RE: Improving stability
 

Hey speedracerntrixie,

I think what you are addressing are the results of stability rather than simply proper trim! I also think you are blending the two terms...

Kurt

RE: Improving stability
 

I don't mean to offend anyone....wasnt in reply to anyone....what i said was pretty simple....if you use a gyro in a contest then I hope you get caught....simple....if you use a gyro to learn to fly well you're not doing yourself any favors learn to fly with your fingers in the long you'll be a better pilot for it. Lastly If you have lost a step due to age or health then by all means use one.....no one said anything about cheating..that word is not in my reply anywhere.....
I guess if you had some radical airplane where it just was impossible to fly without a gyro then use it...
Like I said wasn't trying to rain on anyones parade

RE: Improving stability
 

Jet, no offence here. And my responses were not directed to any one in particular. But more in general to the fact that it is a personal choice. And it's not right for others to attack that choice. A good example is something mentioned earlier and that would be Helis. Why is it ok for helis and not for planes. They did not have gyros when they first came into play. Gyros did not have heading hold when they first came into play. But it's ok to use them now, why?  Because the pilots need some form of flight assistance right or is it because flying a heli is just to difficult without it. Hmmmmmmmmmm!! Me think's it to be the latter!

RE: Improving stability
 

One final note. Go to the Jet section and in the search window type in "Eagle Tree Guardian". For those that spend many thousands on there airplane, there seems to be a different attitude toward flight assist.

RE: Improving stability
 

Futaba has them for dual servos now, but you need S-Bus to run them :)

RE: Improving stability
 

Right On. I did have the other side but in the past few years I find myself feeling the same way. I like to build but do very little. Most of the time is spent keeping a few ARFs in flying condition.

Now what will happene when everything we have will be built/mfged/ etc from the new material "GRAPHENE"? This new miracle baby that is forecast to overcome all other metals and plastics. Electrical devices almost no heat. Stronger, much lighter, harder, more flexible than steel. Strong production with razor thickness.
Just got a 16 pamphlet concerning the future of this new material. 1-800-682-7793. BTW I have NOT called the # yet. :eek:

Anyway, models of a 100" span may well be less than 3 pounds, ready to fly.

RE: Improving stability
 

If one wishes to demonstrate his "macho factor" it would seem that other activities such as rodeo or cage fighting might be better suited.

Mandating what devices one may use in pursuing enjoyment of one's hobby would seem to be restricting liberty. Defending liberty OTOH, would seem to be a macho activity.

Jessy

RE: Improving stability
 

Wow Not only a direct attack and threat it is also most certainly an outright implication of 'Cheating', That you also chose to post immediately after my post #6. You also knew It would show up "In reply to John Buckner. It is also obvious that you did not even bother to read my post and if so you would have known about the last paragraph and reaiized we actually do agree that SAS use in primary training is a bad idea!

In addition if you would have read my post you might have realized that I was not talking about Any form of competition but a simple four engine Senior Kadet that most certainly could and has been helped for 12 years now by a simple single axis gyro. And another special purpose kind of airplane that I mentioned agine not a contest but and airplane that I can assure you will use one of the SAS systems,
I posted photos of (most likely will be the Eagle Tree) for my next long trip.

I further was encouraged in the thread yesterday when I got home from the field I had four PM's, all fellows who apparently well experienced pilots although not a one of them a Contest Flyer who were hungry for futher info and terrified to post on this thread. All were about the few special purposes that SAS in fixed wing is most certainly a legitimate use.

Note to the hard pressed moderators. Yes I felt a need to defend myself aginst attacks such as this and now I promise I will drop out of this thread. Life is actually getting to short to waste in defending oneself from attacks by those fueled with the 'Macho Factor'.

RE: Improving stability
 

I selling off all my giant stuff and sticking to flying foamies now. Trouble is they flit and flirt and are too unstable for my aging reflexes. I've already crashed one that got away from me. What stabilizer would be better: the BL-3GRC, or the Eagle Tree Guardian? They're both about the same price on Amazon.

RE: Improving stability
 

I'm curious about your experience with the "orange" gyro.

So far I've found that I cannot use that gyro with Digital Servos AT ALL.

The Gyro "pulses" the servos twice a second, and this pulse is fairly strong deflecting the surfaces so much that the gyro is worthless.

I have not tried it on analog servos yet.

RE: Improving stability
 

I would go with the Guardian. Put it on a switch and run it in 3D mode in general. If you get into trouble or get disoriented switch to the 2D mode and the plane will return to straight and level flight.

RE: Improving stability
 

This is the problem I've been having. I've got a fire-breathing-monster of a plane that needs to be tamed. When I contemplate flying it I'm reminded of bull riding I see on tv. But with the assistance of a gyro it may be possible to avoid excessive yaw on takeoff and thus tame the fire breathing monster. I'm glad to have the help....I ordered a Futaba GYA430 and will install it on the rudder servo.

RE: Improving stability
 

If using a gyro is cheating, surely an airplane not built by the contestant should be declaimed illegal, immoral, and unmanly!:)

Jess

RE: Improving stability
 

LOL! I thought that was all planes olive Drab. At least that's how mine look on take off. Oh God what I'd give to be a world class pilot. Oh! Wait! With flight assist I am, and loving it.

RE: Improving stability
 

Ok for the last time I was not in reply to anyone period. If you're offended sorry
Now since I said if you use a gyro in competition I hope you get caught look at AMA Compettion regs Scale Areobatics rule 4.3 it forbids gyros.
if you're flying for yourself use a gyro if you must.....if you're learning to fly I sugguest you learn to fly with your thumbs.
so thats it in a nut shell.
again not trying to rain on anyones parade

RE: Improving stability
 

I have been a vocal opponent to gyros for a learning tool or a crutch. Until Igot a little 14.7" UMX Beast 3D AS3X biplane. This has three-axisgyros that prevent the wind from buffeting this tiny 2 oz model and allow it to fly incredibly well outdoors and in good breezes (about up to 10mph or so). The gyros won't regain level flight if you release the sticks, but instead they keep the model flying on track until additional stick input comes along. They certainly DONOTturn the Beast into a trainer.

Ialso fly gas and glow. This ridiculous little foamy flies as smoothly as a .60 size glow and is a LOTmore maneuverable than most sport models. It flies a LOTbetter than my Seagull .46 Ultimate biplane. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../red_smile.gif At least under my thumbs.

RE: Improving stability
 

Charlie,

+1. Your first hand account is what we need more of! As you described, they add STABILITY. Kind of like a well designed vertical STABILIZER and horizontal STABILIZER. I think many don't understand stability and take it for granted, thanks to stable designs. Charlie hit it right on the head.

Kurt

RE: Improving stability
 

Thanks. I ordered one today.

RE: Improving stability
 

Here is a good thread with a lot of good information on the Guardian 2D/3D:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1596644

Bruce

RE: Improving stability
 

One interesting fact. The F-16 and other A/C(full scale) are totally unstable. The computer provides three axis stabilization. The pilot just tells the computer to do what he wants with the A/C.
I wonder if we could make a model that is very unstable and add one of them. It would make it flyable and much more maneuverable. Just move your cg back three inches
The orange units from hobbyking do not have the hands off capability that the Guardian does. They are very sensitive to gain adjustment also. I have two and two of the Guardian.
They all are very sensitive to vibration. I am trying to get a Guardian to work with a Gasoline powered A/C. I have been successful with getting it to work onthe ground but have not tried it in the air. They work well with electric power but will greatly increase the power load on your flight battery. The servos are moving all the time

RE: Improving stability
 

dirtybird have you tried a soft mount.

RE: Improving stability
 

I have the motor mounted on a Hyde soft mount witch is in turn mounted on a platform that is isolated from the airframe with large rubber grommets I still had to isolated the Guardian with 1/2 foam rubber to get it to work at high rpm.

RE: Improving stability
 

I went with the Guardian myself, and man is it fun. I bought it to tame my Stearman down on the takeoff roll, but decided to try it out in my foami first.
It's about a pound and an half and really bounces around in the wind. I put the guardian in, flipped the switch and it was like the wind stopped. I was amazed at how well it works. I just ordered another from Tower Hobbies because now I'm having so much fun with it in the foam airplane, I don't want to take it out.

The nice thing about the guardian is that it is not gyro based. It works off an accelerometer and it has tons of settings if you want to get into really fine tuning it with your computer. You don't need to do anything with the computer at all though if you don't have one or don't want to. You can program settings through your transmitter. It's very simple to use right out of the box though. You plug the aileron, rudder and elevator servo leads into the guardian. Plug the leads out of the guardian into the receiver. Mount the unit so it doesn't move and your pretty much ready to go. You just have to check direction on control movements to make sure they are correct and turn the gain up on the unit. I found the hard part, to be mapping the Aux and gear channel from the receiver to a three way switch and slider on the transmitter. Not that it's hard, but I'm kind of a dumb #%$ when it comes to technical stuff. I asked a question on a forum and had my answer.

You can fly your plane around with the unit turned off if you like, flip a switch, and have it on. The switch has what they call a 2D mode and a 3D mode, it helps keep the wings level in 2D and if you get into an unusual attitude, just let go of the sticks and it's flying straight and level again. Personally, I have been flying for years and don't care to use that feature. I don't feel I need it and really don't care much for it. I'm am however amazed with the 3D feature. I like doing rolls, loops and flying 3D which includes the harriers, torque rolls, etc. This is where the guardian really shines in my opinion. Since you can control the gain with the slider, you can turn it down or off and fly around fairly fast doing your loops and stuff. (Having the gain turned up too high and flying fast will result in oscillation if you didn't take the time to dial it in, very easy to do though.) Then slow the airplane up, turn the gain up and bring the plane down doing an elevator, no wing rock at all. Transition right into a harrier and steer it around using only the rudder. (Having heading hold feature on, you can use the rudder all you want and still have the airplane locked into your last attitude, but touch the elevator or ailerons you you unlock all three axis until you center the sticks again, pretty cool.) You can even take your hands off the transmitter. It feels almost like that's cheating though, so I disconnect the heading hold feature using the computer and you still get the benefits of having stability, but you still have to fly the plane. It counteracts all wind and gust trying to throw your airplane around. It makes flying in all wind conditions like there is no wind at all with the plane feeling like it also perfectly setup.

After all, this hobby is all about FUN, and that's what this Guardian does. It lets you have more fun than you have experienced in the past. I feel once everyone checks one out, it's going to turn into the future of RC!

RE: Improving stability
 

Does anyone have the settings for the DX7 and the Eagle Tree Stabilizer? I have it setup partially on the flap switch and can get the Eagle Tree Stabilizer to recognize 2d - off - 3d via the switch. However, there is very little movement of the elevator or rudder even with the stabilizer pots set very high. I am thinking I am missing something on the Transmitter settings. Help.

RE: Improving stability
 

Do you have the gain hooked up to a slider or dial? If so, try moving the gain and that should do the trick, it might be too low right now.