Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Do I have to use CA to build my Kadet MK II ? Which do you think is lighter, CA or Titebond? I've started the wings just using Titebond and clamping everything tight till it dries. I've been putting a run of glue right down the center of the gluing area and smoothing it out to cover the entire area that is to be joined.. What do you do when using CA? Just the run down the center and stick it on or just spot it along the joint or what?

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

If I'm gluing balsa with CA, I prefer to run a little along the thin edge of the rib/frame to keep weight down. I've never had good luck using CA to make fillets so I tend to avoid them

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

CA.


Pete

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Yes CA is lighter. <div>
</div><div>And you definitely don't have to use CA if you don't want to. Planes were built for decades long before CA came onto the scene. In fact, I prefer to build using wood glue and only use CA for CA hinges and for hardening threads cut into wood. It's a personal choice on the part of the builder as to what they want to use.</div><div>
</div><div>Ken</div>

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Thanks,
So if I use CA on say gluing two 1/4 x 1/4 sticks together for the spar doublers... Would you cover the entire 1/4 width of the edge to be glued or just a thin line down the center?

When using the titebond I did the run and smoothed it out to the edges with my best tool... my finger. It is just the way I have always glued when working with wood.. Then I read something about glue weight. This is what got me thinking I might be putting to much on.. Also I should mention, when doing it that way, I don't have a tremendous amount of excess glue press out the sides, but still a little.. Hopefully that will give you an idea of how much I'm applying<br type="_moz" />

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

-Spar doublers whether plywood or balsa sticks is an area where I would use epoxy.

I prefer to do most of my build's with CA but do agree with Ken's statement as it really is a personal choice and I do use the aliphatic resin's (yellow carpenters) on a few rare occassions.

However it was a releif to never agine have to use the cellulose cements a byproduct of paper manufacturing (Ambroid, Testor's UHUHart in Europe) and all the extra steps like double gluing and so forth as well as the hardening/cracking in a very few years. I suppose that was not such a hugh problem as the airplanes did not seem to last as long in those days at least for me.

John[8D]

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Yeah, I was thinking the Kit plan would tell me when to use the epoxy on certain areas.. Looks like that's a No

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

I use wood glue mostly. Epoxy where needed, mostly with anything other than balsa. And I use CA as well. They all have their place depending on the builder. And unless your going to use excess amount's of wood glue or epoxy, I don't think it affect's the weight.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Yes that would be a no if you you building from plans as opposed to a kit (a box of sticks/sheets and plans). Even then with the exception of the most basic beginner type of kit with a good beginner oriented construction manual.

More advanced type of kits (the variety of which and steps in difficulty is hugh) You are expected to know what type of adhesives work best for you.


John

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

I have 6 or 7 types of glues on my bench and use what is best for that joint. This is what I said about your trainer build being a teaching aid in itself. I use so much thin CA though that I buy it in 8 ounce bottles and just fill my two ounce bottle that I work with as needed.
Hardwood/ply doesn't not stick well with CA glues so I use 30 minute epoxy for hard woods. Wood glue works on hard wood better then CA but I use epoxy most the time. I use the good old wood glues on things that get laminated and will need sanding or cutting. The planes on my bench now have a laminated leading edgs using several layers of 1/8 balsa then it gets cut/plained down to size and shape then sanded. If I would have used CA I would have never gotten the hand plain through the CA glue and it doesn't sand. I just used Elmer's wood glue.
Everyone, myself included that uses CA too long or in a confined space will start getting a reaction from it. You being in a chair would get it quicker because you are directly over your work.
I even have some Sigment on my bench that John doesn't care for. It's not the best product on the market but it does have it's uses. I still enjoy the smell of Ambroids!! Reminds me of my youth!!:)
I even have a glue stick!! I bought a three pack and already used one on my Swoose builds.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Looks like the only Hardwood parts on my MK II are , wood dowels for the wings rubberbands and a mounting block for the cowl. The rest looks like Balsa

edit.. I guess there is some plywood too.<br type="_moz" />

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Ah Yes but it lost its kick when they took the toulene out;):D Indeed the most enjoyable thing about using the cellulose cements was after the build session and watching 'Our Miss Brooks' on the little tube and chewing the dryed cement off your fingers, Yum[8D]

John

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

FIRE WALL!!! Very important!! I have seen wood glue used and work but I have seen it fail more often. Use epoxy. Get a box of round tooth picks for your shop, that's a life time supply! After the fire wall is installed and you have used angle stock behind it to reinforce it, drilling tooth pick size holes through the fuse and fire wall sides then cutting off the tips of some tooth picks and gluing then through the fuse and fire wall adds a bit more strength. Not a bad idea for a trainer due to some of the landings it's going to see.:) I like to use a bit of thick CA for the tooth picks. I usually have at least a one ounce bottle of thick on hand. It cures slow enough to have many uses.
Bill, if you have a Dollar Store near you then a trip is in order. Go through with airplanes on your mind. Flight box tools are just one item. A couple of weeks ago I found a bubble level with 5 small levels in it, had to have one of those!! You will find a three pack of small tubes of CA, perfect for your flight box!! Use and toss so the tube doesn't leak!
Back to that level, I took it apart, the little bubble levels are now used for setting up CGs on new builds. They are perfect for this.
Later on your going to be asking for info on setting up the control throws, I will show you how to make your own degree throw meters that are sold for $25.00 a piece. I usually have about 6 on hand, even have one in my van for field use. Way easy to make!;) Free is always a good thing! I make them from scrap I have during a build. Used to sell them for 10 bucks at the field for a bit of lunch money.;)
Gene

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Ok, since we're on the subject of glues and the different adhesives that we use. Here is my list. For those that know me, yes you have seen this before. I do have a "canned" response in that I already have this typed out and I am just cutting and pasting here (ok, call me lazy!!!) :)<div>
</div><div><div>I used to use CA's for my building but about 10 years ago I switched to Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, and I won't go back to the CA's. I feel that my building has improved since I've switched because I have more time to get a joint positioned correctly before the glue sets and you don't get those hard knots in the wood that are impossible to sand. Also I didn't like the reaction my body has to the CA fumes. Many call it a CA allergy, but after I've talked to a few doctors and a couple of chemists I find that it's not an allergy but a simple chemical reaction in your body. The CA fumes react with the moisture in your nose, throat, and lungs to produce some very bad reactions. Over time these reactions can become worse with repeated exposure. I've seen people that can hardly breath for 3 days after using it. I wanted to avoid that from happening before it got to that point. So..... here's what I use for my building.</div><div>
</div><div><ul>[*]Elmer's Carpenter's Glue - This is my main adhesive. I use it for the majority of building with balsa and wood to wood contact. For ply's and harder woods I will use epoxy [*]5 minute epoxy - I do have this around but I very rarerly use it. I will usually use 30 minute, but I have the 5 minute around for quick uses that aren't in critical areas of the plane. [*]30 minute epoxy - I use this for critical stress areas on the plane such as wing joints, firewall attachments, horizontal and vertical stabilizer, securing hinge points, and other high stress critical areas. [*]CA's - Yes, I know I said I didn't use these but that's not entirely true. I still use them for a couple of things. I keep thin CA around for hardening threads cut into wood for such things as wing bolts. I may also use it to help hold large constructions together while the Elmer's sets. I will put a couple of small drops on the wood to hold it all together while the wood glue dries. I also do reviews for RCU and I use the proper thickness CA adhesive that is called for in the instructions. I do this because we try to do review planes as the instructions call for. I do have medium and thick CA around but don't use them much. Especially the thick, too many people try to use thick CA to fill up gaps in wood joints but this can be bad, it can lead to a false sense of security because the joint will be weak. Nothing beats wood to wood contact in a joint. [*]Formula 560 - This is a canopy adhesive and that's exactly what I use it for, for attaching the canopy to the fuselage [*]Gorilla Glue - I don't use this glue too much because of the way it expands while setting up. This can be bad if you don't have the area secured properly because it can push the parts out of position before it dries. But I've found that it does have several really good uses, one especially good is if you have areas that need to be filled and secured. You can apply the glue and a little water and the glue will expand out into the area you want to fill. [*]Thread locks - Self-explanatory. I use thread lock to keep nuts and screws in place. Always use blue thread lock so you can remove the nut or screw later. Never ever use red thread lock because it's permenant, you won't get your nut or screw off ever again. [*]3M 77 spray adhesive - This is some great stuff that has lots of uses in our hobby. One that comes to mind right off the bat is when doing cockpits. You can use this spray adhesive to hold items like printed instrument panels in place. [/list]</div><div>
</div><div>Well, that's about all I can think of right now.</div><div>
</div><div>Ken</div></div>

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Thanks RcKen.. That's pretty much what I'm looking for.. A "use this Glue here" list.
Thanks, Bill in Indiana

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

RCKen, very good write up , mirrors my thoughts as well. I probably use less than an ounce of thin CA in a year of fairly active building but lots of Titebond, slow epoxies and Gorilla glue (especially on the electric foamies). One big tip, if using CA on hardwood, first dust the wood with soda (like used in the kitchen) as it neutralises the acid the hard wood contains. The acid is what prevents the CA from making a good joint on hard woods.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Thin CA should run by itself so just hold the two pieces together and run the CA along the seam. You could do both top and bottom seam to be sure.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Oh, so with your technique you don't actually apply the CA between the pieces? You just clamp them and let it run along the seam on the outside edge?

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

Bill, I don't think I saw this mentioned.
Thin CA - put the parts together dry. Clamp or pin so they stay still. Wick glue into the joint. It should cure almost instantly.
Medium or thick CA - Apply to parts and put them together. You want decent coverage on the wood surfaces (no glue = no bond).

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

The thin CA will capillary into the joint if it is tightly pressed together dry. For medium or thick CA you must cover the area to be glued with the glue.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

WHY WORRY ABOUT THE WEIGHT OF GLUE CA IS NOT AS GOOD AS THEY SAY IT IS>> I USE EPOXY OR TITEBOND

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

CA is lighter. I have never broken a glue joint (CA or epoxy) in a crash it has always been in the area next to the joint.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

I have gone to mostly using Titebond as I have found myself very susceptible to the respiratory problems with CA. I do use some CA as well, since there are times it is best for(especially quick repairs, I think I will pick up some of the little ones as someone mentioned.) Somewhere on here I once read that Titebond dries lighter than CA because the water leaves as it dries, while CA cures. However, I can't imagine that it would amount to a big difference in the overall weight of the plane.

As far as what to spread the glue with, I have accumulated a large pile of used gift cards that I use. I can cut them down for small areas. And I have also stuck adhesive backed sandpaper to a few.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

strength to weight the wood glue is way better. i use all wood glue for everything. I use CA for quick repairs. The only time i use epoxy is when fiberglassing and that isnt really required either as i have used fiberglass soaked in wood glue on wing joints and firewalls very effectivly (sp).

I use wood glue for wing joining when its wood to wood. carbon spars i will use a 24 hour cure epoxy. the 5-30 minute stuff to me isnt any better than wood glue.

I feel the wood glue is lighter than CA as people over use the CA.


The real thing is CA or wood glue doesnt matter to much as a lighter servo or engine will far make up the difference in glue weight. I wouldnt worry either way on the weight of which glue you use unless you build with epoxy. one other thing if you mix up to much epoxy and have left over DO NOT PUT ON THE PLANE this just adds weight and no strength.

RE: Which is lighter CA or Titebond?
 

I was going to use a little 15 Min Epoxy on the wing spars of my MK II.. I opened the new bottles and cut the tips.. did the 2 to 1 ratio and tried to spread it on the spar.. I could tell right away I wasn't going to like the coverage I was going get with Epoxy.. I wiped it off and went back to my Titebond.
Just asking this question for fun... How much Epoxy do you think it would take to do a whole plane?