Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

<div><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(249, 249, 255);">I figure I will try to make a contribution right away on this board. Please keep in mind that I am by no means an expert and I have no credentials that back what I posted below. All I have is some experience being a beginner not that long myself. This is simply offering a straighter path than the one I took.</span></div><div></div><div>This is the plane that I suggest you start off with. It is only $89 for everything you need and it stays fun for a long time. The best part is that you don't need a big area to fly it in and it is very easy to transport: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/champ-rtf-HBZ4900</div><div></div><div>Here is an example of me flying mine in the wind:</div><div>http://youtu.be/pxImfQAhahY</div><div></div><div>There are other trainers out there, but this is the least expensive and best way to learn IMHO due to its price and light weight. Less mass means less destructive damage. It does mean that it will get blown around in the wind more than a larger plane, but no planes should be flown in the wind by a beginner anyhow. I do suggest flying only over grass during your first few flights in a wide open area. The grass is far more forgiving than pavement is when you crash and if the area is wide open, there is no chance to crash into a tree if it gets away from you.</div><div></div><div>Here is the best aileron trainer to learn on IMHO. It is $99 and works with the controller that comes with the trainer plane. It also looks insanely cool in person during low passes. It looks very realistic in the air and is a lot faster than the trainer plane: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...n-bnf-PKZU1580</div><div></div><div>http://youtu.be/-4Vkq_DFwdA</div><div></div><div>Once you have mastered the aileron trainer, flying either one of the next two planes should be well within your grasp(you will need to upgrade your controller to handle the bigger one for sure due to the speed of the plane and limited range of the controller than comes with the trainer plane):</div><div></div><div>http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...at-bnf-PKZ1980</div><div>http://youtu.be/vdfy8hNahFk</div><div></div><div>http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...t-bnf-PKZU1480</div><div>http://youtu.be/y_xCr8yFoU0
http://youtu.be/7xL-m5OFtJU</div><div></div><div>***Note: The single most important thing to keep in mind is to never try to fly more plane than you are ready for. Crashing can be discouraging and expensive. You can also hurt people if you aren't careful.***</div><div></div><div>Once you have mastered those planes, you can fly just about anything like an EDF jet or a Mini Stryker:</div><div></div><div>I bought this jet as my second plane and it ended with a very smashed up jet and ego after I crashed on its very first flight! I was also lucky I didn't hurt anybody:</div><div></div><div>If you look closely, the front nose cone is all smashed to heck from its first flight lol</div><div>http://youtu.be/c0UQ5gaKKuQ</div><div></div><div>This is my newest plane and I love how fast and responsive it is:</div><div>http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...0-bnf-PKZU2280</div><div>http://youtu.be/g8OIVazSg60</div><div></div><div>I think this is enough information to get the conversation started in this thread. Feel free to ask any RC related questions you have. I love this hobby and am happy to help out you guys just starting out any way I can.</div><div></div><div>Also, others should feel free to contribute what they have learned to the beginners in this thread. I certainly don't know it all and can probably benefit from your input as well as the beginners.</div><div></div><div>Happy flying! :D</div>

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I gotta disagree. Now IMHO it is better to learn on 4 channels with an instructor at a field with a buddy box. Less chance of anyone getting hurt including bystanders.
The rest of this post I am gonna let go.
I'll say this though find an instructor and learn from him

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I absolutely agree if you have an instructor and there is an option to buddy box. A lot of people venture into this as a solo endeavor, so that is who my post is targeted at.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread! :D

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

No disrespect meant with this post and your intent to assist is greatly respected. We need folks willing to help others more than ever in our hobby. I am simply with jetmech on this one though. I am moving into my fourth year flying now and when I look back at how I learned I will admit the absolute worse thing I did was learn on a plane with limited channels and control. For me it was a big mistake.

The only great side I see is the price. I think the best advise I have seen is to get with a club and instructor and train on a airframe that is much like you will be flying. Because I chose a somewhat similar type of plane, I had to "learn twice" in a manner of thinking. It was very difficult and cost me a lot of extra time.

Certainly this won't be the same for everyone and maybe for some in limited space will do well with the limited type trainer. However what I have seen in teaching newbies is that once they learn on the right type of planes they save dollars and learn stronger fundamentals and overall seem to enjoy it more.

This is just 2 cents from my side of the fence ;)

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

The hardest student I taught was a glider pilot he had to unlearn what he had done for years.....relearned with throttle and ailerons.
Learn to fly with at least 4 channels...you will learn that ailerons are your friend and throttle does alot more than make the airplane go faster

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I instruct at our club and gotta agree to disagree also. I usually recommend the Apprentice 15e, Alpha 450, for electric. Then Alpha 40 or Hobbico 60 for glow. Those are my favorites. I'll teach on whatever they have, but once they get a demo flight on one of the club trainers, they're ready to learn on a real trainer. Much more stable.
Edwin

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I'm with the guys who have experience, who all seem to disagree with the OP. Like most newbies, the OP's suggestions are based on what's cheapest and easiest, not what works the best. The Champ is fine if you want a toy to fly on very calm days, but not much else. All those other ultra micro planes are harder to fly than their bigger counterparts. If you add up what a guy will spend on all those planes recommended, he could have had a larger trainer and then a bigger electric or small glow sport plane to really build the skills. Once the OP has some experience in the hobby (more than 4 months anyway) he'll agree on the beaten path too. Either that or he'll have moved on to something else because his way is too expensive and too hard.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I've been an instructor for years, and I encourage people to learn on a buddy box with a conventional trainer (I use mostly an LT-40). But I know a lot of people who have taught themselves to fly, sometimes on glow planes (Kadet Senior, especially) and sometimes on small electrics. It can be done, and people who for whatever reason want to learn that way ought not to be discouraged too much. To be sure, somebody with a .40 sized warbird who thinks he can fly it because he does OK on a simulator is probably in for a disappointment. But the danger to bystanders or to your bank account with a plane like the one the OP recommends is very slight. We don't all have to want to do things the same way.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

My son and grandson learned to fly by themselves with the Hobby Zone Cub, it's a much better trainer then these but it's still a toy. When I took them up using a real trainer it was a completely different experience for them and neither of them was up to it. For those that plan on sticking with toy airplanes these are fine but way too basic to move forward in the hobby. I get a kick out of flying them myself at the end of the day but would never recommend anyone wanting to learn to fly starting out with one of these fun little toys. Phoning a club and locating an instructor that has all the equipment to teach is a much better idea if the student pilot wants to learn and move onto bigger and better planes. When I teach a new pilot all I require is they buy there own fuel and ask them not to buy any type of equipment until they have soloed. No reason to have anyone spend there money on anything until they know if they want to stay in the hobby. Once they know how to fly then these toys can be a lot of fun, until then I would discourage them from buying one. There are much better planes on the market in the small electric class then the little foam planes for pilots that have soloed.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

What Graybeard said is why I have developed a slightly un-orthodox approach to teaching. The first buddy box flight most new students get from me is usually on my Avistar. But the first plane that I teach them to take off and land with is usually the Hobbyzone Super Cub. There is some mental trick that happens here. I've found that if they get some stick time on the faster and more responsive Avistar first, their brains and thumbs re-adjust to the slower Super Cub quicker than if I just start them out on the Cub only. I very often recommend students buy the Hz Super Cub as thier first plane, but a lot of that depends on my assesment of thier enthusiasm and committment. If I know a student is going to try fly with or without an instructor present, I steer them towards the HZ cub.
I have had a few students who I knew were seriously enthusiastic, were listening to my advice, and would get support from others besides myself. These students I steer directly to an Avistar, Alpha 40, etc. instead of the Super Cub.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

Jerry, what a dirty trick, but I like it!!!:D After the solo I just let the student use my TX and trainer to use to get more stick time before they start asking about getting there own plane. So far only one trainer has been lost in a crash and it was my fault. The student had soloed but he really wasn't ready to be turned loose yet. My bad. I have never mentioned an electric when being asked about the different choices but from now on I will show them a few of the good ones. None of them will be a foamy though and none will be a toy plane. I have seen a few of the electric sticks that I think would be a good choice, all of them a standard 40 size with ailerons like the trainer they learned on, just a different power source. If they want a small electric then it's fine with me, I enjoy flying them too.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

Like many of you I have helped many people. Most all of us agree on aircraft and methods. The last person I finished up with is 68. Kind of old to be learning. We can all agree not all 68 year olds are created equal. Not all students are created equal. We that are called instructors are a completely different breed. The student? Each is different and that is how I approach teaching. The last student may not be near the same as the new student. That is why I enjoy the beginners section of RCU. I get to learn how you folks go about the art of teaching. Never gave much thought to the small park flyer thing. I can see a advantage to it in some students. Some do well coming off the flight simulator. Others not so good. I try my best to fit the teaching to the student. Keep the good ideas coming. You are a great bunch giving up your time to teach folks this great hobby. Many of you strike me as people that get a charge out of seeing a student become a good pilot. In some cases a great pilot. Thank you all for the things you do.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

You are exactly right Koastrc. Every student is different and the difference between a good instructor and an "ok" one is the ability to recognize different learning styles and use different methods for each one. Some times no matter what you do, there are people you are just not going to be effective with. I've had a couple youngsters who seriously did not know left from right. I'm talking about 12 -15 year olds who could not push the stick left or right even after repeated verbal correction. What do you do with a person who does not know left from right and therefore can not follow basic instructions while on a buddy box? I'm not the right instructor for that type of person, so I just do my best to help them have a positive experience regardless of performance and, if their enthusiasm remains, try to steer them towards a simulator.

There do appear to be some commonalities though, most of the people I've taught, including myself, start out with many of these flaws in common:

They will almost always over bank and/or induce a stall immediatley until they learn gentle stick control. Expo can help with this, but can also create bad habbits. Simulators are great for this.
They like to make left turns as opposed to right turns, so making figure 8's is a must.
They want to stay down low as opposed to getting to a safe altitude.
They let the plane get too far away and lose orientation.
They let the plane get too close and try to fly directly overhead, which also causes loss of orientation.
They think their depth perception is better than it is and will fly directly into the top of that oak tree if you let them.
They want to take off full throttle, lift off asap, and climb steeply.
They will make the entire flight at full throttle if you don't make them slow down.
They will land the plane right into themselves if you don't teach them how to set up a proper final approach.
They will fly their current plane better after you buddy box them on a faster and more responsive craft that is a little above their current skill level.

These are just a few of my obsevations, I would love to hear some of you other fellas' experiences!
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I teach to a program.

Straight and level, I do the turns.
Flying the pattern, they do the turns.
Figure 8's, we loose a lot of them there. But they eventually get it.
Simulated landing approaches, 20' over the runway. This is to teach them how to line up with the runway. Lower and lower until they land.
And taxi runs for take off. They usually pick this up pretty quick.
Solo is usually about 30 to 50 flights. I make them practice a LOT.

After solo, the glow guys get adverse condition training. I take them up high, roll inverted into a spin and shut the engine off, then give them control. Some have to do it 2 or 3 times before they quit freezing and panicking. They dont know its coming the first time I do it. The electric guys cheat and just power up.:)
Edwin

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

Thanks for all of your posts guys! This will certainly benefit those starting out with some perspective on a variety of approaches.

Tell me what makes you think I only have four months of experience in this hobby? Some of the videos I posted were of me flying ultra micro planes that are as you said "more difficult to fly than their bigger counterparts".

And even though I respect and appreciate all of your responses, I still believe in the path that I layed out above for many of those new to RC planes. If you can master a Champ and then a four-channel Ultra Micro T-28, then you are golden. I wouldn't have done it any other way. It wouldn't have been fun learning from someone telling me what to do at every turn. Learning things on your own is one of the fun and exciting things about this hobby.

GB
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

For people who's closest club field is over an hour away, I can see learning on the Champ, Super Cub and I recommend the full size Parkzone T-28. All of these models together equals one larger model, but it also gives these guys that have no instructors a chance to progress in a way that they will have all their airplanes after learning to fly.

After a person can take off, fly figure 8s at a constant altitude and land both directions, I always recommend someone go to a club event to fly with others, watch others, and VERIFY what they have learned is a safe and productive flying style. There are often fun fly events at local clubs and they can be looked up quite easily these days online.

If a person flies in a public park or soccer complex it is EXTREMELY important that they are extra careful to avoid people, as these places often have a lot of activity and most spectators don't stay a safe distance away. Also, a small three pound plane can still do a lot of damage, especially if it hits someone in the head.

Throttle management is the one thing I see people struggling with...even those that learned on a buddy box with an instructor. Under powered glow trainers are more forgiving when the pilot takes off and leaves the left stick full forward until landing.

Speaking of the left stick...rudder training is a MUST. People need to learn how to keep a plane going down the centerline of their runway surface (gym floor, soccer field or club runway) to avoid taking off into people or in any direction not intended. There are other uses for the rudder, but if we could start here, runway centerline control, we'd make a lot of progress.

Regardless of the aircraft, I teach a syllabus that only focuses on basic building blocks for a good take-off, pattern and landing, from BOTH directions....that's it.

Straight and level flight, small corrections
Figure 8s, simulates each side of the traffic pattern when the plane is turning toward the runway from the back side of the eight.
Square patterns in the sky, constant altitude.
Bring the pattern segment that is over the runway lower and lower until doing low passes. Teaches approach and go around techniques from BOTH directions.
Square pattern approach to go around after reaching ground effect (one wingspan above the ground) where they learn to throttle up, fly level to gain speed, then execute an on centerline climb out before a gradual climbing turn to crosswind.

At this point have the student do a loop once in a while to practice throttle control. Power up, pull...on the back side of the loop have them bring the throttle to idle, then back to half when level again.

Next is rudder control exercises. Being able to drive the plane from one end of the runway to the other, from the pilot's station, on centerline at a slow speed is a good way to start. The student should be able to drive the plane down the runway centerline, slow by coasting at idle and wagging the rudder if necessary, then turn around and taxi back to the other end of the runway without deviating from the centerline more than two or three feet maximum.

Takeoffs are next. Taxi faster down the center line, smooth throttle push to 3/4 power, then gradual climb out into the pattern, just like they practiced before on the "go around" training.

Landings. At this point they can be crosswind landings or calm wind landings, use what you've got.
Practice each maneuver on the simulator before the real thing and between training sessions...go to the local hobby shop, use the sim for free if necessary.

This usually takes a minimum of eight training sessions for a person that has never flown before. If the student is using the simulator between sessions and at the field once or twice a week, maximum. This stuff takes time to sink in...rushing it faster than eight sessions and 30 total days to solo is usually a bad idea for most students.

Full scale pilots tend to take slightly longer to train.

I've trained people that taught themselves and just wanted to get more precise and confident with their flying on a larger model...took about eight training sessions, but sim time was not required.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

You list some great discussion points.

Figure eights is something that helped me, however I chose to do them on my own and was not actually instructed so much to do them. It may have been mentioned, but that was about it. It is hard to blame my instructors for my weak areas because it was hard to even get anyone to help me.

I realize folks have lives and teaching someone to fly can take time and no one really trains the instructors on good techniques. So you learn what you learn. I am grateful for the instruction I had, yet it took many hours of research, practice, and observation of other flyers to figure things out and learn solid flying and I still have a long ways to go. Many of my issues could have been avoided had I been told certain things.

I find that some of the points you made are simply missing today from instruction by numerous instructors at most fields you go to, whether it be because of time pressure, scheduling, instructor not really interested in teaching, etc. You can tell as you watch the folks fly and it reflects in damaged aircraft, lost enjoyment, and so on. I have counted many planes that could have been saved if only a decent landing approach was maintained. This is discouraging if you ask me.

I am astounded at the folks that have been flying for years and years that cannot make a right hand approach to landing, or at least don't chose to because it is more difficult for them. Rudder control seems a lost art in many cases. I do find that the more experienced have decent skills with rudder, not necesarrily over the top, but decent.

I don't think a lot of instructors enforce the level of practice needed per student to refine some of these skill sets. Most of the time as soon as the student solos, it is "see ya, you got it now" and that is that. I was glad to read your regiment as it appears that you would have a very good foundation for your RC pilots to grow from.

Hopefully more will see the importance of a good foundation. If nothing else, you may have saved a plane, which saves financially, or saved from a bad accident in the future which may save both financially and potentially bodily harm depending on the situation.

Another thought to consider is how many instructors realize that most of their students will reflect their instruction? Granted this don't hold true for all students, however a higher percentage falls into this catagory. That alone should make us think about it more and have strong instruction plan in place.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

Luchnia,
You hit the nail on the head for me. I teach because I couldnt find anyone willing to train me (20 years ago). I taught myself at great expense and time. After two years I finally ran into a guy that buddy boxed me and in two flights he corrected a lot of the bad habits I taught myself. I teach or help anyone because I almost gave up. I wouldnt want to see that happen to others.
Edwin

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I'd call myself an advanced beginner, taught myself to fly. Not a route I'd recommend to anybody. Get an instructor and save yourself the money on broken parts and frustration.
I would have been miles ahead if an experienced flier at least had mine up and told me I had some trim issues, I didn't know, plane was set up as per the manual as I understood it.

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

Been instructing for a long time and could'nt agree more. Get an instructor!!!!

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I have been instructing for a long time. I agree with most of the replys saying "Get an instructor".

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

GB you really think learning on your own is best.....I know you don't but it sounds that way.
The best way to learn is to get an instructor. Learn the way you intend to fly. Not only will an instructor teach you to fly but he will teach you safety field ettiquite how to tune your engine

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

Alot of people learned on three channels ;)

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I agree with jetmat. But being in the world of ARF'S, everyone is leaving out in my opinion the most important part of this "Hobby", and that is building. This is the most important part of learning what and how your plane functions. Learn to build A trainer with the help of an experienced builder, and learn to fly on A buddy box with an experienced flyer, and you will gain the most satisfaction out of your accomplishments. JMPUPS

RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
 

I also teach building to any student that would like to learn. So far since I moved to Vegas I have only had two students want to learn how to build. One was 12 and one was 70. What I no longer do is teach anyone that isn't old enough to drive and has there own car. When I have taught kids I turned into there weekend bus driver and with all there gear and my own I couldn't bring out what I would have liked to due to room in my van. I have found that young people learn to fly in days and older people take weeks, sometimes months to learn. I'm OK with that as long as they take the time to keep learning. I do have a couple of old students that may only fly once every few months and get upset because they don't get any better at it. When they do come to the field they may only get in one flight and BS with the other guys, that's OK too but then I don't want to hear them complain about not improving.
My grandson was 4 when I had him on the box, he is one that doesn't want you to help him, he likes to figure it out by himself, at least he did the turns and things I told him to do, you just better not try to reach over and touch his TX!!:eek: He is 6 now and pretty good on the controls but is still only flying three channel. His next trip here I will have him on the box with a 4 channel plane again, I even like to let people buddy box with my Hots. No one else flies it by themselves but I do let people give it a try as long as I can take it away from them if needed. I loan all my new students my SIM too so they can practice what they did on the trainer.