The Physics of Flying
 

Can someone point me in the right direction?While building and learning to fly, I'd really like to read up on the mathematics / physics of flying. I'd like to know how to calculate whether or not a particular design should fly or if a plane will fly based on the design (wingspan, cg,etc.. ) and the weight of the model etc.. Any good resources on the calculations involved in flight / aerodynamics?

Thanks!
Tim

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

This site is great for beginners: http://airfieldmodels.com/index.html

Frank http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ades_smile.gif

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9346279/tm.htm

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

www.gettingairborne.com

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

The sticky at the top of the RCUniverse Aerodynamics Forum provides a list of the best and most economical books on the subject. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9346279/tm.htm

The topic takes a book to explain. It ain't sound byte simple. It actually takes a couple of books. The ones listed in that thread happen to be listed in order of "efficiency". The first couple are affordable and written so the average modeler can understand. That list is your answer.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Every pilot should read "Stick and Rudder," by Wolfgang Langewiesche. Not mathematical, and not much about airplane design, but everything you need to know about angle of attack, which is the one concept that all pilots need to master, though many don't.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Hi!
It's all very simple!
Wingloading, Angle of attack , How to penetrate the air and airspeed!
Was it something else you wanted to know?;)

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

And most of all use lots of Liftonium.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

You can stall an airplane at any attitude, at any airspeed, when you exceed L/D max which is the lift to drag ratio!

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Unfortunately that has gone the way of that other rare element....Unobtainium;)

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Do the physics of flying have anything to do with the castor oil we use?

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

:D :D :D :eek: [:-]

I think the castor oil has a lot to with the "physics" of flying that are so often posted in this forum.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Hoss,

I concur! :D:D:D;)

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

HHHMMMMMMM could that be what is ment by flying by the seat of your pants????????????

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

If you're just beginning,and a bit nervous,it could mean whats IN the seat of your pants..that don't smell much like castor oil:)

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

I didn't realize this is a free download - this is an AWESOME reference: the "Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge" - if you are interested in aviation, this is an incredible reference for learning the basics about flight, navigation, airplanes, etc. I asked for this book for my birthday last year, and really enjoy having it as a coffee table book.

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/a...ilot_handbook/

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Calculating if a wing will fly an airplane - that is a LOT of math, and even challenging (in 3D) with appropriate software. But any basic aerodynamics text will start you off on the right path. In short, you need to determine how much air is deflected at each cross-sectional plane of a wing, assuming some velocity, and add the planes together. I have taken a few classes on this and it's still difficult (mechanical background, not aero).

You can research "NACA Airfoils" and see if some standard information is posted regarding the most common airfoil shapes. Maybe you can find what you need and use scaling factors and multipliers.

It is a lot of fun to think about, and I wish I had more opportunity to do this at work (I'm trying, have one more shot at an aero position next year) as it is just time consuming to try to do in my free time.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Time..FREE TIME is your most valuable resource. More valuable than money..you can always make more money but you can not make more time.
What will teach you more in the same amount of time...500 hours of flying 3D profile planes or 500 hours worth of reading about physics..?
Which will give greater rewards..?
Which would you rather look back on someday while you are lying on your death bed...?

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

250 of each would put you in a pretty good place! ;) Learning about aerodynamics has been much more tangible with my model airplane background.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

My goodness young man where have you been. Are you done with school.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Hi Gene :)- I graduated technically in May 2011 (delayed so I could do a co-op) and have been designing combustors for turbine engines since 2010.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Congrats. Good you see you in the forum again. Have you been doing any flying, real and model.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Thanks Gene. I absolutely love my job. I lurk in the pattern forum but not as much unless I've got a project going on, trying to learn from you guys how to get it right. I've got an E-flite bonanza on the bench, and a NIB Comp Arf Integral that's ready to get started. I was going through some relationship stuff so I haven't flown much since the pattern nationals (didn't even get to fly there, just practice). And I'm in the middle of buying a house and moving. Long answer to a short question, but I am now single and am buying a house 10min from the flying field, so you can guess what I'll be doing for the next year or two.

Also there is a place I found to get my pilots license - a cool little airfield where they start you in tail draggers and teach stick and rudder at the beginning. Family owned and operated, a great small group of people. Not sure where I'll find the $$$ though with the new house coming into play...

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

OK, with all of your education I challenge you to build a 1cc powered RC plane that flies faster than what I can build, {with zero education].
Let's put $10,000 on the bet to make it more interesting. That would make it worth my while to meet you anywhere you would like on your home turf.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

I would rather design a 1cc airplane with you, and make it fly farther and faster than we could alone. It sounds like we have our differences; it would be fun to see the ideas we each brought to the table, and we would probably end up with something cool.

I am not sure where the disagreement spawned, but this all depends on what you are after. I enjoy flying my planes, and I enjoy reading my aerodynamics texts. I would be pretty upset if I was on my death bed and never picked up an aero book, and I would be upset if I never flew an airplane. So, I am doing both.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

This thread is about aerodynamic schooling. I challenged it's merits in terms of both time expended and also in terms of practical, real world application.
A speed contest between two .061 [1cc] powered planes is the purest, most basic form of practical knowledge applied...NO...?
There is only the stop watch, the doppler recordings and the onboard telemetry to dispute....no judges, no politics, no white loafers and no "Team Futaba" shirts.
If 1cc is too small for you, then we could shift up to 6.5 cc [.40] size. That would UP the ante though.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

John Anderson texts are some of the best out there. Fundamentals of Aerodynamics is probably the most widely used text and is enjoyable to read. You may be able to find an old edition for $30-40.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Does castor oil have anything to do with it? Well, yes it does, see how the physicists squeak when they don't get enough!

Actually, I wish to add another very good source of information. This is about full scale, but the physics are the same. Very helpful to me.

http://www.av8n.com/how/

Bedford

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Do the classic aerodynamics physics account for the fact that you can not scale down gravity, air molecules or time with miniature airplanes...?

Those books still say that deltas need special airfoils with reflex to fly level....:eek:

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

If you are trying to understand it at the mathematical level:

anyone who starts out with F=MA stay clear, they will bore you with their highschool physics and mislead you with ignorance. Not saying f=ma is wrong, but its way way too simplified to even come close.

You will need a solid understanding of differential equations which requires strong algebraic and calculus skills. Any other way is hand waiving and not a real solid understanding of anything.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Whichever direction the Department of Aerospace Engineering, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...wink_smile.gif Spend 4 years there. Whatever you do do not take seriously any information from the myriad of "experts" in any hobby forum. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...spinnyeyes.gif

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Dont you know most of the people here work for NASA?

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

You don't stall when you exceed L/D max you stall when you exceed the wing stall angle of attack (AOA). The Stall AOA is (usually)way beyond the L/D Max AOA.
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RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Jeesh, a guy asks a perfectly askable question and some ofthe answers discuss the physics of loaded diapers. AMAZING....some folks have entirely too much time on their hands

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Speed and power are NOT complete aerodynamics. The F-104G had razor sharp wings and a big enginethat allowed it to "fly" very fast. But "fly" it did not. It was fondly called the "missle with man in it" because if it lost power it dropped like a rock. Flying is the art (yes, art) of getting a 750,000 pound airplane off the ground with only 250,000 pounds of thrust. That is aerodynamics.

But I do agree that aerodynamic schooling can only get one part of the answer - practical experience gives the rest and that is where the ART comes in. But don't mistake ART in one area (speed or power) as having complete practical knowledge of flying.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

I wouldn't dare challenge an aerodynamicist to a payload competition. Of course as modelers, that's the exact sort of airplane that most of us choose not to either build or fly.
I'll make you the same offer, a simple speed contest with a limited power source. It's a nice, simple opportunity to demonstrate how a classically trained aerodynamicist should be able to blow the doors off some bumpkin who got his knowledge off the back of a Wheaties box.
Don't you think so..?

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

No I don't think so. The OPs question was about learning the math and physics of FLYING, not how to pull ahuge razor blade, adoghouse or even a pig around the sky.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Well there are a plethora of AMA formula speed events that await new designs gleaned from the back of a Wheaties box. If you truly got game, prove it there. Pylon has the saying "When the flag drops, the BS stops".

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Pylon is a flyer's event. Straight line speed has more to do with the plane's design superiority and less about the pilot's ability to line it up for a timing pass.

RE: The Physics of Flying
 

Ok. This has gone from a question about dynamics and physics of flight to a down-right bar-fight. So say good night, Gracy.

CGr.