CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Aw come on, Gordon.. everyone should know their limitations..

tIANci

His limitation is The Sky's The Limit! Hahahahaa ...

Korps

OR..

If it's in one piece you are not flying hard enough :P therefor not your limit

tIANci

Korps ... my Sebart Angel was smashed over the weekend. One guy flies his 100cc Xtreme Composite Edge really hard, so I decided to emulate him ... positive snaps for me were ok but a negative one with full throws and throttle ensured that the battery was nicely ejected! Looks like I now know my limits!!!

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

What's the saying?

If you're not flying on the edge, you're taking up too much air!

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Ok, sure...that was originally a friendly shot at CGR, no question...I think there's a valid point there though.

Perhaps we "know our limits"...but aren't we really saying that we've found the point beyond which we won't progress?

Seriously, let's think about this. If we all knew our "limits", and stuck to them...none of us would be off a buddy box.

We progress in this hobby...as in anything else in life...by deliberately pushing ourselves beyond what we're comfortable doing...and finding out that maybe that wasn't a "limit" after all.

In the sense we're talking here, I don't accept "limits" on anything I do. Not at work, not in my children, and not at a flying field. Are there things I won't do? Sure. Are there things I'm not yet able to do? Absolutely. But those aren't limits...they're just places I haven't gone yet.

Will I EVER be able to do some of those things? Guess we'll just have to find out.

==========

That whole issue is, I think, applicable here. What's the suggested and maximum wind speed for beginners? Uh...whatever he can fly in, and a bit more? Heck, I dunno. But go back and visit something I said in my original post in this thread.

I never once mentioned the student's "limits" or "limitations". I talked about what the student was or wasn't ready for.

I think that's important. It's about understanding that what you feel comfortable doing...what you have fun doing...the sort of conditions/situations you enjoy flying in...those are all just fine. Whatever floats your boat works for me, so long as you're having a good time. But they ain't "limits"...they're where you've DECIDED to stop pushing yourself any more.

That's why there's no answer from me in the poll. That new pilot will stop "pushing the limits" whenever he/she is ready to...until then, the sky really IS the limit.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

This is true. However... (always one of those, right?) there are times that we all just want to go out and bore holes in the sky with no challenges, nothing new, just good old relaxing flying. On those days, if wind is a challenge, then you have to decide if you want to fly or not.

I've headed out to the field when conditions looked pretty good at home, but once I got there, well, a cross runway gusting 20 or so is there and I just don't want to fly in that stuff that day.

We've all been there... and done that... and knowing those limitations is a good thing.

However (here we go again) we really do need to follow Gordon's suggestions here and push that limit when we can, and when we are prepared to do just that.

I was out there one day with the intents of putting a new flyer on the buddy box. I put her plane up... it took some effort to get it airborne.. under powered trainer (inadequate for winds that day, especially for someone new on a buddy box) so I flew it around, noted that it was somewhat incompatible for training, and landed it. And the landing was a bit sloppy due to the wind.

CGr

tIANci

Okay back to being a little more serious. Its most true that each pilot needs to know their limitations, especially beginners. I seen too many instances of beginners who feel they can easily solo after a few lessons. Seen them crash when they do it as they go and fly without their tutor. It could have be fatal to someone ... But as someone who is training a beginner we should ensure that we make them understand their limitations and also to push them to overcome the said limitations too as they get more flying time and build their confidence.

hugger-4641

My Feedback: (6)

Well said Gordon
I have yet to find the limits of my abilities in anything. However, I have on many occasion found the limits of my plane's ability to correct my mistakes!

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

never fly in winds over 74 mph !

hogflyer

For the first few flights I try to limit the student to about 12 mph to keep the plane a bit more steady, but after they have an idea what is going on then I'll let them fly in 15 - 17 mph. Depending on the student and weather I have flow them up to 25 mph. In Kansas (Texas, Oklahoma & Nebraska too) you have to learn to fly in 20 - 25 mph winds and consider 15 - 17 mph winds normal if you want to fly more than 2 or 3 times a year.

It really depends on the area you live in, the attitude of the student, confidence the instructor has and the plane used. I know guys in other parts of the country who pack it in at 10 mph which they consider very windy.

Hogflyer

JOHNS3D

My Feedback: (5)

wind is not a difficult factor..... the problem should be if is crossed or not and also what airplane do you have.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

CGR,

I absolutely agree...there is really no fun in crashing several airplanes JUST to "prove" you can accomplish a certain maneuver, or fly in a certain amount of wind. This hobby IS supposed to be fun, and there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with saying "Ya know...I can't do X, or don't enjoy Y enough to make it worth the effort."

Let's face it...just because I CAN fly in 110* weather, doesn't mean I WANT to. In that sense, 100 or so is about my "limit".

I just meant to suggest that I try to remind myself not to call such things "limits" because...silly as this sounds...it's limiting. I prefer to think of them as "choices"....which, i suppose, is really only so much psychobabble to try to convince myself to try that next maneuver. *heh*

============

Another way of looking at all this, I suppose, is the way my full scale CFI treated me.

Calm or light winds? let's go work on stalls, or steep turns, or whatever.

What? High winds? NOW we'll go work on crosswind landings and ground reference maneuvers! (I still hate you, Chris )

I can't count how many "Eggs around a point" I flew before I mastered actually flying a CIRCULAR ground track in 25kt winds. BUT...I'll tell ya this...when it came time to do it for real, and the winds were 7kts? Pbthtbthtptbhtpth....easiest thing in the world. Correcting for a 7kt wind was something I could do in my sleep.

I've used the same idea with RC students....heck, I've got some that I taught to land before they could fly a simple circuit around the field. I'd line em up, flip the switch, and talk them down.

Why? Simple. they were the sort of people who didn't get discouraged by not picking up a VERY difficult task immediately. They'd just work on it flight after flight after flight, until they finally got it...only to learn, on the next flight, that somewhere in all that they'd picked up darn near every other skill they needed.

Same thing with wind. For some folks, the 'right" answer to this whole issue is that there IS no "maximum" wind speed for a beginner (Though i suppose PilotFighter's 74mph is, indeed, probably a bit much *heh*). For these folks, the MORE wind the better...learn to land in a 20 kt wind, and a 5 kt wind is nothing.

On the flip side, there's absolutely folks who prefer to "build up" to something. Nothing wrong with that, and it's a fine way to teach AND learn. So be it...in that case, even 5kt of wind might be too much at first.

I think this whole thing still comes back to one basic principle, however...and there's only so many ways we can all say it....

Fly what you want, when you want, in conditions you enjoy, and have fun doing it.

redxfred

My Feedback: (3)

The only operational inflight limit I can think of is the crosswind landing limit. All airplanes reach a point where it is no longer possible to align the flight path with the runway heading while touching down in a reasonable amount of crab (Aircraft heading not aligned with the runway). Of course, if your skilled enough, you could touchdown in the middle of the runway with 50 knots of crosswind... However, things are going to get very sporty when the wheels gain traction while aimed 40 degrees left or right.

Moderately high winds can be a real flying treat if the crosswind is not significant. Everyone loves to see an airplane fly backwards over the runway in a high headwind. Landings in a strong headwind can be greatly simplified by carrying extra speed and power right up to the touchdown point.

Your overall wind limit is the taxi limit. This occurs when the air vehicle assumes the flight characteristics of a trash can lid and blows away. A general ground taxiing rule is to dive the elevator and roll ailerons away from a tailwind... roll ailerons into a quartering headwind with neutral elevator.

Hope this helps.

Missileman

It was a particularly windy spring when I learned to fly.
My instructor simply stated that it was better that way because if I didn't learn to fly in the wind I wouldn't fly very often.
The day I soloed the club regulars where just leaving the field saying it was too windy for them to fly. I was to meet my instructor there for a regular training session and figured when he saw how windy it was he would cancel. Well he showed up and said "are you ready? by the way I didn't bring the buddy box today" talk about shaky knees!!! But I did it and am glad it turned out the way it did.

Apache-Sven

My Feedback: (1)

Agreed, I flew my Blade 400 3D in 25 MPH winds. I wanted to see if I could handle her in those winds. I was able too, but as it was my first time flying such a small heli I had to be prepared to crash her good. I didn't have fun flying in such high wind speeds, it was challenging, and I wouldn't do it again as I want to have fun a be 100% sure I can fly her another day without having to fix her. But for beginners on the air side I would suggest the lowest wind speed possible for the area as they are trying to get used to their controls. There is a wind speed though for every plane, where she just won't fly properly anymore. Each planes motor has it's torque limits where it can't pull the plane into the wind anymore, and unless you fly sail planes or drive sail boats into the wind and know how to use the wind properly, most everyone has a "limit"
All in all, I would suggest a wind speed of no greater than 12 MPH to fly in as a beginner. After the trainee has gotten used to the controls of the plane the student can then determine weather or not to fly in higher winds.


I also agree with GBOULTON on what he said here....

"..... they were the sort of people who didn't get discouraged by not picking up a VERY difficult task immediately. They'd just work on it flight after flight after flight, until they finally got it...only to learn, on the next flight, that somewhere in all that they'd picked up darn near every other skill they needed. "

Charlie P.

As stated above: a question with so many variables.

What size model? In general the heavier models are less wind sensitive. By the time the studemt gets to symmetrical wing airfoils the wind is much less important.

It's good to have some, and take-offs and landings are easier in 10 mph winds than dead calm. Worst case would be the sheltered student who has not done a downwind turn or attempts a downwind loop with 15 mph wind until alone.

Assuming it's a high [flat] wing trainer it should handle 15 mph very nicely. But, if the student is paralyzed with fear I wouldn't insist they fly. Usually the model is less effected by wind than the student.

Mr67Stang

I assume you are talking about flying a trainer in these winds. Even some different trainers fly better than others in the wind. Weight, size and wing design (flat bottom/semi semetric) all play into this. I voted for your highest wind speed. Why? Well I think a begginer (with instructor) should always be flying at the edge of his comfort zone after they learn basic flight. I fly with a bunch of guys that wont fly at all if the wind starts picking up. It makes it hard to progress if you wait for perfect conditions before you even take your plane out of the truck.

Apache-Sven

My Feedback: (1)

It makes it even harder to progress when the pilot damages the plane and his confidence, No??

Mr67Stang

Read the whole post. Particularly the "(with instructor)" part

fly boy2

I dont fly when the guys who have been flying longer than I've been alive, says its too windy for them. I found out that my spad trainer hates the wind, but my tiger 2, doesnt even know its there. I dont mind to fly in the wind, but some days, I just want to fly low and slow and not have to worry about it. I flown a foamie in 25 mph winds, that was scary and challenging at the same time( I could almost fly backward). It all depends on the plane, wind, person, and what you had to eat( I just wanted to throw that in for no reason), etc.

davo580

i teach my students to fly in the windy conditions it makes them work abit harder and makes them control their planes and not the plane control them

Apache-Sven

My Feedback: (1)

Opps, My bad. Sorry Mr67Stang.