Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Hi all. Im sorry if this has been posted in the past. But oh well thats the scourge of the uneducated forum interwebz poster http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...n/drowning.gif

Tongue in cheek humor there if it wasnt obvious.

But back to the poll. Ive been running RC land vehicles since the mid 80's and tho I still love it, I am wanting to venture into planes. Ive wanted to take this challenge for many years and I find that now is a good time to do just that.

Im wonder what the general concensus is between Electric vs. Nitro for planes. In the cars/trucks, Electric is where its headed. But I still see lots of nitro engined planes. Looking at this from my newbs standpoint, it appears that nitro is still king of the air. Any speculation on that? At this point I can go either direction for my first trainer. I have lots of time to get ready, as winter is making its appearence here in So.NH and the local clubs are quiet now as far as getting hands on training help from them.

I have plenty of nitro experince, and have been getting some good experience with LIPO, so I have no bias either way. I am looking closely at the Hobbico NexStar trainers, but am keeping my eyes open to any possiblilty for a few months before I commit to spending my money on something.

Thanks in advance, any comments and insight is appriciated.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Your poll really depends on many factors.
If you are set up to run nitro with cars then you probably have most of the support equipment to move over into nitro planes. If that's the case I would say look at a nitro plane. The Nexstar is a good plane BUT it's overpriced (new)in my opinion. Try looking for a used one as a lot of time folks buy that  Nexstar package , hardly use it, and then loose interest. There are other nitro trainers as well like the Tower Trainer, SIG Kadet, and others.
Buying used nitro trainer planes is usually a good and cheap way to get into flying as sometimes you can get everything you need; plane ,engine,,transmitter, etc...all together. Eventually you can upgrade to a better transmitter if you stick with it.
If you were just starting out I would say look at an electric RTF package like the Eflite Apprentice . It's a good trainer and is a plane you can stick with as you improve your skills (just like the nitro Nexstar, Kadet) and you get everything you need including a decent 2.4 transmitter, battery, and simple charger. Eventually you could upgrade to a better transmitter and charger if you stick with it.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

While there is nothing wrong with electrics per-se, there are advantages to starting out with a glow ( or gas ) trainer.

For what you would pay for a startup setup in electrics, including chargers, half a dozen spare battery packs, etc... you could get a much larger easier to see Nitro/Gas plane that you can fly all weekend long.

Many clubs advocate or utilize Nitro/Gas trainers to train beginners, and some even limit test certification to gas/glow planes.


There is a bit more to learn with Electrics, especially as you move to the larger sizes.


I recommend novices stay AWAY from most ( but not all ) foam/electric trainers as they tend to be "one season" planes.

Even if it doesn't end up as a pile of broken foam pieces flying away in the wind, by the end of your first year a foamie is going to look horrid.

Most glow/gas trainers can be easily repaired to better than new state, and the skills you learn in doing this help you as you move to much larger aircraft.

Get a glow/gas trainer and see how it goes. As mentioned you can often find great deals from people moving up to something larger...

If you find that the "addiction" has you by the throat, you can always move toward electrics later too and be in a better position to do so.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

My vote goes for glow/nitro for learning.

Glow trainers tend to be larger than electrics and fly with more authority, useful if you are not blessed with light winds all the time. Sure you can get bigger electrics, but batteries get bigger and more expensive. Also, with glow you can fill and fly without worrying (as much) about battery management, so potentially you can get more flight time in.


Terry

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Since the electrics have matured, I'd say learn with the electrics, then migrate to nitro. Unless one is into half-A, the larger planes tend to rekit themselves easier. Once someone has learned to control an electric park flyer, it is just that much easier to move up. Plus, the trainer systems are much more affordable, giving a person stick time before dorking that electric.

Even with 2 channels, one learns one of the hardest perception problems, left versus right coming and going, interactivity of controls (more rudder causes nose to drop, pick up speed), judging landings, deadstick flying, etc.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

First, your pole is in the beginNer area for fuel planes so I would expect you to get more votes for nitro/glow here. If you posted it in the Electric Universe beginner area I would expect you to get more votes for electric trainer.

If you are going to join a club and fly at a club field I would follow the lead of the club instructors. Clubs tend to favor one type over the the other. At our field it is electrics or gliders, no glow.

If you are running glow cars then glow will be easy for you. If you are running electric cars, then electric will be easy.

If you are going to fly outside the club environment in open lots and parkingfields,I would definately get an electric trainer. They tend to be smaller, quieter so you are less likely to be chased off. Andthe electric RTF trainershave gotten quite good. The Parkzone Super Cub is my most recommended RTF electric trainer. The Apprentice, mentioned above is also good.

The beauty of foam is that it is hard to break and easy to fix. No special skills needed. No fixing wood structures and no covering to mess with. But foamies can get beat up. But you can often replace parts fairly easily.

Flying planes is very different from runnign cars. If you stop a car, it just sits there. If you stop a plane, or fly it too slowly,it drops out of the sky
. Cars are 2D and planes are 3D. Very different.

Get some help if you can.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Knowing nitro and glow engines, I say go glow. You will learn more of the important stuff. Get a high wing type with a decent .40 to .46 engine. You need 4 channels minimum. 4 servos a must and 5 is better however I have instructed off and on for over 45 years. That included no-buddy-box time frame.
Electric is just not my style. An airplane with no noise is judt not my thing. ;)

Don't go for the engine that is the "sooo powerful" bs. A beginner, even one that knows nitro, will discover a new world when he goes airplane flying. Different world.
The TOWER ARF Trainer is my choice. WHY?
1. The Twr Tnr is an excellent choice. The lookalike from Great "PAINS" has far too much dihedral. Too much wallow! Thus the Tower machine. GP is the mother store, Tower is the offspring.
2, It is a stable flier but capable of good aerobatics and can be used for years as a stable Fun Fly entrant, retrain if laid off for a time and practice landings like making a take-off, pull up into a tight 1/2 loop, throttle back and make a half-loop down to touchdown in same spot of take-off. Fun!
3. Any decent .40-45 will do well with this machine. It's fixable after serious crash damage, BTDT in Fun Flys, and some newbies that freeze up on a perfectly nice approach but at touchdown or close, they lose it big time and dive into the ground. The newbie has trouble associating BACK stick with the airplane going UP. They think for airplane to go UP then move the stick UP toward the top of the trans.. Not a good thing as they are rounding out. [:@] My draw ain't that fast anymore!
4. The Tower tner. is heavy enough to make good landings, yet light enough to make good landings.

5.For Training do NOT get talked into a Nextstar, a P-51, or a Piper Cub.

6. Also with a high wing Tner of roughly about 5#, Use a decent prop to fit the AIRPLANE coupled with the engine. DO NOT select a 10-6 but an 11-4 or 5. You get extra thrust/acceleration for take-off and slow-down drag for landing. A 10-6 will work but it makes landings more difficult due to additional accelerated airflow over the wing/stab and added airspeed when on final approach. So many of the current newbies associate a prop size with engine. In reality the association should be between weight and wingloading, and what the airplane is to be used for. Ever notice that how a multi engine 1:1 scale never goes to idle until just after touchdown?

So, wiwt, lots to do differently, however you can operate an engine which puts you well wbove thos that have not. You may well need a couple trips around the field.
Once you get the aerodynamics down then go play with your ohms, watts, and such! :)

Edited to add: agear reminded me of something: On a car, you initiate a turn and hold the wheel into a turn in the selected direction until about pointed in said direction.
In an airplane you roll into a BANK angle. Stick comes back to neutral or about. Nose falls/or airplane starts descending so you need to bring stick back to some nose-up, because the lift vector is no longer straight up. The lift holding the machine is now a factor, of the triangle. In addition there is a lift vector pulling the machine into the turn. When you roll out of the bank then the original is back to holding. That is why those sticks get a lot of use. Pressures rather than long movements are the key.
3D well that is a whole nother game. I am not licensed there.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

I switched from glow to electric. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

I prefer flying glow planes. I like the sound, I like engines, and I like consistent power from start to finish. I started getting in over my head a little too early (pumping a 1.20 two stroke, bad idea, and messing around with YS without any local YS support at my club). I ended up with frustrating 'dead sticks', which was especially annoying because I got into contest flying, and really wanted to be thinking about the airplane and not the engine.

The advantages (to me) of electric: I like that the system works when it works, and doesn't when it doesn't. There's no tuning, either you get great power or you get nothing. I like not having to change my clothes to fly my planes. I can fly in my work clothes, and spend less time cleaning and packing up. I like that electrics are quiet, which lets you fly earlier and/or later, and fly in places where there are noise restrictions.

Electric (I think) has a big learning curve. The power system is just that: a system. You need to pick the motor, the batteries, the prop, and the ESC all together, which requires more planning, and the use of online 'motor calc' tools. Electric is a larger expense up front; batteries are not cheap (there are cheap batteries, but no matter what anyone says, you get what you pay for - less power, less flights, more weight, whatever it is). You need a charger. If you want to charge at the field, you need power (electricity, a generator, extra batteries, or a 12V marine battery). If you fly different size planes, you need different size batteries. If you get enough batteries to fly your 60" plane for the day, then you get a 36" plane, you need all new batteries.

Glow fuel was expensive when I was in Vermont - $35-40/gallon. Here in Ohio, it's $18 or so. That was another reason I made the switch. If I were in Ohio, I might have stayed with glow.

If you get into BIG planes, then you will want to run GAS, which should be a natural progression from glow engines. Big electric planes use big, expensive batteries.

I LOVE watching the bigger YS-powered airplanes fly. They sound amazing, the smoke trail is cool, and they have gobs of power.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

It might be due to the fact that they have constant speed props, so they can flat pitch them (or even go beta) to increase drag. But I agree that a lower pitch prop with more diameter improves most trainers.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

In a nutshell, assuming we're talking about flying the same plane with whichever power system we pick (ie, a Tower Trainer .40 with either a .40 glow engine or comparable electric system)

Glow
Pros: much cheaper (even with fuel), a bit more durable in crashes, no fancy charger needed, the noise is fun, you can fly as much as you want without stopping
Cons: messy, less reliable until you learn how to tune (not hard), power comes on a little slower, usually a tad heavier, requires a field box full of support equipment, more maintainence

Electric
Pros: Simple to get started, no tuning to learn, power is instant, lighter weight if you spend the money on the best components, clean, covering lasts longer and you have more paint options
Cons: Waiting for batteries to charge between flights, a computerized charger is required, much higher startup cost, batteries are fragile and easy to ruin

Now if you're asking about a traditional .40 size trainer vs. a small electric like a Super Cub or Apprentice, then it's apples vs. oranges. The glow plane will definitely fly better, but the smaller size of the electrics lets you fly in planes the bigger planes can't. Obviously the cost differences change dramatically when we're talking about a small electric vs a big glow plane.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Looks like you have gotten a pretty fair set of opinions.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Glow teaches you to tune, experiment with fuel, plugs, pipes, and the engine is relatively tougher for those bumpy landings as you learn to land. If you go EP, get some shafts for that delicate motor ahead of time. Glow eliminates the urge to cut corners on safe places to fly. Also, you learn to use rudder more with a glow powered plane than a park flyer that doesn't require a runway. Combat guys rarely get to taxi planes either.
It's a 1 minute clean up chore on a glow mode and while I'm at it, I check it over for the next flying day, or find an excuse to upgrade some hardware.

Finally, Nexstars crash easily, $400 on the runway can cost beginners the hobby. None of the screw on tape on junk does anything at all to enhance the flight of that grand piano of a plane. Don't do it. Take the Tower advice mentioned before. They're even having a sale on Tower right now on all ARFs and some kits, and free shipping over $99. Crash up the ply and balsa nose, and it's repairable too.

Even better, if you're willing to kit build, this is the forum to learn from the experts with so many documented build threads loaded with tips. Without that opportunity to learn, it's the missing half of the hobby.

What is the life expectancy of an electric set up? I have glow engines older than me that still run.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

When I teach someone to fly I do it with glow. Learning to fly takes flight time and if a newbie comes to the field with an electric plane and two batteries it's not much help. With my simple Tower trainer, I get at least a half dozen 20 minute flights and then top off the 2000Mah battery and go for more. The whole key with learning is getting flight time and if a beginner doesn't have enough batterries or a good charger you lose a big part of the day. I tell people that after they learn to fly they have a lot of choices, but IMO I'll always say glow.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Extra motor shafts? Never heard that one before. 9 years of flying electric and have never replaced a motor shaft.

Life expectancy of an electric set-up? Hard to say. Will have to get back to you if I ever have to replace a motor.

Iwill say that the cheapbrushed motors (still used in some low endplanes) dotend to lose performance over a couple hundred flights as the brushes wear out.Ihave yet to replace one due to wear. Howeverreplacement cost, $5 to $10,is about the price of a glow plug.I am sure those long lived glow engines have gone through more than a few glow plugs over their life.

There arebetter brushed motors that havereplaceable brushes, but the cost ismuch higher. Ihave never seen one that I recall, butI have read about them. I doubt they are much used anymore.

Most of the electric flying hobby has gone tobrushless motors. Basically they never wear out, are incredibly reliable and very powerful.

Regardless of whether you go glow or electric, there will be things that break and things that wear out. So it doesn't really matter, especially when you are talking about your first trainer.

SIZE MATTERS

I will note that electric flying tends to be toward the smaller end of the weight range. Many can be hand launched with no need for a groomed runway, or can be launched off a short section of dirt, blacktop or even short grass. Most electrics are under 10 pounds and I would guessthat more than halfof the electric planes sold are probably under6 pounds, which would be right around the .40 glow class of planes.

If you have any interest in selflaunched gliders, quad copters or things like that, they are almost all electric.


Glow planes tend to be larger. Probably the vast majority are over 5 pounds. From what I have seen,most are flown from some kind of groomed runway. If you are attracted to larger planes or even giant scale, they can certainly be electric, but this is where glow and gas really shine. And of course some people really love the scream and smoke of a glow engine.

While these things really don't enter into your choice of trainer the will enter into where you go after you learn. If you want to go big and loud, go glow.

If you want to go smaller, quiet, maybe fly in your living room, go electric.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

It's the batteries that wear out. A speed controller will occasionally burn up, but if you size them right that's pretty rare. But in a nose in crash, a brushless motor isn't going to fare well. I had a .40 glow engine that I drilled straight into asphalt that still ran like a dream afterwards. No electric is going to do that.

I see some confusion in the thread though that I'd like the OP to clear up. Is he comparing a cheap electric park flyer to a standard .40 size glow trainer, or is he comparing powering the standard trainer with either electric or glow? If it's the former, the conversation becomes more about the which plane flies better (the bigger one hands down) more than which power system is better. If it's the latter, then it comes down to cost vs. convenience and the number of flights he can get in in a day. 3 batteries (if he buys good ones) will be enough for a day's worth of flying. Most quality batteries will charge at 2C, so if he puts the first on on the charger right after flying it will be ready by the time he's done with the third one. He'll have a wait a little while after his 4th flight, but taking a break isn't a bad idea when training anyway.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

He is right. The typical life cycle of a good lipo pack is about 250 to 400 cycles.

Let's say you have 3 packs and 3 charges in a day of flying for 9 flights.Ifwe use 300 cycles, then that would be about 100 days of flying from a lipo pack.

If you get out4 daysa month for a 6 month flying season that would be about4 years on a battery pack.How much does a battery pack cost? Depends on how big your plane is.

Let's say it is $50, so every 4 years you would replace 3 battery packs for $150. Want to be more conservative, then you replace them every 3 years. Fly more often than that, you can do the math.

I did a set of calculations one time. Over a 3 year period, the cost of fuel and the cost of batteries were within 25% of each other, depending on how much you payed for each. But again, the electric planes tend to be smaller. If you are flying 1/4 scale birds, the packs could be $300 to $400. While there are a lot of 1/4 scale electrics out there, most are fuel powered.


Charge times were mentioned earlier.

Today'shigh C rated Lipos can be charged at 2-3C and some even higher rates. That means a full charge in 20 to 30 miuntes.

In larger planes they oftenuse the A123 type cells which are also Lithium chemistry but can be chargedmuch faster, frequently taking a full charge in 10 to 15 minutes.

So battery turn around is approaching the typical turn around of a refueling with liquid fuels. Naturally if you don't fully deplete them then it takes less time to charge them.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

After reading up thru post #16 I will agree with that.

And I do appriciate everyones input. Im taking it all in and will continue to read and listen to what anyone add's for advice. A couple of the posts do have me thinking about avoiding the NexStar's. To my extremely limited knowledge of where to start, t me the
NexStar looks like a champ for the novice. But the comments above made me stop and think....and this is why I started out asking before I spend a penny...the whole 'a fool and his money' thing comes to mind. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...eeth_smile.gif

As far as heading in a particular direction. I have tons of tools for RC repair. Buying more specific to a flyers feild box is just part of the fun. I also have a nice lipo charger for my rc vehicles, so I have some of the basics on hand and would just need to fine tune my tools and parts to which ever direction I choose to go.

I have gotten my AMA membership out of the way. I have 2AMA club flying feilds with in 10 minutes of my house and another 2, 30 minutes away. A few more than that in less than an hour ride. So I do have every intention to get involved with clubs and learn to fly with them. At this point Im taking it serious enough that I just bought the RealFlight 6.5 to work with over the winter. IMHO theres no substitute for stick time and the RF 6.5 will help me with the right/left/up/down vs. comint at me or going away coordination.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

I would ask, what is your budget and or comfort level with people and equipment. If money is not an issue, then buy new, but if you have a budget, then talk to clubs, ask around, look on craigs list, I have seen many, many good used airplanes and deals for quit a bit cheaper. Every February our club has an auction and I have seen many many planes with engines sell for less then $100. I would also highly recommend buying a flight sim, I use Phoenix and it works very good and would save you some time and money in the long run.

Jon

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Oh in post # 17 I mentioned that I did just buy a sim. The RealFlight 6.5.

As far as a budget goes. Right at this point I want to keep it under a thousand. I want to have a decent radio that will grow with me. So a 5 to 7 channel w/mutli model capabilities. So that could easily be in the $300-$500 range new. The rest would be needed for the plane and whatever I need to get it off the ground. I prefer not to get that spendy if I dont have to. But I do prefer buying new. I generally dont buy used unless Im already familiar and confortable with the person selling it. Ive spent some time looking at the Tower Trainer thats been mentioned. It with an basic OS engine, basically flight ready with some spare props etc. would be in the $350 brand new range. So with that and a decent radio system, Id still have room for fuel, spare parts and have a good start on a feild box.

I am, and always was leaning towards nitro. I am set up for electric as I do run Lipo's in my ground RC's...which has become more of the norm there at the moment, and even more likely to replace nitrovehiclesas time goes on. But here in So. NH near the coast where I live, we dont realy have wide open parks suitable to fly planes in. And running on someones private property is off limits without tracking down an owner and getting permission. So joining an established flying club makes sence. All the ones Im already familiar with have their feilds located in area's where the nitro engine noise isnt a problem.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

I fly nitro however I did try gas but I didn't like the smell of gasoline. With that said I would learn on electric and then go gas or nitro. Electrics are easy to use and are less stressful because they make little noise. Don't be fooled by size since that is relative. I flew both; 30, 60 and 90 size helicopters and the bigger they got the further I could fly from myself. Get yourself an electric 4 channel semi trainer from Park Zone and you will do just fine.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

What follows was written for new pilots who know very little about flying or about radios. As I don't fly glow, this is based more on the needs of electric pilots but Idon't think it is overly biased. Since you have the budget you can afford a pretty nice radio, but you may find a nuget of value in this write-up.

With your budget, If you want to get into complex planes, copters, gliders some day, I would suggest you look at the Hitec Aurora 9, the Futaba 8FG, JR 9503, Spektrum DX8 or the Airtronics SD10G. These will fly just about anything you could want to fly.Only the DX8 lacksglider/sailplane programming. If you want to bring the $$down a bit to leave more for the trainer then look at the Spektrum DX7s, Hitec Eclipse 7 Pro,Futaba 8J. Iwould not go below these. Only the Eclipse 7 Pro has specific glider programming.


<div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">How To Select Your First Radio</font></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">by Ed Anderson
</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">If you go through the beginner section on any of the major forums you will see this question, or some version of it over and over again. And you will see it in the advanced flying sections too. That&rsquo;s because the radio is the single most important tool you will use to fly your model aircraft. Without the radio control system there is no radio control flying. So, how to choose?</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">If you are totally new, never flown, and if you are going to learn without using a buddy box, I usually recommend an RTF,ready to fly, package that includes the airplane, radio, all the electronics already installed in the plane. It usually includes the battery and charger too. This eliminates so many decisions and considerations and points of confusion. This lets the pilot focus on learning to fly. Which RTF? That is a question for another discussion but there are lots of good ones out there. They all come with a radio that should be adequate to the task of flying that plane. And the value of the radio, in that package, is typically so small that even if you never use it for anything else, that&rsquo;s OK.</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Once you have your basic flying skills down, NOW we can start to discuss what you want and need in a radio that will carry you forward. You will have more time to read and talk to other pilots so you will have begun to learn about the aspects of RC flying. You will be better prepared to understand the information below and to address the questions we will ask as we try to guide you. </font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Standard vs. Computer Radios</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">A standard radio is one without model memories and usually very little, if any mixing capabilities. The Spektrum DX5e or the Hitec Laser 4 would be examples of standard radios. Standard radios are fine when you get them in RTFs or if you plan to have a dedicated radio for each plane. Otherwise get a computer radio that has model memories. Enough on that topic.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Brands vs. Off Brands</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">There a lots of good radios out there. The major brands in North America are Futaba, JR, Spektrum, Hitec and Airtronics. All others have relatively small market shares, but that doesn&rsquo;t mean they are bad. The major brands are all safe bets and all have great service. You will find those who love one over the other and those who hate one vs. the other. But in the end, they all have good products. If you go outside these brands you may get a great radio too but the level of service and support may not be up to the standards of the brands. So if you go outside the brands, consider where you will get help if you need it. Going &ldquo;off brand&rdquo; can be quite easy if your friend has one or if you a member of a forum with lots of users of this radio.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Budget</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">How much are you willing to spend? As you shop for radios notice that radios often come packaged with other stuff. That might be receivers, servos, cables, switches, etc. When you evaluate the price of one radio vs. another you MUST take into account what is included in the package. A $150 radio is not cheaper than a $180 radio package that comes with a $50 receiver.</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">The more you can spend, the more capable radio you can buy and the less important the rest of the questions become. Once you get over $400 for one of the band name radios, they all pretty much can do what you are likely to need to do to fly almost anything, as long as they have enough channels. You will get all kinds of opinions from advanced pilots as to what is better for what, but they are talking shades of gray here. If you can spend $400 or more on a major brand radio, then buy whatever you like or whatever your friend has or what you see in the champion pilotsflying in the radio ads. </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">If you don&rsquo;t have $400 for a radio, then you have to be more selective. But you can still get a very capable radio for under $200. You just have to be a little more specific as we start finding limitations. Of course these limitation may not matter to you so don&rsquo;t feel you are buying junk. Just maybe you are not buying a lot of stuff you don&rsquo;t need. </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">When discussing budget, state a number. Asking for an inexpensive radio means nothing. When considering my needs, I consider $250, for the radio alone, an inexpensive radio. How about you? No matter what it is, start with a number. Does you budget include a receiver? Servos? State a number and then define it.</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Naturally there are lots of used radios. Buying used radio is like buying a used car, it may be great or it may be a dog. When you buy used you take a risk. As long as you accept that, you can consider used. </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Last, forget about the &ldquo;best&rdquo; radio or the one that will last you the rest of your flying career. There is no best and we all tend to want to trade up after a while. But even a basic 6 channel computer radio can serve you for decades of flying fun if your needs are basic. I have friends who have been flying for decades, who are instructors and who are flying radios that they love but that would not meet my needs at all.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Trainer Port</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Will you be working with an instructor using a buddy box? If so, what radios will work with your instructor&rsquo;s radio? Buying a cool radio then not being able to get flying instructions really doesn&rsquo;t work well.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Types of Aircraft</font></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Computer radios typically have some level of software for airplanes and most include some type of helicopter software too. This software can go from basic to advanced and usually the more advanced the software the higher the price of the radio. Many do not include specific software for sailplanes/gliders which are the same thing for the purposes of this discussion. That does not mean that you can&rsquo;t use them to fly gliders. Gliders are just specialized forms of airplanes. What it means is that the radio&rsquo;s software will not include the special mixes that many gliders pilots want. So, if you plan to fly gliders you may wish to look for a radio that includes glider mixes.</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">There are also quad copters, aerial photography and first person view as other forms of flying. They may require special software or they may require extra channels. Before you buy a radio, talk to people who do this kind of flying. It would be very disappointing to buy a radio only to find it can&rsquo;t fly the aircraft you just purchased.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">How Many Channels?

While there are some interesting four and five channel computer radios, I am going to recommend you get a computer radios with six or more channels. I don't see any real benefit for having less than six channels, as the cost difference is small and the benefits of 6 or more channels is high. Even if you are flying a rudder elevator glider or electric airplane today, next year you may be adding ailerons and flaps and landing gear. So get a radio that can handle at least that, and that would be 6 channels.

Why would you ever need more? Here is a typical channel breakdown, regardless of whether you are flying electric, glow, gas or gliders, giant scale or highly detailed scale models. Jets, advanced Helis, first person view may have other needs, but it still comes down to channels.

Rudder &ndash; 1 or 2
Elevator - 1 or 2
Ailerons - 1 to 4
Spoilers - 1 or 2
Flaps - 1 to 2
Tow hook - 1
Landing gear - 1
Motor &ndash; 1 to 2
Smoke, lights, Other &ndash; 1 to ?

That makes 4, 5, 6, up to 18 channels depending on what kind of aircraft you have and how you set it up. So how many do you need?

In my opinion, most sport flyers will be well served for a long time with a 6 channel entry to mid level sport computer radio but more channels could come in handy in the future. If you are planning to become a more serious competition pilot, plan to fly giant scale, full house sailplanes, jets or are very interested in having cameras, lights, smoke or other things on your plane, that you can control from the radio, 6 may not be enough. </font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970"><font face="Verdana">Basic Features

Most currently available new computer radios offer the following features. Regardless of what you are flying, I highly recommend your radio have these features.

* Model Memories (at least 10)
* Low Battery Warning
* Trims on the channels controlled by the stick(s).
<font color="#000000">* Timer &ndash; highly recommended but not required</font></font></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Verdana">* End Point Adjustment/Adjustable Travel Volume
* Subtrim</font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Verdana">* Dual Rates and/or Exponential on ailerons and elevator. </font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Verdana">If you are flying 3D you want it on the rudder too.</font><font color="#000000" face="Verdana">
* Elevon/delta wing and V-tail mixes
</font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="Verdana">If it doesn&rsquo;t have these, don&rsquo;t buy it!</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Model Memories</font></div></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">How many planes do you plan to own and fly? Twenty years ago, when everyone was building kits, when electronics were costly, you might have 2 planes flying and maybe 3 in the hanger without servos, receiver or a motor. Oh, there were always guys with 30 planes, but if you had 3 models flyable then 3 model memories were plenty. Today, I would consider 10 the minimum. Planes are cheap, electronics are cheap and &ldquo;bind and fly&rdquo; types are so easy to pick up and take flying. Some radios will now let you save models to a memory card or to download them to your computer. If you can save aircraft profiles outside the radio, 10 model memories are probably plenty to hold what you are currently actively flying. If you can&rsquo;t save them then I would consider 10 an absolute minimum. More is always better.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Type of flying and surface mixes </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">After model memories, surface mixes are one of the great features that computer radios bring to the game. Input to one control can move 2 or more servos in a coordinated fashion to create the kind of surface control you need. I use some mixes that move 5 servos at once. This can reduce the pilot's workload while providing very consistent behavior. In some cases these mixes can be overridden during the flight or can be turned on and off.

In the list below, where two surfaces are listed, the first is the master and the second follows, sometimes called the slave channel. The following list is what I would consider the <u>minimum</u> set I would want in even an entry level radio. They may be named mixes or they may be able to be created by &ldquo;user mixes&rdquo;.</font></div><div>
<font color="#191970" face="Verdana">* Flapperon - requires two aileron servos on separate channels
* Aileron to rudder mix (coordinated turns)
* Flap to elevator mixing for landing and glide path control. </font></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">* At least 1 user defined mix</font></div><div>
<font color="#191970" face="Verdana">You should find these on even the most entry level computer radio. If it doesn&rsquo;t have these, I would recommend you don&rsquo;t buy it.</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">For many pilots this is all they will ever need. But if you plan to get into full house sailplanes, competition pattern flying or other advanced forms of flying you may need other mixes. Talk to friends and people on the forums to ask them what mixes they use. Some are only available in those much more expensive radios so don&rsquo;t put them on your required list unless you have the budget and REALLY need it. Remember, people flew RC aircraft for decades with 4 channel radios without any surface mixing, and so can you. </font></div><div></div><div><div>
<font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Receiver Selection</font></div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Without the receiver, the radio is useless, so receiver selection is important. If you are flying larger planes you may have lots of room for the receiver, but if you are flying small planes, the size and weight of the receiver can be critical. Putting a 1 ounce receiver in a 6 ounce plane just doesn&rsquo;t make sense and it likely won&rsquo;t fit. If you are into indoor flying or micro planes you want them really small and light. Some brands offer &ldquo;bricks&rdquo; that are ultra light packages that combine the receiver with the ESC and perhaps servos. If this is your interest, make sure your radio brand has these available.</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">If you have a 6 channel radio you can use a receiver that has more than 6 channels. Sometimes we use those extra slots for things that the radio does not control, like plane finders. So having receivers available with more slots than your radio can control might be useful. </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Most 2.4 GHz radios have very specific protocols that are used for the radio to talk to the receiver. In many cases you must buy the same brand of receiver as radio. And in some cases there are different protocols within the brand. For example, Futaba has FASST and FHSS radios in their line. The receivers are specific to the protocol. So a Futaba FHSS radio can&rsquo;t fly a Futaba FASST receiver even though they are both 2.4 GHz. </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">In the 72 MHz days it was common to find &ldquo;compatible&rdquo; receivers. For example, you could buy a Hitec or Berg receiver to use with your, Futaba, JR or Airtronics radio. That went away with the dawn of 2.4 GHz, but compatible receivers are now becoming available. Today there are compatible receivers for Spektrum/JR DSM2, Futaba FASST and Hitec AFHSS 2.4 GHz radios. There may be others as well. If the cost of receivers is important to you, and you would consider compatibles, then this may help influence your choice of radios.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Bind and Fly/TX-R/others</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">In the old days, 10 years ago, you purchased a plane and put a receive in it that worked with your radio. Today you can buy planes that are all set to go including servos, and receiver. But you have to have a matching radio in order to fly them. Horizon Hobby has a huge line of BnF, Bind and Fly planes. If you have a Spektrum or JR DSM2 or DSMX radio you can just buy these planes, bind them to your radio and go fly. Hobbico has come out with the transmitter ready, TX-R, planes. In this case they sell an external module, the AnyLink, that will work with many radios. Once you have an AnyLink module can fly any of their TX-R planes.</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">If BnF or TX-R</font> <font color="#191970" face="Verdana">matters to you, then you want a radio that will work with these aircraft. Not everyone cares, but if you do, take this into consideration.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Other Features</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">There are all kinds of special features appearing on radios. Telemetry, touch screens, the ability to update the software over the internet and so on. How important are these? You decide. Talk to those who love them and those who laugh at them, then make your decision.</font></div><div></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">The Best and the Last</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">People ask which is the best radio. There is no best. The best is the one that you can&rsquo;t afford or that will be released 6 months after you buy the one you bought. So don&rsquo;t worry about the best, concern yourself with what will work for you, your budget and your flying style. All of the major brands are good. And there are many &ldquo;off brands&rdquo; that are pretty good as well. </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Some people want to buy the radio that will last them a lifetime. Well, even an entry level computer radio can fulfill that, if your requirements never exceed the capability of the radio. But the fact is that we all get the bug to upgrade. So my suggestion is to look at something you feel will last you 3 to 5 years. Who knows what you will want in a radio 5 years from now. Ten years ago we did not have 2.4 GHz radios or radios that could be upgraded over the internet. So forget the forever radio. In the world of computers and electronics, 5 years is forever. </font></div><div></div><div><font color="#191970" face="Verdana">Now that we have covered the basics it is time for you to ask questions. Read the advertisements, look at the boxes, talk to friends and ask your questions. We are all here to help. </font></div>

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Two main resons to go glow:
1.  Fly, refuel, repeat again and again.  You cannot get too much air time when you are learning and unless you spend a fortune on batteries you can get a lot more flights in one day with glow.
2.  You can HEAR the dead stick.  You know you are in trouble when you can't hear that engine.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

I chose Glow.


However, I trained and soloed on an electric trainer.

Then I went glow 4 stroke and now flying 1/4 scale gassers.
I like the sound of a Real engine (JMO).

Bob

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

Just FYI, you can tell, instantly, if the motor stops. Usually you can hear the prop noise go away and it becomes pretty clear when the motor stops pulling. You really don't need to "hear the motor" even if you are a long way out.

Since you mentioned dead stick, one nice thing with electric is you can stop and restart in the air so you can more easily practice flyingin a glideandpracticetrue dead stick landings without the risk that would come from actually killing the motor in the air and not being able to restart.If you mess up the practice dead stickapproach you don't have to ditch in the weeds/woods/water, you can restart the motor and go around. Much safer!

You can actually do repeated dead stick touch and goes, which canbe fun!http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ades_smile.gif Someelectric pilots land dead stick as a matter of routine. I do.

When I teach new pilots, one of the early lessons is to learn to glide their airplane. Learn not to depend on the motor to fly the plane. Learn to fly on the wing, not on the prop. Lean how to control and recover from a stall with no help from the motor.

Climb and glide. Get it high and power off - completely! Now see how long you can keep it in the air. Get to know your plane's glide character, its glide path and its glide speedso, if you do lose the motor, it is not a panic situation,just a routine matter. Some planes can even be thermaled.

When practicing landings they can land dead stick, power on to land, or they can touch and go. :)

This is also why you see lots of electric launched gliders but you don't see many glow launched gliders anymore. You climb, you soar, and if you want, you can reclimb without landing to refuel or restart. Makes soaring so easy and so much fun. And the quiet motorseems to be more in keeping with the whole soaring experience.

Each power system has its advantages. Knowing when the motor stops is not one of them.

RE: Electric or Glow Trainer
 

If you are teaching yourself to fly, definitely go electric. If you are getting help from an instructor, go with which ever suits your flying situation.<div>
</div><div> I fly both glow and electric planes because each has its benefits. When I'm at the club field, I'm usually flying glow engines and I usually burn at least 4 to 6 tanks of fuel. The same flying time would require 5 or 6 lipo's to be charged and ready. On the same sized planes as my glow engines, those lipo's would cost about $80 per pack . So glow fuel is more economical for me at the field.</div><div> At home, I fly both glow and electric and I use both to teach with. </div><div> I keep an electric T-28 or Super Cub in my trunk most days so I can sneak in a flight or two during my lunch break over a field or abandoned parking lot. No mess or fuss, just pull it out and fly, change battery, fly some more, put back in trunk and charge batteries when I get home.  :D</div>