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-   -   Engine mounting bolt question (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/beginners-85/10779996-engine-mounting-bolt-question.html)

csbabich 10-24-2011 07:05 AM
Engine mounting bolt question
 
This is probably a dumb question, but what the heck.

The mounting holes on my engine (ST GS-40), are sized so a 6-32 bolt fits perfectly in the hole. However, the engine is shaped in such a way that it is impossible to insert a 6-32 bolt from the top.

Icould go to a 4-40 bolt, but those seem pretty small for the size of both the engine and the mounting holes.

So my question is this: is it acceptable to bolt the engine to the mount with the bolts"upside down"? That is, with the locknuts on top of the engine mounting flanges?

Thanks

daveopam 10-24-2011 07:10 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
It really makes no difference which way the bolts run through. Whatever gives you the best access is the way to go. So you know, the 4/40 would work also on an engine of that size.
There are no dumb question. The question you don't ask cause you think it's dumb could cost you an airplane, or worse.

David

jetmech05 10-24-2011 07:43 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
I'd mount the 6-32 upsude down before I'd mount a smaller bolt...seems to me the smaller bolt could let the engine move after awhile and mess up the thrust line

csbabich 10-24-2011 08:10 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 

ORIGINAL: jetmech05

I'd mount the 6-32 upsude down before I'd mount a smaller bolt...seems to me the smaller bolt could let the engine move after awhile and mess up the thrust line
That's kind of what Iwas thinking....the 6-32 is nice &snug while the 4-40 has a lot of play.

Thanks for the responses

SeamusG 10-24-2011 10:18 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
I tossed the question to the US support organization for SuperTigres - Great Planes. I'm interested to see what their expert recommendation is. [&:]

csbabich 10-24-2011 10:30 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 

ORIGINAL: SeamusG

I tossed the question to the US support organization for SuperTigres - Great Planes. I'm interested to see what their expert recommendation is. [&:]
Great idea.

Iwonder if engine heat melting the plastic in the lock nuts would be an issue.....

SeamusG 10-24-2011 10:59 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
Wouldn't worry about that at all. File in your "least of my worries" folder.

I would only use ny-lock nuts IF AND ONLY IF I had easy access to the bottom of the engine mount rails. Typical trainer uses what I call "cowl cheeks" which gives you great access to the bottom of the mount rails. Some mounts do not have flat bottoms so nuts will not rest flush to the mount material. If you don't have access to the bottom (cowl) or the bottom is not flat then get a tap for the bolts. There's a nice kit that has 2-56, 4-40, 6-32, 8-32 and 10-32. Of course, 1/4x20 is NOT included. The kit includes the undersized drill bit and the tap. Get a pin drive or T-drive that will accept these "bit" sizes.

csbabich 10-24-2011 11:23 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
I'm building a Kadet Mark II, with a removable cowl, so I have access to the bottom of the mounts, which do have flat bottoms.

Now marking and drilling the holesaccuratelyis an entirely different issue... http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/75_75.gif

JohnBuckner 10-24-2011 12:58 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
CS using if you like, the 4-40 bolts is a reasonable alternative and there is no need to go to inverted bolts. The 4-40's will work fine.

Another alternative that is completely reasonable and reliable in the real world although its dangerous to admit to it, in these forums and that is a #6 sheet metal screw for that displacement. That of course is if you are using a plastic composite engine mount. Works very well indeed if the proper sized pilot holes are drilled. In fact one of the major engine mount manufacturers 'Dave Browns' all include the proper sized sheet metal screws for the size mount and includes the proper size info for the pilot hole.

And CS as far as marking the holes accurately consider the Great Planes hole locater its cheap, and accurate (one of those you can,t live without tools);)

John

SeamusG 10-24-2011 01:00 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
Hey John - what do consider to be the point where you would NOT use sheet metal screws?

JohnBuckner 10-24-2011 01:08 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
ORIGINAL: SeamusG

Hey John - what do consider to be the point where you would NOT use sheet metal screws?


Hi, Well have not found that point yet I suppose the same point Dave Brown mounts does. I have I suppose about four ninety sized ships flying and for years in some cases with those screws and I don,t want to count the smaller ones all just fine and with Dave Brown mounts as well as the screws. Heck even my little 1.5 cc diesel has a Dave Brown and I think #4 screws.

John

JRFisher 10-27-2011 08:30 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
I almost always mount the 2 bolts on the muffler side "upside down". This allows engine removal without removing the muffler.

overbored77 10-27-2011 09:25 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
Are you using hex bolts, or socket head cap screws??

Taurus Flyer 10-27-2011 09:27 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
1 Attachment(s)
ORIGINAL: csbabich

This is probably a dumb question, but what the heck.

The mounting holes on my engine (ST GS-40), are sized so a 6-32 bolt fits perfectly in the hole. However, the engine is shaped in such a way that it is impossible to insert a 6-32 bolt from the top.

I could go to a 4-40 bolt, but those seem pretty small for the size of both the engine and the mounting holes.

So my question is this: is it acceptable to bolt the engine to the mount with the bolts ''upside down''? That is, with the locknuts on top of the engine mounting flanges?

Thanks
csbabich


I do glue the bolts upside down in the maple wooden engine bearers with PVA glue. The heads of the bolts are soldered on a plate glued with 2 component epoxy on the bottom of the bearers.
After this the bottom is closed.
On top I use 2 nuts and a washer on the engine. A second lock washer between the nuts.

For me this is the best way to mount an engine on wood it keeps the bearers inside clean of oil.
To remove the bolts I use the solder iron and make them hot the PVA glue will be liquid again.
Of the top of the bolts I remove the thread so it is easy to mount the nuts.
Only important is to have the miniature tools, you must have these in the service box to mount the engine.
If you want me to show these please ask.

See my pictures.


Cees

ec121 10-28-2011 04:57 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
It is also possible to tap the composite mounts to whatever thread needed. Done that a few times. Use a smaller tap drill for fuller thread. I have threaded the hole through and put a nut on the bottom. It will pull up on a rounded mount and won't vibrate loose. 4-40 should be fine for a .40 sized engine. The screws will will pull into the mount and won't shift. Doesn't take much to hold a .40. Two 6-32s installed diagonally would probably work.

SeamusG 10-28-2011 10:44 AM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
Here's a quote from an email reply from the manufacturer's USservice center:My email explained the problem as originally posted. I made it sound like it was my engine though.
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Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false"UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography" /><w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading" /></w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif]><![if gte mso 10]><style> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}</style><![endif]></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 40px;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"">"Thank you for your recent email. Why can't you mount them from the top? There shouldn't be any problems with mounting from the top.</span>"</p><p class="MsoNormal">
HTH</p><div></div>

csbabich 10-28-2011 12:40 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 

ORIGINAL: SeamusG

Here's a quote from an email reply from the manufacturer's USservice center:My email explained the problem as originally posted. I made it sound like it was my engine though.
<div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 40px"><span new="" style="font-family: ; font-size: 10pt">"Thank you for your recent email. Why can't you mount them from the top? There shouldn't be any problems with mounting from the top.</span>"</p><p class="MsoNormal">
HTH</p><div></div>
ok, that's funny...

sad, but funny...

MetallicaJunkie 10-28-2011 12:49 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
4-40 will work, 6-32 is my favorite size for 60 sized motors up to 150....ive never had bolt failure ... im not sure if you tap, but its the way to go... it much easier , especially if you dont have access to the bottom side on the mount in built up cowled planes

JRFisher 10-28-2011 12:49 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
The person that answered has probably never even seen an engine.

SeamusG 10-28-2011 02:02 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 

ORIGINAL: JRFisher

The person that answered has probably never even seen an engine.
Why on Earth do you say that. Every glow engine that Ihave provides full access to the 4 mounting bolts from the top. Ihave never seen one that you couldn't access them. If the muffler/manifold is in the way - remove it. If you have fabbed a cowl without access to the muffler bolts - the fault does no lie with the manufacturer or their service organization.

oldtyme 11-01-2011 11:08 PM
RE: Engine mounting bolt question
 
I mount most all of my engines with #6 socket head sheet metal screws and all from the top. What length are you using? That may be the problem, I always just use the length that will go all the way through the mount and no longer. I have OS, ST, K&B and Magnum and have never had a problem like the OP described.

Cheers,
Andy


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