Over my head and need help!!
 

I screwed up .............. See below!

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

I guess you are, seeing how there was no post.:D:D:D:D:D:D

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

And I thought I had problems

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

I have a Great Planes Piper Cub 40 about 90% complete and have developed cold feet. (It is ready to do final sanding and covering),  I think I bite off more than I can fly currently. I built combat control line planes in the early 60's so building is no problem. I just have too many hours in this good looking plane to crash it on the first flight. I think maybe I should start over and build a trainer..............

I am looking at the GP PT-20 or the Sig Senorita or Sig Kadet Mark II. I don't mind how long it takes to build.........I have more time than anything else. I am 70 yrs old and just forced into retirement. Can you guys point me in the right direction with one of these or other kits to help me get started? I intend to finish the Cub and hang it from the ceiling until I can learn a lot more about being a pilot. Maybe you guys have better ideas...

Thanks in advance!

Jim

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Sorry guys! Looks like I need help with this computer too!

Jim

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

No problem Jim.

Any of those are good choices but the Seniorita is what's known as a "Builder's Kit" - Lot's of sticks to cut-to-size and glue together.

Another option is to start practicing on a simulator.

And by ALL means, find a club in your area - with a proper instructor and buddy box, crashes are almost a thing of the past! (At least most of those first-timer crashes)

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Jim congratulations you just a very wise decision. Indeed finish and hang the cub for now and build a real trainer.

The Seniorita is a superb trainer about the same physical size as most contemperary 40 sized trainers but lighter and only needs a good .25. Yes it is a stick build but a very easy one just like the Senior Kaydet just smaller.

As mentioned already a simulator is a great idea but most important is finding that mentor, instructor if you will when you get to the flying part. That person is part and parcil to your ultimate success.

Enjoy

John

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Jim

I used to build, fly, crash. In the begining.Seven planes later. Then Flight Simulators came out. I suggest you get one and practice. They are good. I got Real Flight and it's good and fun also. The Cub is an easy plane to fly. I have built three of them, a small one, a quarter scale and a third scale. After some paractice on the simulator. I built a SIG Astro Hog and I have been flying it ever since the begining, going on it 30th year! A really great, easy, fun flying plane.
Good luck.

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Here's a simple thought: Building is different than flying; try not to confuse the two. In building, you may be motivated to do a good job, make it look good, etc. The product whether it is an R/C airplane, restored car, whatever ends up a lot of times "too good to use". It actually isn't too good to use, it is just you have a lot of "emotional investment" in it. Simple rules for person learning to fly R/C:
1) Focus on those things you don't know how to do and want to learn to do. You said you used to build; so you know how to do that, you don't need to focus on that
2) Do one thing at a time, master it, go to next. For example: Learn how to take off; learn to land; learn to make turns; spend some time on each of those until you've increased your skill (not necessarily until you're perfect) then spend some time on another skill

If you just like building; build something but learn to fly on a disposable RTF. When it crashes you won't have crushed your cherished plane.

If a person is really wanting to learn to fly, they must accept crashes as part of the learning experience. There is a paradox in RC learning: The more crashes you avoid through skill, the better. The more crashes you avoid through fear of flying, the worse

Hope that helps if it doesn't no problem with ignoring it

Regards

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

The beauty of this hobby is that you can do it whichever way you want. I knew a guy in my club who trained on a Cub. He didn't have any trouble flying it but I'd say he was set back 3-4 months because of ground handling and the wrecks he had because of it. Since you're asking for advice, I'd scan the classifieds for someone selling a trainer plane. You're probably going to beat it up learning on it, so why put the time into building a pristine one when you can probably pick a good used one up for $50-$75? Get the trainer into the air, then when you feel confident with it get your instructor to show you how to handle your Cub.

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Sometimes you can be money ahead, with less pain by just spending a few hundred on a good sim program, or even a trainer type plane to get the "flying chops" up and running. Its good that your apprehensive, that will help to keep your planes in one piece.

Another great piece of advice someones' already pointed out is a good instructor/mentor... all the above mentioned things combined is good insurance to success in this hobby. :)

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

I would check with an instructor at your local club. You might be able to train on a Cub; it is a pretty gentle plane.

I would think of an ARF for training. If you can find one, the Butterfly Arising Star is a very quick build and flies very well. It is also inexpensive.

There are probably still Seniorita ARFs on EBay at a very good price.

Tom

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Did you fly them too? Fast combat on 60 foot lines with hot .35 engines? If so you are going to be ahead in this new quest, since the concept of flairing for landing you already know. The rest is learning the left/right thing and using a touch of elevator in turns to hold the nose up.

Cubs fly well, but some find them difficult to take-off and land due to poor technique. If you have ever flown in a real Cub, then you might remember the pilot lifting the tail off first and then running down the runway on the mains until flying speed was reached. Maybe dancing a bit on the rudder, and even lifting off of one wheel first and taking off with a slight bank of the wing because of a slight cross wind. Well the same happens with Cub models, but at a slightly quicker pace. It's all good, and great fun to do.

I'd build a Sig plane or two. Doesn't really matter which one, though aileron proficiency will be needed before you fly your Cub.

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Take a look at the flight syms. thats a great way to get started. Crash all you want and all you have to do is hit the space bar to buy a new plane. Dennis

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

A lot of clubs have instructors and they or the club have trainers so you may not have to buy anything other then your own fuel. As an instructor I also lend new students my Sim and show them different planes I want them to fly on it. No reason to be spending money on items you may be loaned.
Finish the Cub and hang it on the wall until you are ready for it.

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Jim-
First of all, welcome back into the hobby. And I congratulate you on deciding to take the building route, and also for putting the Cub away for a while. It's a great plane but far from being the best trainer.

You are looking for a trainer kit. Sounds like your familiar with Tower, which is good at this point in your 'career'. I'm going to make some suggestions but, like everyone else, I have my own preferences (biases) so get a few other opinions before you take the plunge. The suggestions you've gotten on finding a club (where you'll get still more advice) and investing in a simulator are good ones. Especially the club. Different clubs have different preferences, especially in RADIOS and you will probably want to be compatible with what they use so you can hook up with an instructor on a buddy box. The major radio manufacturers are all good (Futaba, JR, Spektrum, Hitec etc.) Remember, when it comes to radios and engines, you get what you pay for and, 95% of the time, they are reusable. Airframes on the other hand wear out. So don't get too emotionally attached to your first trainer but you can probably use the electronics and engine in your next plane.

OK, a trainer to build. Normally I'd suggest the Sig LT-40 kit. It's big enough to see in the air, is a straightforward build and comes with good instructions. But Sig kits are hard to find right now for a number of reasons. Look the plane up on the Sig website to get the details and see if it's in stock. If it is, I'd definitely go with it. If not, I'd go with either the PT-40 by Great Planes or the Goldberg Eagle II trainer. Both are available through Tower. Notice that all 3 that I've recommended are .40 size. Don't go smaller (like the PT 20). Too small to see in my opinion. You'll find a 40 or even 60 size trainer flys better. Price of course goes up with size.

Here's something for you to consider. Both the LT 40 and PT 40 comes as kits and ARF's of good quality. You live in Albuquerque so I surmise you can fly year round. You might consider getting both an ARF and kit of the same plane. No, I'm not a model airplane salesman! It's just that you could theoretically assemble the ARF and get out to the field fairly quickly while you take your time building your masterpiece. That would give you time to get over the rough times on the first few flites and then bringing out the kit when you're more confident. You can of course transfer the electronics and engine from the ARF to the kit when you're ready. I used this plan when I was learning and have done so several more times with students, the last of whom was 79 years old. Turns out he was too good a student and wound up with BOTH planes still flying when he moved up to a low wing taildragger!

Whatever you decide, keep in touch on the Forum. There are lots of knowledgeable folks on here who are always willing to help. And best of luck. Most of all, enjoy retirement.

Augie

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

I want to thank all of you for what I consider good advice. I think I have made a decision or I had already made a decision............I really don't know since you guys have suggested more or less what I had thought would be a good route. I am not the social type, so the club route would probably be the best route for most people, but not me. I will consider it again after I am a little more proficient as a pilot.

I have already placed an order for the trainer, but most important (at least I think) I have also ordered the Real Flight Simulator. By the time I get the Cub finished and the new trainer built, I should have some time in on the simulator. At least that is the way I am approaching this. Building the models are more important to me than the actual flight. I am doing this hobby to occupy my time. I have been a workaholic for the past 30 to 50 years since college and now find myself going nuts without anything to do.

To the gentleman in Kansas..........I did fly the combat machines and the hot fox .35's  were the engine of the day. I would crash three or four planes on the weekend and rebuild them through out the week along with my school work. I would rebuilt at  least until they had crashed so many times they could not be rebuilt. I usually had at least one new one under construction most of the times.  I even got pretty good at it before college took over.

Thanks again to all of you! I will keep you posted.

Jim

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

OK, don't keep us in suspense. What trainer did you wind up with???? :)

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

You might be making a mistake by thinking you are not the social type. I have been associated with a handful of RC "clubs" throughout the years and have found, without exception, that they are the most sharing and least demanding groups of folks I have ever been around. All you have to do is show up and they will do the rest to make you feel comfortable. The knowledge you will gain is priceless and they are more than willing to share hardware as well. Our group here is small, about 20 guys, but there is not one that I am not happy to see when he drives on to the flying field. Not one. And I am not really the social type either.

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

HI

START WITH A TRAINNER ( PLANE) AND FIND YOURSELF A GOOD RC INSTRUCTOR AT A CLUB FLYING FIELD NEAR YOU THE REST WILL DEVELOPE NATURALLYYOU WILL FLY THE CUB WHEN YOU DEVELOPE YOUR SKILLS I HAD A CAHOS HANGING ON THE WALL FOR A LONG WHILE UNTIL I FELT I COULD HANDLE A PLANE LIKE THAT . A 40 OR 60 SIZE STICK IS A GOOD SECOND PLANE THE TRAINNER WILL COME IN HANDY WHEN YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FLYING FOR A LITTLE WHILE AND WANT TO RESHARPEN YOU SKILLS BOTH THE TRAINNER AND A STIK ARE VERY FORGIVING AIRPLANESSO THEY MAKE FOR A VERY RELAXED DAY AT THE AIRFIELD

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

JIM : reread Jolly Poppers coments , they are good advice. Even if you aren't the club type if you don't at least visit one you will never know how much good advice and fellowship you could have. Please ~~ DON'T try it on your own. Give your local club a chance. ENJOY !!! RED

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

I will reconsider the club advice, but I am not sure.............I bought the Great Planes PT-20 Trainer with OS .25LA engine.   I wanted the "little" smaller plane than the .40 Cub.  I hope I am doing the right thing. I also bought the Real Flight G5.5 simulator. I hope to get a little bit pilot proficient by the time I get both models built. I will finish the Cub before I start the PT-20.  I think this is right for me, but will have to wait and see. I will keep you informed.

Jim

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Best of luck. The simulator is a great start.

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Jim I think you made a good choice in using a true trainer to learn on but I would have used a 40 size plane that way you could have used the same engine and the plane is bigger and easer to see and fly. I hope you enjoy rc flying as much as all of use here. chuck

RE: Over my head and need help!!
 

Somebody did mention a few "Cub-like" traits... just a heads up here too. Don't be fooled by the high-wing on the Cub, although they are very gentle flying planes. They do have a few bugs sometimes. They "can be" squirrly on the ground, and will ground loop(spin or turn in many directions depending on wind/torque), and just end up all over the place. Not an inherent trait for most tail-draggers, but is certainly possible with the Cubs inparticular... which leads to the other item of being a tail dragger... although most are stable, most if not all(every one I've flown) do require a certain timing as the take-off run begins... it will consist of "right rudder" input, and the amount of "throttle" used. There is a line thats there as to how much/little of each is used for a given plane.. and its not something that's easy to explain... but it will probably take a certain balance of each to maintain a straight heading on take-off runs... as well as using the elevator for the tail position, and even taxiing with a tail-dragger one would probably want to taxi with "full up" elevator, which will keep the tail down, and more importantly keeping traction to the tail-wheel for steering.. if the tail is light.. it will just tack with/into(depending on position)the wind... these are just FYI's that I've experienced with Cubs. Other then this, they are a very decent honest flying plane.

I do hope you take up the club thing... or at least find one friend at a club, as the time it takes to learn to fly(some take a day, most take a few weeks or so) is relatively short.. once you gain some wings from that, you can either go fly whereever you want, or most club fields are deserted through the week. I love going out in the middle of the week by myself(except for Wednesday there's a crowd of "Wednesday fliers" as we call them).. Saturday and Sunday mornings are also nuts.. but theres many hours during the week thefield/runway just sit there all alone. :)