What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Hey everyone...first timer here! (posting & piloting)

Im itching to pull the trigger on joining you all at the field. For years I have wanted to get into this hobby. Well, life has slowed down enough to do so finally. A few years ago, I almost got into it. Had everything picked out, but had to put it on hold when I got married, house, etc.

I was disapointed to recently hear of the issues that Sig is having on its ARF lines with theire suppliers over in China. I had my heart set on a Kadet LT-40! Kicking myself I didnt at least buy the plane when I was going to get into it before. Well, the folks at Sig lead me to believe there is no light at the end of the tunnel any time soon on this one! So Im now searching for my number two option.

Trying to decide between four: 1) Tower Hobbies - Tower Tranier 40, 2) Hobbico - Avistar 40, 3) Hobbico - Superstar 40, 4) Hangar-9 Alpha 40

Whatever I choose will be an ARF. Im going to my neareast clubs meeting for the first time at the end of the month to get their opinion on what they like to train on so they're dealing with familiar equipment. I hear that different clubs swear by different equipment for various reasons. I value independent opinions and would be intereseted in hearing yours! What are your thoughts? Am I going down the right road with one of these planes? Do you like one over another?

Thanks!

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

All are great choices. Look at the beginning of the Beginners Forum for a list created by RCKen for other choices. All work just fine. Pick one, put it together, and get yer butt out there!!! :D

For radio's, I know you didn't ask, but let me add this: your instructor might give you a great starting point. Go with what you like. You will get many recommendations from those that like this brand or that brand. When I started out, my instructor had Airtronics, so guess what? I chose Airtronics. If your instructor has Spektrum.. or Futaba, you will probably be swayed in that direction. Any choice is a good one.. you just can't go wrong. They are all just fine.

Welcome to the hobby!!

CGr.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Welcome to this hobby. It is a hobby that you can have a lot of fun with, meet a lot of great guys that are more than willing to help you on any decisions you want to make. I am also Sorry Sig lost the trade deal, maybe they will regain it, who know's? They made some of the best trainers out there.
A friend of mine bought the Avistar and it flew great. Most any high wing trainer will get you going but ask the guys at your field or club what they recommend. My personal preferenceare Nitro powered planes, but there many decent electric's out there too. It just comes down on what type of plane you want to get started with. Good luck on what ever you choose and fly Safe.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

From personal experience with the Avistar, I like it because it has a semi-symmetrical wing. Most trainers have a flat bottom wing. The semi-sym wing will allow you to perform aerobatic maneuvers a bit better than the flat bottom. Before I get blasted - I have an LT-40 (kit) - and with enough power / correct prop I can do many different aerobatic maneuvers (loops with a snap roll at the top are kinda fun). The big BUT is that the Avistar will allow you to do them "better", more easily.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Bassick, Those are good choices. Try to find someone to help you out, and you might want to buy a transmitter that can couple up with theirs with a buddy cable.

And welcome to the hobby. I've had a lot of interests over the years but the RC Flying (and for me building) hobby has given me more satisfaction per minute and dollar spent than sailboats, full scale airplanes, and a host of other more expensive pursuits. You will have a lot of fun!

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

You are probably lucky. The Lt-40 is OK for the Old-Slow folks (I'm one) beginners. If you're reasonably active, you will tire of it VERY quickly. Besides it is not of significant structure to preclude significant damage when you have an un-planned landing/arrival.

If you're fairly adaptable the Avistar is an excellent airplane. It is not nearly as forgiving as the Hobbico Superstar 40 or the Tower Trainer 40. I don't hink anything can beat those last two for learning to fly. Stay away from the PT Trainer. It has far too much dihedral and just isn't a very smooth machine. It will do OK for 3-channel but. IMO. not worth the effort.
Don't go overboard with an engine selection. You don't need more than a good 40-46, preferably a moderate .40 to have a great trainer. The Thunder Tiger .40 is now my choice of easy-out-of-the-box engines. The Super Tigre is my choice for over-all long service, however if you don't know how to build a restrictor for the throttle, you just might have fits with that one. The carb is bored for the .51 and too big for the .40. The .45 does well, but that is an ABC engine and sometimes newbies try to use ringed procedure for break-in. Not really good.

Just think, walk before running. If you select the Avistar, you will have a great airplane for club fun-flys, those times when you just like to bore holes in the sky and/or just shoot landings. Don't get too anxious to solo it, but it is a great little sport machine.
I keep an LT-40 mostly for TAG events and initial training. I also have a Tower Trainer 40 for same but mostly for the training when the student needs some special help. Both are on 72MHz and both have very old many-hour Super Tigre .40s.

Welcome to the Sport! Train seriously and learn the basics. Then you can jump into 3D. :D

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Thanks all...very strong input!

I guess my head was leaning more towards the Avistar. I was a little concerned of it not being the best for a true beginener however, due to it not being a a flat bottom wing design, and that its described as being more areobatic than your average trainers. I have logged many hours on the Realflight Sim trainer over the past few years with all sorts of planes, so I have some scense of what flying one for real might be like.

It sounds like a couple of you think the Avistar would still be an ok plane to start out on, and have the ability to grow with it into more techinical flying. Thats all Im looking for. Baby steps without getting board of a simple plane too quickly. I have full intentions of learning this the right way with instructor, buddy box, and plenty of time on the flight line.

You've confirmed a bit what I have been thinking, and my next approach will be to see what the club guys think when I meet them next meeting. I am a little apprehensive to ask someone to instruct me though, as I am the type that does not want to put people out, but it looks like most clubs have this type of program so maybe its just an everyday thing? Do you tip, or do something nice like a gift card to dinner for your instructor? Is that a common practice?

Thanks Guys, look forward to sharing my experiances with you, and anyone else that has an opinion please share!
MB

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Usually, instruction is free. You can, however- show up on time, be prepared by having everything charged up, fuel, lines, some spare props, an open mind to listen with, and patience for yourself while you learn. Just show the person who is trying to instruct as much attention and respect as you would like if you were trying to show someone what you know.

And you will have fun.

don't forget the pillow to put between your knees [8D]

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Something to think about also is the instructor. Try to meet with all the available instructors if there is more then one. Hopefully they have a couple designated instructors. One problem I have seen is that many "instructors" are just nice guys that learned how to fly model A/C without learning what really makes them work beyond what they see or can remember from what they heard. Experience doesn't make a good instructor, knowledge, patience and the ability to tailor the teaching to match your way of learning does. There are many great instructors that are just average pilots, but a great pilot does not always make a great instructor. Pick an instructor that is a good fit, that is, is available when you are, has a personality that you can get along with, and has successfully instructed before. Hopefully he will have a plan for your learning beyond just show up and fly. If he (sorry I should add or she) has lesson plans then prepare for the next lesson by reading up on it before hand. There are some great books out there and the internet has a ton of info if you just look for it. Stick to the academic info and not the forums to start with. Lastly if you don't seem to be progressing there could be two problems. 1. you may have reached a learning plateau ,or 2. you may need to fly with another instructor. Sometimes it is good to have another perspective or you may just not be meshing well with the first instructor. This doesn't always mean that they are a bad instructor or that you are a bad student, just that you are not a good fit. Some of the best and worst relationships in aviation are with instructors. The best part about model instructors is that as a rule there is no real compensation for teaching beyond the privilege of introducing someone to this great hobby and getting to pass on your knowledge and experience. This means that the bad relationships are few and far between. Go out have fun and learn as much as you can both at the field and at home it will make it all worthwhile.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

All of airframes on your shopping list are terrific. I've instructed students with all of them. Don't get too hung up about the Avistar being sportier than the rest of these trainers, they actually fly similarly to one another.

What makes the Avistar sportier is the shorter wingspan (59" versus 63" on the other three), this results in a bit of a faster roll rate, but it's not a huge difference. As for the shape of the wing, well, just consider "semi-symetrical" to be a marketing term for "almost flat-bottomed." The Avistar is a terrific primary trainer when you're working with an experienced instructor, and the other three airframes are all capable of satisfying sport flying after you've soloed.

I'm surprised that no one has suggested looking more closely at a .60-size trainer. The Tower Trainer .60 ARF and the Hobbico Hobbystar .60 ARF are also excellent choices for a primary trainer, and the larger planes and engines aren't really any more expensive than their .40-size counterparts. These larger airframes (70" to 72" wingspan) are easier to see when they're high up in the air, and they're generally more stable in windy conditions.

Don't rule out one of these larger airframes without some serious consideration. There is really no disadvantage to flying a larger airframe so long as you can fit it in your car.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Hi!
All the available high winged ARF planes are good!
Being an instructor for 35 years I can recommend the Kyosho "Calmato" as one of the best.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

+1

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

bigdemustafa, you are always right on and I seldom find anything to disagree with you about. However at the prices of glow fuel these days, and outher associated sundries, I don't really wish to advise a newbie about anything larger than a standard .40-.46. In reality a standard .40, swinging a 11-4 sport prop, will provide a newbie with all the airplane he/she needs to train with. Actually a good .29-.35 will do well in those advertised airplanes.

While I try to stay away from any talk about some one's financial portion of aeromodeling, in some cases I do so. This past couple years I have observed several RC wanna-bees give up because of all the associated costs with starting up, and the strain on a family.

So you are very correct about "Big is Better" ( ;) ) but IMO there are some times that a new aeromodeler needs to hear the practical side. Just think how a new flier feels when getting on the field with a new ARF Trainer and half the guys are 3Ding around with 100"+ gas burners. So IMO, I will help him start with a practical start-up, smaller than the .50 up or even the really strong .45+ and let him gain some experience, then go join the "big boys". :)

Just my thoughts! [sm=idea.gif]

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

I agree with Hoss and Tim that bigger planes are easier to learn on, and also agree that smaller engines will allow things to happen a bit slower. I have a Tower Hobbies Trainer 40 with an OS Max .25 for power and it does just fine with the original wing and with a new 82 inch wing I built for it to get back into the hobby after a ten year break. Check out this YouTube video I've put on RC Universe before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EkaU9emYWU

The big wing makes it a great trainer as students can see what the plane is doing so easily.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

I'm a big fan of the HobbiStar 60 as a first plane. I ordered one as my first plane, but got impatient, and bought a pair of used SuperStar 40's a day later. I flew one of the flat bottom 40 a few times (7-8) and felt I was ready to try the HobbiStar 60. "WOW..... this is much easier to fly!", is what I thought after one minute of flight. It rolls out faster, climbs out better (more stable), and flew inverted better. (Yes, I flew a couple of inverted passes with the 40 the 2nd day of learning). I vote for the HobbiStar 60 RTF kit from Tower. GREAT first plane!

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXGHD4**&P=ML

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDOUcKkc89Q[/youtube]

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

I would go with the Avistar. I first started out with the Tower 40 and had lots of good luck with the plane, but now I fly the Avistar. I recommend the Avistar because you will not get bored with it as easily as you will the Tower 40. I mostly fly low wing planes now (Escapade, Sig Four Star), but I still like to take my Avistar out on a weekly basis because for a trainer, it is very aerobatic. I love to fly inverted, and the Avistar will fly inverted a lot easier than the Tower 40.


Bjfrankl

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Bjfrankl,

I followed other people's avice just like yours and ordered an Avistar. Yesterday, I did the hinges and in the concentration of trying to glue them properly, I did not realize that I used the right aileron on the left wing. The ailerons are symetrical so it does not make any difference, but the tip of the ailerons do not match the wing tip cut. Could that cause problems on flight? I don't care about the look much, but if I have to cut the tip f the ailerons, I will do it. What do you think?

Thanks,

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Can't answer your question Harryangus , but I did end up getting the Avistar. I have had it for a month now and have not yet put it together. I have cleaned up the monokote however by shrinking it up more and that has come out nice. Will probably get around to actually assembling in February. Hang in there...someone will guide you on what to do about your delima.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

FLAPHappy.............what is in the statement "I am sorry Sig lost the trade deal"???? I am in the dark about what you might be eluding to........please elaborate.....if not here in the forum, then PM me.

Thanks,
Andy

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Andy,
I have seen two versions of the "SIG trade deal" rumor on RCU and other forums.

1. SIG ordered a bunch of ARFs and did not have cash on hand to pay when they were ready. So, the ARF factory sold them to Nitroplanes.
2. SIG ordered a bunch of ARFs and rejected the shipment due to quality issues. So, the ARF factory sold them to Nitroplanes.

Either way, there were planes that look identical to the LT-40 and other SIG moidels on the nitroplanes site for a while and people who bought them indicated they received boxes with the SIG logo marked out.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Buy a flight simulator. put in 40 hrs.  and fly anything . Forget the trainer.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

".... and FLY anything..." Sorry to disagree with you so very much. There is a very great difference in the term "FLY" and as I term it "drive". Call it "drive' and I can agree, but "fly" is reserved for something more.

Simulators PROGRAM a pilot-to-be. In my learned experience of 41 years professional aviation, military and airline, including 5 years (2 tours) as an instructor in T-33 and then T-38 aircraft, I firmly believe that a simulator-only trained person is only an airplane-driver. Only after a time period of really learning the real life experiences of actual flight can one proudly call him/herself PILOT. In addition I have flown models, CL, FF, and RC for some 65 years, including instructing RC since 1971.

Today at almost any RC Field it only takes a few minutes to sit and observe the differences between RC Pilots and RC airplane-drivers. It's displayed in the ATTITUDE much more than ALTITUDE. The airplane-driver generally has none to very little flight-line discipline, seldom if ever adjusts his flight profile to accommodate other fliers, and usually thinks only of himself. His skills can be excellent in positioning HIS aircraft, but his "fly anything" personality definitely places him in the ranks of airplane drivers.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Look if O P has been part of this site since 2005, He knows what he needs.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

I wish and hope all who drive our wonderful little planes will see and "listen" to what you said about true Pilots and the Drivers out there who are only aware of themselves on the field and never adjust to others or conditions. Thanks for all your years flying us safely to our destinations.

Just sign me a 4 million mile flier.

RE: What Are Your Thoughts?
 

Harryangus. Go ahead and cut it. You will never know the difference with a trainer.