AMA is the MAAA. Do I get anything for my $130 per annum except for a lot of rules and regulations. Well no I don't but I do know that if something unfortunate did happen I would at least have some protection. Without the insurance cover you are on your own buddy. You can't even buy a cup of coffee for $2.50 these days so from my point of view it is money well spent.

As for waiting in line to fly your plane at a club I thought the 2.4 technology removed that problem. There is no one out there that dislikes paying insurance premiums than me but I would not be prepared to put everything I have at risk for the sake of $2.50 per week. I have seen too many people out there who think "It won't happen to me" sent to the wall because of an unfortunate accident and no insurance. I don't want to be one of them
Old 02-08-2009, 11:38 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

ORIGINAL: flaminheli
So in order for the AMA insurance to cover something you do not have to be flying at an AMA sanctioned field.
Correct. You only have to abide by the safety code. It loosely describes a safe flying area but it does not say you have to fly at a specific location.
Old 02-08-2009, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...

Well I joined, it cost $58.00 for the year. yes I could of spent that money on another engine, but if I can't fly at the feild whats the point. besides the way I see it I waste more money then that a month on stupid stuff. the club I'm looking at will be $110 for the first year and $60 a year after that. if they are open for new members the other local clubs are around $200 for the first year. kinda a bummer but at least I won't have to worry about getting run off when I want to fly. and I will have a place to fly for those days off work during the week.

as far as the AMA insurance the open membership covers parkflyers also but, no glow, has to be under 2 lbs and can't exceed 60 MPH
Old 02-08-2009, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: OUTLAW no more...


ORIGINAL: flaminheli


ORIGINAL: LSF2298

The AMA doesn't tell you where to fly!
So in order for the AMA insurance to cover something you do not have to be flying at an AMA sanctioned field.
I "think" you'll still be covered... The safety code only refers to a "flying site" which is not really defined in the document. But really guys, an AMA membership is cheap. Five dollars a month to help protect you and your fellow hobbyists is a really good deal.

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