Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

On a product order page there is a technical note saying that a 4 stroke engine is not recommended for the Eagle 2 ARF. A different site for the Eagle 2 KIT recommends engine sizes in both 2 stroke and 4 stroke. Are there structrural differences in the ARF model that prevents wise use of a 4 stroke engine in the Eagle 2 ARF?
Thanks,
elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

I would venture to guess that it is just a miss print. If it is really the case that the eagle ARF doesn't like 4 strokes I would guess it is the vibration, but I don't buy that one. I would think it would be fine. Email Lanier who is the company selling Goldberg stuff and ask them directly and you will know for sure.

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Thanks for the tip. I have some emails out and am waiting for the information. I'll post the answer I get in case someone else is interested.

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Based on what flyboy said, I would have to say he is correct. Besides, why would you want to spend the extra dough on a 4 stroke for a basic trainer? Your cash, but I CAN tell you that the eagle 2, (as far as I know as I built one from scratch but may not still be the case) uses plywood pieces fused together as an engine mount that you epoxy to what basically boils down to pieces of stick (spar like material) onto the sides of a VERY thin plywood side fuse. Therefore, I thought about vibration becoming and issue and ensure that is very secure before every flight. Not to mention, I have been seen dropping some CA in and around the area every so often. So I would venture to say that if the 4 strokes cause more vibration than a 2 stroke (Ima newb so don't know) then that would be the reason. :)

Hope that helps buddy.

S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Vibration is the issue since the engine mount is 1/4 lite ply built into the fuse side. I had an Eaglet come apart with an .26. For my .56 4-stroke on the Eagle, I reinforced the ply doublers with glass, then glassed the 1/4 ply as well. I then laid two strips of 1/8 neoprene under the engine to act as a dampener.

Scott

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Thanks Eaglet,

I just perfer the sound of a 4 stroke. When I was a kid I had a line controlled 0.49 engine with no muffler. It gave my stomach very nerve wracking butterflies. I have listened to a .46 engine with a muffler. It's in the Eagle 2 I'm training on and it isn't so bad while flying, but still gives me a bit of a case of the jitters when I'm close enough to tune it.

I figure the dough is well spent if it makes the hobby more pleasant. I can see the merits of stick building now over the speed and convenience of ARF.

The reply just after yours affirms that vibration is the reason the 4 stroke isn't recommended for the plane. So, I guess I could get the plane first then look to see if there is some reinforcing I can do.

A member of my club recently got an Eagle. Even better than me getting the ARF then experimenting I can ask his opinon on the possibility and ease adding reinforcement to the ARF. He has more experience than I do.

There's balance to consider too. The 4 stroke is already heavier than a 2 stroke, then adding reinforcement also adds weight. Then I'm thinking if the reinforcement isn't taken back far enough from the beginning I could build myself a fuselage with a case of the creeping cracks.

Again, thanks for the input,

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

I had an Eagle 2 with a K&B .61 on it (RIP) Used a thicker plywood plate to mount engine on and some additional pieces of triangle stock. It was 12 years old when I got it. Soloed, and about a month later the area on the fusalage where the dowls go through broke [:o] Further inspection showed covering loose there and wood had become fuel soaked. Still miss it would do the nicest tail slides with that 60 up front.

Rambled a bit, anyway handled the 60 fine but ground clearence will become a bigger issue. Not a lot of extra room to spin a bigger prop.

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

scottrc,

Thanks for the experienced answer. I've been told by friends that if you ask enough people about a problem that eventually you'll find someone who had it before and they'll have the solution.

I have no experience with KITs or ARF. Which did you use? Can a fellow reinforce the ARF version easily enough to undertake the project?

I had an idea that the structure of the plane was in question and that the vibration problem was the reason the 4c wasn't recommended. I also thought it might be possible to install some sort of shock absorbing system, but had no idea what material to use.

Thanks in advance for your input scott,

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Ok, point taken on the jitters while tunning the engine on the Eagle 2 - 2 stroke. I am currently having a nightmare of a time with an Enya40 that I FINALLY got running this year. (haven't flow but once this year, and just learn how to last year).
I don't have a remote needle valve, and some are swearing my engine is great great great and that a remote valve would ruin it. It's perfect and should be great great great. But the fact that I am not in the air and the engine is SO very finiky makes me think that I shouldn't listen very much to many and start listening to a minority few that think the cheap OS engine would be a dream fix for me and my rc'n woes.

Good luck with that plane. I built my from die-crushed kit. At the very least I figure I will know what needs replaced when I auger into the ground. :) Oh no! wait... :(

S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

AllShadow,

Sorry the plane didn't hold up for you. I guess that's a lesson to take extra precutions to prevent fuel from migrating to undesirable places.

Oh well, if it wasn't that it would be something else, just maybe at a later time though.

I asked a club member if using larger wheels would help ground clearance with the big prop. He said it would help ground clearance, but would ruin the asthetics of the plane.

The Eagle ll KIT is relatively inexpensive. You might consider building another if you miss it enough. I'm sure you've thought of using the same engine for something.

Thsnks for the information and tips.

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Sincraft,

I'm sorry to hear you're having such a hard time with the engine. I have to agree with you in thinking it's not so great, great, great to be grounded for so long at a time. There's got to be a better way to make an engine last longer than to not run it.

I guess I'd have to do some research to find out different things to try to get it going. I think I'd also use some other engine in the plane while I set up the ailing one on some sort of external mount and try different things to get it going.

Maybe someone will read about the engine here and send you the solution.

Keep your planes aerobatic, not acrobatic.

Good luck,

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Hey thanks Elad. Yes, but cashflow is a kind of a problem. But I may have to just bite the bullet and get one. However the one I am looking at is a megatech m46, but the carb and throttle are reversed to what I have now. So I have no clue how I would manage that installation. I'm sure I would figure it out in an evening however.
I am also thinking of getting a cheap OS. My brother has one and it flies very silent, starts easily, and never stalls. Sounds like a winner to me. But of the others I have seen via other people brings me to the conclusion that mine is a dog.

OH and like the 'keep your planes aerobatic not acrobatic' thing. hehe :)

S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Sincraft,

I understand well about the cashflow. The only one without that problem is the guvernmint. Even the government tries to convince us that they are running short so they can hit us for another % or two. So, what else is knew?

O. K. so,,, you like the word play with areobatics and acrobatics huh? Well that didn't come from Groucho Marx. It's an original from the sometimes grouchy old elad. ha ha It came to me after watching one of my club members land his plane using the famous cartwheel maneuver.

Use the quote all you like, just remember to give credit at the end to elad, and thanks.

Making the transition of the mufffler and carb form one side of the plane to the other sounds interesting. I'm not nearly ready to tackle anything like that, but good luck with the project if you decide to undertake it.

elad


"Keep your panes areobatic, not acrobatic." ------- elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Hey you know it's funny you mention that. CAUSE THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME TODAY!

My D**N enya engine quite on me today RIGHT after takeoff. And there is NO missed approach or emergency landing area where we fly. YOu have to be good and lucky. Thankfully I had enough sense not to try to force it back full circle and tried to keep it as upright as possible as it doved toward the ground. I ripped my landing gears from teh fuse, bent the front strut which is amazing as it is VERY thick and strong. Ripped the fin from teh back just from the shock of hitting, and put a 1" hole in my wing. All and all it was onyl about a 1 hour repair job and now she is ready to go. The only cost was a prop and some time. Sigh.

S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Sincraft,

WOW! What a crash. You must me some good R/C plane mechanic. Only an hour in the shop. That sounds good after the way you described the damage.

My club is allowed to use my small town's airport for our flying field. The town got a new runway and my club got permission to use the old one. The new runway is 4,500 feet I think. The local planes still use our field for a taxi way some of the time, but there's so little air traffic there that it's no problem to anyone. We get to watch Cesnas etc take off and land while we're out there. Our runway is about 3,300 feet long and we get right about in the middle of it, so there's plenty of room for aborted takeoffs. The airport caretaker bush hogs the grass, naturally, so we can soft land if needed. The only thing I'll need them to add for my learning experiences is a big landing pad for a beginner, a Nerf pad. ha

Hey, Sincraft, there's another good idea for newbies like me , a glow fuel R/C Nerf plane.

So Next time:

Keep your plane aerobatic, not acrobatic. ------- elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Elad,
well...hehe, let's just hope it doesn't get worse than that shall we. :)
I would REALLY love to know how it hit when it did hit the ground. The prop dug into the fuse side a bit and chipped it up. Very slight though. But I did notice that. Then the front wheel strut (typical tricycle trainer strut) was bent back 1" without breaking the nylon 'holder' and pulling any of the screws out. I epoxy'd that though if I recall. I fly gas, no need to build light :) I would still love to know what happened to the fin. The only thing I can think of is the shock from hitting obviously very nose hard, coupled with a twisting front wheel which is also connected to the same servo as the fin..could have caused it to rip out and break the balsa to the point where it was almost completely seperated from the fuse. The servo is acting great though, and no 'chatter'. All in all I guess I was lucky, but knowing my beautifully built model has a battle wound...pi**es me off. Imagine what the guys feel like who own $1000 setups! EEK. Another thing getting annoying are the battle wounds the wing is getting from landing in the tall grass. We are trying to keep our field clean but it is difficult as it is only myself and another cutting the grass at the moment. I was thinking of going flying tomorrow but may not as I won't have anyone there to bail me out. But the weather is going to get real ugly real quick with that hurricane coming up the coast line. Sure to produce strong day long winds till at least Monday, and being near the lakes will create lasting effects probably for another few days till the jetstream pushes it all back out. So I don't anticipate flying for another week plus! :(

WIll update..


S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

LOL didn't catch that one till later. Man you guys sound like you have a nice setup at your club. Most of our clubs from what I can tell have 1/2-1/3 what most people have in size, surrounded by trees and other dangerous dasterdly things. And are always on top of a hill ready to capture the slightest breeze, so checking the winds from home are useless. Hmmm. Wonder if I could setup a cheap wind 'checker' out there? hmmm?

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Hey Sincraft,

Our group sets up right across from the windsock, so we don't have to wonder about the wind. I never walked over to check it out to see what it was made of, but I bet a discarded queensize panty hose would make a replacement in a pinch. If that was ok for Joe Namath to wear ...... what the heck? And a can of flourescent orange paint for color. You might use an old basketball hoop and find some way to balance the thing.

elad


Keep your planes aerobatic, not acrobatic. --------- elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

LOL [sm=biggrin.gif]

We have a windsock. We even have partial electric power AND a water spigget (sp?) WHEW HOO! AND we have a paved runway. Now, it's short. Usually a sport 40 like mine takes 3/4 of the runway to takeoff and about the same to land (with some turns toward the end to bleed the speed)

I was just thinking of something. I am only using 3 channels. I'm thinking BIG parachute! Any ideas? :)

S

P.S. Btw the wind check thing, well I was thinking of something more technologically advanced with a website I could hit to read the currents :)

I guess I'll just pay a local whino to walk up and tell me what direction it's facing and how straight it is. eheh

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Sincraft,

You have me beat with the partial electricity and running water. You guys have to get really good to peg the landings on a too short runway. Your club would beat most of my guys in a landing contest.

I have a redneck solution to the 3 channel parachute launch. Use an open cockpit and dump the chutist by flying inverted. Not very elegant,,,, b u t.

More realistically though, some of the sailplane guys use the same channel to serve as a dual purpose control. Release of their tow rope (string) is accomplished by making the release activate at the extreme end of a chosen servo movement.

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Sailplanes are pretty cool. But in strong winds, they fly SO fast and kinda uncontrollable when you fly with the wind. :)

Partial electric is nice, but for what I am not sure as of yet. Unless I have a quick charger and a electric plane. Well. But right now everything gas, it takes a long time to charge up. If anything, it is nice to 'top off' the batteries in our planes and radios if we plan on making a half o day of flying. I've never done that yet, I really would like to have the time, the weather and the company to do so. I live about 30 mins from my current airfield. Not so bad, but 1 hour total drive and an hour at the airfield is not so bad really. Still gives you plenty of time to do what you need, even after work in the evening. That is why I have been getting so squirly lately not being able to fly. That is also why I hope this darn hurricane will pass over and get clear again real quick. Right now it is tracking to head RIGHT over my house. By then it will only probably be a tropical depression, but we expect to receive 7+ inches of rain. :o

The redneck solution won't work. :( It's a high wing trainer. I was thinking more of a bombbay situation or tail end. :) MUHAHAH Just wait till I get good at this. I love to mod stuff hehe.

I was going to post pics of our airfield on here, but one of the guys is afraid will we get 'shut down' because we are so close to a walking trail now. I hated to tell him that we are private and incorporated thus it didn't make a difference, because I have learned when it is possible to dispute things with people. To be honest, the AMA doesn't even list our airfield as a flying field in our area. It shows two around it, but not this one. I'll tell you one thing, it keeps the crowds down. We watched as two people came from 'the other airfield' with low winger .60 sport planes. The guys had to land in the grass..roll over the runway, and through the last part of grass almost running into the trail before they would be able to slow their planes down. I don't think they were doing so hot though. My trainer can stop pretty quick. ESPECIALLY on grass. If I am going to fast, I just roll into the grass and 20-30 feet she is stopped. The trail, at its closest is about 45 feet away.

S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

elad,

I'll try to take some pics of an Eagle 2 ARF I just built with the reinforced engine mount. This plane has a .46 two stroke, but the reinforcement is the same and works quite well.

I'm at work right now but will try to PM you the pic tonight.

Scott

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

HEY DONT FORGET ABOUT ME ALSO!

Im the eagle 2 guy here! :)

S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Here is a diagram of the engine mount lay-up.

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

scott,

Thanks for the pic.

A lot has happened since my last post.

Since I'be been taking instruction on the Eagle with a 2 stroke and have been getting used to the sound I decided to just buy the one I'm training on. I'll take possession of it this Friday PM. It has a 2 stroke 0.46 FX by OS. As long as the muffler stays attached it won't make me jittery. I have begun to appreciate the power that the.46 has.

After I get plenty bored with the trainer I'll look for something snappier I guess. A lot of flyers are recommending different planes. One I have seen that is always ready for areobatics is one called Magic. It comes in for a landing so slow that you'd think it was trying to run backwards.

Sincraft, I read somwhere you were trying to find some doccumantation on the Eagle 2. Did you find it yet? I don't know if I'll get the plans with the plane or if it's even still available. I will ask about it this Friday if I don't forget.

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Elad,

Thanks for checking, and yes I am desperately looking for them. I lost my instruction manual but still have all the plans. I am not that good of a builder without instructions to know what and when I should be gluing sanding etc. I have a good idea but really need a very detailed (or at least somewhat) explaination of how to construct the two wing halves together AND how to reduce the dihedral to a A or B class wing (I am running with the C class..highest dihedral). I also wanted to add that 4th channel to the plane. Between that and building another sport plane through winter, that should suffice my RC building needs. I had alot of fun building my Eagle II.

Hey can I give you some advice? The Eagle II I built was about 11 years old so not sure if they changed this. But the gears (rear) they put on this thing through the fuse are flimsy at best! I would highly suggest two changes.
1. inside the fuse you will notice they are kept from 'popping out' by a U shaped holder system. I would suggest you glue two pieces of popsicle stick to each side then another wider piece cover both of them creating a box around the gears sticking up through. Otherwise they WILL pop out on even the more gentle landings.
2. On the underside of the fuse. Do not reinforce this too much as if you DO have a VERY hard landing they will pop out instead of ripping the FUSE apart. If anything, replace those nylon straps with something a bit more sturdy but leave the screws the same size so they will rip out if they need to instead of..as I said..ripping apart the fuse.

Like I said though, not sure how they are constructing that now. My bro's trainer has the buildup something like what I speak of, but his are actually solid wood blocks they slide into and those are glued to the fuse bottom and sides. Pretty cool looking. He has bent those thick gears far back and the blocks didnt budge. But then again his fuse sides are solid ply and not balsa'ish like mine though.


S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Sincraft,

OK on what you actually need, the manual, to guide you. As I said, I don't know if it will be available, but I'll try to remember to ask.

The Eagle II I'm getting is the one my instructor soloed with when he learned. He's self-taught and said he ruined 3 planes learing. He learned very well though. His landings are as smooth as butter.

I don't know how old his plane is, or exactly how long he has been flying. He remarked once that the plane hasn't been flown for 3 or 4 years. So, it's at least that old.

He just put a new OS .46 FX on it. It's old enough to be broken in though. It runs pretty good unless it's tuned a little rich, then it wants to die when idling.

I'll take a look at the places where you suggest improvements can be made. I haven't built a plane yet, but can look at the inside of the gear on the back side. It is still wearing the tricycle landing gear.

He did say he built it from a kit. I think it has something like a 16 oz fuel tank. It flies about 20 minutes on a fueling.

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

16 oz fuel tank?!?!?!?!?!? LOL OMG

You sure he isn't a mad scientist? lol Man that is a HUGE tank for that plane. I wonder how he did it. Mine is 8 and I can fly forever it seems heeh. I personally like takeoffs and landings though. :)

Hey thanks for looking for me. If he built it from kit, I bet he at least HAD the instruction manual. That would be great cause you should see how much goldberg wants for a manual. It's ridiculous.

Regarding the Eagle itself. You won't need to crash 3 planes to learn. I have solo'd for my 6th time this Sunday with my total flights just over 12 or so. Very easy to fly and somewhat easy to land as far as I can tell. Mine screams through the air with that Enya 40..so that OS will push you nicely also.

Hey if you want me to, I will send you pics of the adjustments I made to the landing gears. You'll probablly see what I am talking about almost immediately however.

S

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Well anyway,

I "thought he said" it was a 16 oz. fuel tank. Does your Eagle 2 stay up longer than about 20 minutes? Maybe he said it was a 6 oz. and I just heard wrong. Oh well.

Someone on another section of this forum asked about how much extra weight planes would carry. One answer was from someone who loaded his plane with 42 oz. of fuel, if I remember that right. He built the plane up (with a longer wingspan) for a long distance event his club ran. He flew the plane 100 miles nonstop. A team consisted of 3 people, the pick-up truck driver, and 2 who rode in back of the truck, the pilot/co-pilot part of the team. The co-pilot would spot obstacles up ahead for the pilot. They rode along at 60 mph and the plane kept up.

I sorta followed some of your other posts concerning the Enya. Congratulations on getting it worked out. I was half way thinking I would tell you they named it right, the Enya face. Now you can say that to me because it's working so well for ya. ha

I'll enjoy taking a look at the pic of any modifications you've done or might plan on. Right now I'm kinda an appliance pilot. I don't knnow how to build planes even though I'm a half fast carpenter. Plane building isn't the same thing, I know. I should get another digital camera and learn how to post pics. My old one quit about a year ago.

Thanks for sending the pic when you get the chance,

elad

RE: Eagle 2 ARF & 4 Stroke Engine
 

Elad,
The key to posting pics and using a digital camera is FINDING it first (grumbles away from keyboard..then comes back to finish this). Not sure where it is at the moment. Sigh. It could be in one of four places. I don't have much organization in this house. I moved here in October and still have many many things still in boxes.
So anyway, yea I don't know about the fuel tank. Mine is 8oz, I flew what I THINK felt like 10 minutes and it was half full. So MAYBE he was right about the 6oz with some throttle management. I had mine on full throttle the other day the whole flight expect when I did a couple of loops. And after 5 minutes I brought it down just to check the fuel and it was half full. I am not a very good judge of this. I would suggest you check more into this before you take a crash course on dead stick landings. :) But they aren't that bad either. Especially if you have enough real estate. At our airfield, you MUST start a touchdown within about 50 feet or you are going to end up in the tall grass, a car, over a hill etc etc.

Thanks for the congrats on the engine. It's finally somewhat predictable. Which for me is good. Who wants to spend more time playing around on the ground when I can be in the air eh?

As far as that cross country thing goes. I have no idea how they went that far with that much fuel. I heard about stuff like that before but thought I was mistaken in understanding what they were saying. I THEN saw a webpage were this INSANE people take up ultralights with rear facing back seats and fly their planes with their ...planes. Insane. Sounds like a hoot, but still rather insane. I can see it now.

"what you doing"

-"building an ultralight"

"ah sick of the small ones eh?"

-"no I'm building this so I can fly it, then fly my r/c one behind it to a meet where we can fly our rc planes, then I'll return home in the same fashion"

followed by:
:We hearby proclaim Sincraft unfit and of unsound mind to handle his 'estate' and thereby proclaim it property of the state'...

:)

(still sounds fun though)

Anyway, one day soon here, I will fly at half throttle and give you a dead stick report on fuel consumption for the books.

Expect pics soon of my plane in all its full glory. (pending above dead stick experiment doesn't got wrong HA)

S

P.S.- OH btw, building is a good time. You wounldn't have any probs with it. But just fyi, you can buy a ARF for the same price as a kit would cost after covering, glue etc. Amazing, I don't know how they do it. Local hobby store guy swears they are glued cheaply. But I dunno. ARFS were just surfacing and very expensive when I built my Eagle 2. But I think I will build something just for the fun of it. Not to mention, it will be easier to repair what I understand from building it from sticks ya know.

S