A Long Time Coming
 

Free at last, Free at last First freedom from the frequency board and now freedom from the buddy cord! That is from a simple instructors point of view.

This most definately has been a long time coming an sorely needed. OK first the disclaimer I choose to post about this in the beginners forum as this is a most important device to both the beginner and the student instead of the radio forum where in the last two years I posted hoping aginst hope that Hitec would provide one of these devices but alas nothing and considerable disinterest and even some contempt for even requesting such a thing from forum regulars.

I also am not an electronics enthusiast or hobbiest of any sort beyond just whats neccessary to know using much of the modern equipment avialible to us now. The fact that I am not has been what has held up this project for almost two years but I was able to convince some folks who are to help bring this to fruition.

This device is called a Cordless Buddy System that Futaba came out with almost two years ago. I take most of the Hitec students and one of the other instructors takes most of the Futaba students and he purchased the system when it first came out (hundred bucks and change) and it has proven fantastic. There is a most noticible and positve effect on the students. I have used his system also and find it so liberating and that has an amazing effect on the students. For two years now my Hitec students have been asking for this when they see it but of course no interest from hitec.

Well those folks who are the electronic types that I am indebted to came up with a 2.4 itty bitty five channel Rx that we attached to the back of one of my Aurora 9 and by using a patch cord that plugs into the A9's trainer plug, now this Rx is bound to the student radio. In the case of the Futaba system it is powered up through the buddy cord but that is not possible with the Hitec system and it had to powered externally. At first we attempted to power it with a patch cord to the plug in back of the A9 that normally powers up the Hitec Voice. This did work intermintantly but only just. So I went to a small 270mah Nicd that will go for many days just powering that little Rx.

The Maxima Rx is one of those sold from the Hong Kong suppliers and cost nine bucks but cost is not what this journey has been about but all about just having this cordless system to use with the Hitecs is 'Priceless'.

So anyway here it is and I used it yesterday for the first time who happened to be a lady student and had just recently started. The system worked flawlessly and at times I was as far as thirty feet away. The possibilitys are endless and don't poo, poo this if you are an instructor and never tried it, You will be amazed and I think the training times of your students will be vastly improved of that I am certain.

Yes I feel Hitec has dropped the ball and screwed the pooch on this one, pics up shortly.

John

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

I've only used the Futaba system but I really liked it. It took some getting used to binding and all but it is neat. I just wish my guys had better ( more bells etc. ) tx's. I have a feeling that after a few more people use the Futaba system that others will follow. Right now it's getting so you need 20 buddy cords to do the job . lol ENJOY !!! RED

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Hi JohnBuckner
I too only use Futaba. Which model radio has this feature? You say the feature costs $100 extra? Please explain what is involved. I have gotten to the point where I do not care to read long explanations. Getting old.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

I've used these:

[link=http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__30896__Wireless_Buddy_Box_System_8CH_Dual_RX_Con troller_US_Warehouse_.html]8 channel Buddy system[/link]

They are receiver agnostic so you can hook up a JR RX and a Futaba RX and use corresponding TX's for masters and slaves.

The only downside is that you have to trim out both the master and slave and of course mixes are handled by each TX.

e.g. You cannot use JR/Spektrum's "Pilot Link" that lets the master's trims apply to the slave.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Just an FYI.  The new Tactic transmitters from Hobbico all have the wireless trainer system built into them.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Smart move on Hobbico's part IMHO...

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

It good to see the interest and support of my peers here. Had the system out agine this morning (with the Hitecs) and agine it was flawless with a different student. Which I knew would be after these many many months of waiting and Watching my bud (fellow instructor
as well as his students) enjoy the benefits.

OK all my effort has been to how this system could be adapted to Hitec systems so my knowledge of the original Futaba system is not perfect but here goes as I believe: First Yes Chucksolo The Tactic system is capable but it is not the same as the orginal futaba setup and the one I have borrowed and used, The hardware may be different.

The original set up is compatable down to at least the 7C 2.4 versions and may go down to the 6EX 2-4 . I will be able to confirm that soon anyway as I obtained a 6EX to experiment with as I want to be capable with the Futabas also and have three more small Rx's coming to experiment also with crossing futaba and Hitec student boxes.

Oppose yes there are eight channel versions of these itty bittys that should work as well and two the ones I have on the way are that one. As far as doing the same for Spectrum or JR I have no interest only Hitec/futaba so will leave that to others.

I am convinced this will be almost as close to the original impact on flight training as the introduction of the first buddy cords;)

John

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

We had a situation two weeks ago where a buddy cord was pulled out of one of the transmitters while a student & pilot was flying.

This shorted the TX and caused it to stop transmitting! The plane went into failsafe with a slight nose down attitude at the time.

Fortunately instructor had the presence of mind to turn off his transmitter and turn it on again a few feet before the brand new giant club trainer went into the trees.

Wireless buddy boxes are the way to go.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

+1 yup, they sure do!
watch for the upcoming review on RCU :)

John, I have a funny feeling the other radio manufacturers are going to 'see the light'
I'm 100% with you, this is (NEXT to 2.4ghz) the best idea since the wired buddy box.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Hmm Jose's point about one of the conventional buddy cords being removed causing a problem caused a few second thoughts since I have always been in the habit of never informing the student when he was about to solo either full scale or RC. This has always seemed to work out better and sometimes the dramatic effect of pulling the plug even while taxi' out. This has not been a problem with the either the Hitec low or high voltage transmitters (totally different cords) but as a double check I just took a break from work on the 'Catalina Kadet' and fired up the training Kadet with the two A9's and pulled the masters plug for the wireless setup with every possible combination and am releaved to see the master maintains full control and no funny stuff:D

Jim just noticed you are a moderator now, not sure if that is new but welcome aboard with your most difficult volunteer position[8D]


John

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

We were unable to reproduce it later, but we had the same thing occur a year before.

At that time we lost the plane.

The TX appeared to be working, but the plane was not responding to stick movements... all of this caused by the pulled plug while the trainer was active.

The wireless devices do away with pulling out cords accidentally.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

What are the benefits you've seen John? You mention being able to stand 30 feet away from your student, but why would you want to do that?

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

I agree here too. While I think that the wireless is "neat" I personally don't see the benefit of having it. I like having the wire between the two radios. Long story short, I once had a student and the buddy box I was using had a pretty long cord on it. I noticed that while we were flying the student kept moving away until he was at the end of the cord, and it honestly made things a little difficult to hear as I was talking with him. Now when a student is progressing in their training and you are not taking the plane away from them that much this won't be a big issue because the student doesn't need as much attention and you can look at them to talk to them. But, in the beginning of training you will need to keep your attention on the student and not be able to look away from the plane.

As I said, I have nothing against the wireless setups. But I wouldn't pay any extra to get one. If the radios you are buying have them on them, so be it. But if not the old wire works just as well!!!! ;)

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now!!!! ;) :D

Ken
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RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Hi JohnBuckner
Since I did not get an answer to my post #3, I'll try again. I notice that others have asked what is the advantage of going wireless. I too ask that. The only advantage I see is that a trainer cord is not needed. I like that, since there are now many different styles needed and having the right one always is a problem. I learned without a trainer chord and later taught flying without a trainer chord. Having to rip the radio out of a panicked student's hands to save his plane is not a pleasant memory. I don't see how I ever did it, but I did.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

noticed the hitech is for park-fliers, not full range. jury's still out on this

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

$100 solution for a $1 problem... big waste of money.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

That is absolutely correct and what you do not understand is the fact that the Rx you are looking at is bound to the buddy box it only Receives information the buddy box transmits and it feeds this info through the master transmitters buddy cord imput (look agine at the photos). The master transmitter is bound to the airplane and only the airplane as always and has the same range as always.

The only range limitation concerning the buddy system is the distance you can be between the boxes. Now my fellow instructor tested this out with the Futaba commercial system (remember I think the Attack system is limited to Attack units, the futaba system is capable on a number of standard Futaba units) and we found the Futaba unit would reach its limit around a hundred feet. At which time The buddy box failed to respond and of course the master was still in full control of the airplane.

I have not tested the full 'Box Range' of my unit yet but Jester that thirty feet I mentioned earlier was a partial test and why I mentioned this.

So The Futaba unit has been out two years or so and I as well as other here have been watching this very closely so RPM there is no Jury still out on this. The system works and works very reliably.

The Hitec setup I have come up with is not a Hitec product but it works exactly like the Futaba unit and the only differance is the need to power it differently since the the Hitec cord has no power abvalible through the cord like Futaba does.


Now Villa I am sorry if my communication skills fail me and I have attempted to answer your question but what one must remember is the answer is not a simple and obvious one it involves subtle effects on the student and how when an instructor can use simple body english and step out of the students personal space (the grocery store check out line syndrome). I am not going to go on about that other than to say without giving it an honest try then perhaps you will never understand.

Costs? This setup has cost me a cut up Hitec standard cord, a nine dollar Rx, a new but left over 270mah Nich (think I buught a bunch on sellout a while back at 6 bucks) and some solder however if it would have been avalible two years ago commercially for Hitec I would have gladly paid the price of a Futaba unit a hundred bucks or so.

Now Villa I too am no newbie and I too went through the Rc march of technology with my first successful RC flight in 1958 or so and I never stopped. I would like to ask you to think back now how you reacted when the first buddy box system became availble. I am willing to bet that you like I groused about it big time an swore that we would stick to 'Snatch the Box'. I bet you freely use the buddy cord now for your students don,t ya?

John

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

I have been using the Futaba version on my 6EX for about a year now. Works fine.

Ken

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Thank you Ken. That confirms the Futaba system does work with the 6EX 2.4. Around here all the Futaba Tx's they have been used with are mostly 7C's, 9C and a 12FG. So will go ahead and make up one with one of the additional little Rx's for a 6EX I acquired for the purpose so I will be able to handle some Futaba students.[8D]

John

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Yup... that has happened to me with the Spektrum system... lost the student connection.. so I released the switch until student could hook up again. Student flying again, no drama, nothing.

Waste of money... student has to find an instructor with the same system or buy two boxes and equip them so student can fly. Something more expensive to buy that you will use for 3 months. Something else to go wrong.

Or you can buy a mono audio wire at radio shack for $6 and use it with a lot of different instructors... (spektrum/Jr/Futaba/hitek) No I will not be jumping on this train.

Sorry Buckner... I don't get it, and don't see any psychological advantage. If the student knows you are over watching, they know, does not change a thing. I start with buddy box and transition to sharing the box in a hand off arrangement, then turn them loose.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Hi JohnBuckner
I only use the trainer chord. I would never use the "snatch the box" method again. Actually, I no longer teach. At age 77 I noticed I was not paying enough attention to the student. We have other teachers.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Villa has indirectly made a point. John, those who do not teach others very often will not understand the benefit of your wireless set up. I do, and I plan to get one or make one myself soon.
I'm still flying on 72mhz and most of my students start out using my equipment. I mainly use a T6XA and a T6XHs as my master and Skysport 4F for my buddy boxes. I'm going to have to check see if Futaba makes a wireless set up for 72mhz, if not, I may have to get a 2.4 system just for this purpose.

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

ok my bad, I thought it was like another system our club was looking at, but the 2 receivers are located in the plane and connected together

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

My Brother and I have been using the Futaba wireless system since it first came out. We feel it is much safer than the cord. With the cord you or your student can trip on it, step on it, etc. causing all kinds of problems. I still use the cord when my brother is using the wireless and it seems cumbersome. If you have not tried it do not knock it.

Bruce

RE: A Long Time Coming
 

Hey John, my flight instructor did that to me. told me to start the plane and taxi out to the runway and he would be out. The he called on the radio "can't go. fly it by your self"
who me, Now, can I come back, you mean right now. I feel sick, my pants are wet. I do miss thou's days. Dennis