Proposed Fiberglass RC Airplane with a 1.5hp diesel engine.
 

My school proposed as a project to create an RC aeroplane using a Super Tigre GS40 engine that's gathering dust in a corner. The model is based on Tom Hunt's Vertigo from 1994. The wingspan is approx 76 inches and the length 56 inches given our calculations. The engine weighs around 400 grams. We are thinking of using 2 electric motors on the wings that generate each at around 500kvs.

We're unsure of what materials we want to construct it with, we are currently thinking of a fibreglass body with balsa wood reinforcements but we don't know how fast the weight of it can increase. We simulated it in SolidWorks with an all balsa wood construction and it weighed around 1.5kg but we're afraid it might be too fragile. What are the pros and cons of using a fibreglass construction when you factor in our weight and dimensions?

If this is to build a non flying static display model the strength won't matter , and if this IS to be a flying model and you have no expert RC airplane pilot to fly it , it won't matter either .....

Beginners in RC start here for help
 

I love init4fun's response: "If this is to build a non flying static display model the strength won't matter , and if this IS to be a flying model and you have no expert RC airplane pilot to fly it , it won't matter either."
In a way that about sums it up for all R/C model building.

Start with something that has been proven to fly well. A Sig Kadet Senior is a good choice. Then you can move into more experimental designs.

It sounds like a "trial by fire" proposal your school gave you. I'm not getting from your post that you know much if anything about aircraft design, or how to build or fly any particular type of model.

I looked up the Vertigo in a Google search, and found this link... https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...years-later%21

It looks to be a follow up on the original design... It also looks like the gentleman worked for years on it to get it where it's at in the article(which the article in the link is 16yrs old). The model does look to be a somewhat proven design, but also very advanced, in every way. Not only development and construction, but also takes a very knowledgeable experienced pilot, of which even most seasoned modelers wouldn't be able to conquer... at least without a firm commitment and hours/days/weeks/months of study and work. It's a huge undertaking.

I hope you and your school understand what you/they're contemplating is a project that could literally take years, especially if nobody has any modeling experience. If they did, they would know without a doubt what the process of creating such model would entail. How long are you going to be going to that school?... Do you plan to see it through?.. It could take quite a while. Some of use in the real world with alot of experience are known to work for a few years or more on one plane...and that's with planning and experience..Even mainstream kit building takes considerable time.

As for material... Fiberglass will weigh far too much to do the whole frame.. The wings and tail must be light.. as light as humanly possible. With experience though(there's that word again), balsa can be built into some seriously strong structures. There really is no need for fiberglass though.. Its a .40 size engine, with maybe a few electric motors..so it won't have immense power, or much vibration... What you described for power is just something to create thrust..

I suggest further studying the Vertigo, and really looking at how long that process took... and what your resources are (consider everything..equipment, tools, and especially experience).... it's the experience factor that will dictate most everything. Really there's helpful people around these sites... but most of us aren't going to write it all down for you.. and it wouldn't matter if we did...The fact is, it's all already been written, you just have to study and figure out if it's even possible to create something like what you're contemplating. Good luck with it.

To the OP: What grade are you in? And what is the actual situation? Is this going to be for a grade, or is it an enriching project as part of an after school club?
I ask because I'm a middle school engineering teacher. I design problem solving and design projects all year long for kids and teach them the fundamentals so they can be successful. I would never tell a group of high school students to try and design an airplane when they've never flown one. Aeronautics is a complicated science with a lot of variables working at the same time. Even if everyone in your group already knew model building techniques, your chances of producing a successful scratch design would be virtually zero due to all of the interrelated issues to deal with.
If the point is for the group to work together and get something in the air, take the advice above and build one of the classic trainers like the Kadet Sr. and then get a qualified flight instructor at a proper flying facility to train you.

We're aerospace engineers but this is our first big project combining aircraft design, modeling, and construction. The design part of this project has been happening for about a year and we're starting to get into modeling and construction. We feel we need a bit (a lot, actually) of help in this part of the project.

I've attached a render of our proposed design, which has been tested in Solidworks and ANSYS.

We realize we are a bit over our heads because we are in no way experts in any area, I haven't even mentioned we are trying to give this aircraft VTOL capabilities... but I don't even want to get to that part lol.

Anyways thank you for your response, we are currently starting to research more about balsa wood construction.

EDIT: I can't upload any photos until I have 10 posts, kind of a dumb rule tbh.

We're college students studying aerospace engineering, I should've said that in the original post but I wrote it in a hurry.

We have all our calculations that back up our design and our different variables from our motors, I tried attaching a render of our design but I need to have 10 posts before I can do this.

We lack a lot of experience in the modeling and construction phase of this project, we really don't know if we want to use fiberglass or balsa wood. Our original thought was balsa wood would not be sturdy enough for the weight of our aircraft, but reading the replies on this thread has made us research more about balsa wood construction.

And yeah I completely agree with you about us having zero experience flying model planes...

There's only one way to get experience, and reading about it won't get you there. As suggested, get a simpler model that's a proven design, and learn. There' so much you can learn by just building a trainer style model with about a .60" wing span... and your engine would even work in that.

What we're trying to tell you comes from experience. You're talking to experience right here in this thread. You can continue to ponder all of it, and keep trying to decide what kind of material to use, etc.. etc.. but when you actually build a model and fly it, therein lies some experience, and grow from that. Burt Ratan started with simple small designs of everything, even paper airplanes, then developed it from there.

If as you say you lack alot of experience is modeling and construction, buy a Sig Kadet and build that kit step by step, per instructions exactly and read every word... that's where you will read and learn and apply. Those types of kits all have great techniques and ideas, all you have to do is build a few to find out. That would even give you timelines of certain aspects of construction. At this point you have no clue how long it even takes different glues to dry.

Just build a plane, there's always something to learn. If you were to build a plane, you'd have something to get some flying experience as well. If you can successfully take a fully proven designed kit and build it, then get some instruction and fly it, you would know the degree of difficulty you're up against.. I can safely say myself and the other gentleman posting here probably know very well what you're up against, so I would advise you to heed the advice we're offering. It's good stuff.

I've built dozens of kits of different sorts, and I've said for years if a person really wants to learn about the finer aspects of building and construction, buy and build a kit from 5 different manufacturers, and pay close attention to the techniques each manufacturer/designer instructs the builder to do. If you did something like that, you'll end up with a small library in your heads of great techniques, and be on your way to aerospace engineering. If building kits sounds like it takes too long, you might be in the wrong class, because it takes what it takes. The end result is the goal, not how long it takes to get there.

PS... We're well aware of the original design being a VTOL... That's part of how we know what your facing. It's not a hill, It's a wall... get ready to climb if you want to get to the top. Good luck.

I was just reading your design ideas and, as I see it, putting a nitro .40 in the nose and a pair of electrics in the wings is asking for problems. If one of the electric motors fail, you will see your design flat spin into the ground unless you're very careful. If one fails during the climb out, you may not have time to react. Something else to consider is that you are looking at having to carry a lot of weight, being both the electric motor battery packs and nitro fuel just for starters. You also have to consider the weight of a throttle servo for the nitro motor as well as twin electronic speed controls. A Futaba S3004 ball bearing servo weighs weighs 1.31 ounces(37.2 grams) of which you will need four or five minimum, two ESCs that will weigh one ounce each(that is the weight of a Castle Creations BEC2.0 15A BEC rated at 14S, just for sake of figuring weight), two battery packs(one for each motor) at 600 grams each(that's for a Revolectrix 5000mah 4S 70C Graphene Oxide GoPACKS, again just for figuring weight). Now, add to that the variable weight of your nitro fuel and you're carrying a fairly large load, BEFORE you add your receiver and receiver pack.
Just got to thinking. Others have said to buy and build a Sig Kadet Sr. I have to agree with that recommendation. Something to consider is that you are looking at a plane that's 56 inches long with a span of 76 inches at 3.3 pounds. That will be very "short coupled", meaning it could be "twitchy" in flight. The Kadet Sr has a 78 inch span and is 62 inches long. It has an estimated flying weight of 6 pounds, nearly double what you are trying to achieve. That also includes fixed tricycle landing gear so, subtract that and you would be looking at a plane that's still roughly 5.75 pounds and is a proven design. BTW, what I listed as weights in the previous paragraph totaled up to be 275.4 grams or .607 pounds of weight. You still need to add nitro fuel and the weight of your electric motors and all three motor mounts as well as the other hardware needed to that

You are saying this is a college level project. Is there a specific goal for this project or is it a one time event. If the students are rather keen on a competitive level as most are then the SAEA Aerodesign Competition might be the answer. A team designs and builds the aircraft for a given task then they can have an experienced pilot fly it. I was the mentor/pilot for 8 years for the local u university and i must say we had a riot.

saeaerodesign.com

My club hosts the SAE heavy lift contest in Fort Worth every other year. I'm volunteering again this year. I was on the crash recovery team last time and probably will be again this year. I see some outstanding designs at that contest and also some of the most incompetent building you can imagine.

I'm going to be blunt here, just because I want to see you succeed in the long run.
If your team has been designing for a year and only now are getting around to thinking about building techniques, you've probably wasted most of that time. Design has to be done with building in mind. If your professors didn't explain that, they should really consider other employment.
But even if they didn't explain that, how could you possibly expect to create a good design from scratch without prototyping or testing anything? Surely you don't think that Solidworks wind tunnel sim is going to tell you anything?
Lastly, what kind of college junior or senior looking to graduate with an aeronautical engineering degree gets on an online forum to ask strangers to do their homework for them? Is this what you'll do if McDonnell Douglas hires you?

*rant over*

In the interest of helping you try to solve your dilemma: What's your timeline for getting a working prototype in the air? My suggestion is to look at plans for some of the classic pattern planes like the Joe Bridi Kaos. Those planes were designed to be fairly easy to build straight so they'd fly well with a minimum of fuss. Slab sided fuselages with foam wings aren't the lightest, but they are fast and will work. Also, search for an RC club in your area and make an appointment to work with a flight instructor. You'll not only build some piloting skills, but you'll also see what goes into a good flying plane.

I disagree with Jester our first year of competition the three students on the team only received permission after the Christmas holidays. They decided on a flying wing built it and without a test flight drove from Windsor Ontario Canada to Frorida and won everything in the advanced class. Three months to design, build and write up a report. Students accomplish this on top of the regular class load

I have flown at both the east and west competitions and quite a few put their maiden flights on Friday the weekend of the competition.

By the way the field in Bembrook just outside Fort Worth is quite nice. I have two models of Chuck Cunnighams Lazy Ace and was quite surprised to see a plaque in his honor at the feild. Great group of guys and gals hosting the event.Flying over the water can be intimidating. If you happen to be in the area a trip to the stockyards for a steak dinner is a must.

Yes, Chuck Cunningham was a founding member of the Thunderbirds. I've been a member there 13 years.
I agree that lots of teams make their maiden flight at the contest. They sometimes do well. They usually don't.
Are you making the trip this year, Propworn? It would be nice to put a face with the profile.

No after 9 years one of the first team members is an associate prof at the university and they have actually started an aeronautics program. The university prefers to use its own staff as advisers. I used to make a vacation out of it and took two weeks flying my own models at different feilds on the way down and back. That put the competition on the weekend in the middle of that two weeks. I have 8 weeks paid vaca every year now I load up the truck camper n trailer and the wife n I head out for a month or more and i visit clubs along the way. Last year we spent a month in Newfoundland this year not going as far but next year want to go to Tuktoyaktuk and float fly off the arctic ocean.

That sounds pretty great. My wife is the one in our family with the traveling bone. We plan to buy an RV when we retire in about 25 years and roam all over hell and creation. I'll have to make sure it has enough storage for a couple of planes.

Why wait? The wife and I had listened to many people say the same thing, only to find that when they retired, they:
1) Couldn't afford to buy one
2) Weren't able to use it due to declining health
3) Bought one and then found they couldn't afford to use it
4) Had too many other things to deal with to use it
We bought a 26ft camp trailer back in the fall of 2013 and started using it in March of 2014. Since then, the only states it hasn't been to yet are:
1) Alaska
2) Hawaii
3) North Dakota
4) Minnesota
5) Wisconsin
6) Michigan
7) Vermont*#
8) New Hampshire*#
9) Maine
10) Rhode Island*
11) Maryland*
12) Delaware*
13) New Jersey*
14) Oklahoma*#
15) Florida
16/17) The Carolinas*#
18/19) The Virginias*#
20) Maryland
Not too bad, 30 states in five years, something that we probably wouldn't have done if we had waited until we retired. Needless to say, many of the states the trailer hasn't been to the wife and I have. The only states WE haven't seen are marked with a *, the only ones I haven't seen are marked with a # :cool:

When we bought our first truck camper it was an oldie but a goody took a summer to refurbish it. No washroom but a porta potty and portable shower tent for those off grid times we camped which was often. Eventually tried a motor home then a trailer and fifth wheel eventually back to the truck camper this time an Arctic Fox 811. Washroom, AC everything we needed in a small package allowing us to tow a 12 ft enclosed trailer for the toys. Smaller footprint allows us access you would never get to with any of the others and allows a toybox tow behind. This is a stop at the Humber club in Newfoundland this summer. You can see the F250 Super Duty, camper, trailer even the canoe on top of the trailer.


The camper is designed for a short box pickup the F250 has a 6.5 ft bed as you can see there is lots of room for the two of us and one cat who likes to travel.

Sounds familiar, first one my family had was a 10ft Chinook camper on a beefed up 1967 Ford F-150. Was the same thing, porta potty and small water tank with a hand pump at the sink. Was totaled a few years later when the differential exploded while my father was driving down the freeway. He ended up wrapping it in roughly 100ft of chain link fencing while taking over a hillside. Left rear corner of the camper was smashed in, truck frame was damaged beyond repair and my father got away with bruises and a bruised ego. Only had one other RV trip after that, in 1973 he rented an 8ft Six Pac camper and put it on his 1963 Chevy C-10 that replaced the Ford. Took it on a two week trip across Washington and BC, got home and took it back after washing it. My trailer is the first RV anyone in the family has had since

RV's are great! We bought our Class-C a few years back and have been traveling and flying it up everywhere. A utility trailer to tow is the only way to go, you can carry many planes and toys without hassling putting them inside your rig. Our rig is only a 31' so we can still get most everywhere we want with no problem. I''m into my second year IMAC at this point, and just lovin life.

Don't wait 25yrs!! Just do it. I only wish I would have done it 25yrs ago, because there's things I would have liked to do then that I can't do now.. it's still a blast though.

Here's a link to a video on mine. There's a few insignificant variations but it's pretty much what mine looks like.
And here it is, first road trip, before I had totally dialed in the equalizer hitch:
https://attachment.outlook.live.net/...animation=true

Well we aren't doing it now because we both work at jobs we like full time and then some, so it wouldn't get used much. We are also planning to upgrade houses next year and are saving for our daughter's college. So we do have a plan. It's just that big toys don't fit into that plan for now.
We may pull the trigger on it sooner, like after my daughter graduates college. That would be in about 10 years.

Sounds like you have a plan. One thing you can do is to rent some and try out a couple different platforms. Motorhomes are easy to rent as are trailers. I know in Canada if you head west to the mountains you can rent a camper truck combo in BC. Iwould think you could find something similar in the US.
Find out what you like and the size buy once. Many make the mistake of buying one thi g and after a few trips wish they had purchased something else.

This is very true. Some go right to the biggest diesel pushers or 5th wheel trailer they can find thinking "I'll have room for everything I'll ever need" only to discover that they can't take it anywhere because it won't fit. Many campgrounds can't handle anything over 30 feet long due to tight turns and limited space. I've watched a diesel pusher, due to it's weight, sink into blacktop when supported by it's auto leveling struts.
The biggest thing to think about is "What do I really need to take with me when I hit the road?"
Funniest thing I've seen is a couple that had gone out and bought a 40 foot 5th wheel, a new one ton truck to pull it with and had never had an RV before. The wife and I had arrived at the campground 45 minutes earlier and had already set up our site and were eating lunch. The "rookie couple" pulled into the site next to ours, got out of their truck and started trying to figure out what to do next. To say it was a comedy of errors would be an understatement. The sequence off events went something like this:
1) Pulled into the site, leaving the rear 6-8 feet still in a drive area. Rookie wife asked husband if she could run out the slides. I went out to help them out
2) Had rookie husband pull rig ahead to clear drive area, asked if he had anything to level it with, met with blank stare and "What do you mean by level it?" Rookie Wife asks again, "Can I run the slides out?"
3) My wife brought out a small level that I placed on the floor of the new rig, found it was almost a "bubble" low to the right. Rookie husband found some interlocking leveling blocks in a storage compartment, showed him how to level the rig. Rookie wife asks again, showing frustration, "Can I run the slides out?"
4) I told rookie husband to disconnect the truck(it was blocking the drive area in at the other end of the site), only to have him start to do so without extending landing gear first. Stopped him from dropping the trailer on the ground and helped him unhitch the trailer. His wife asks again "Can I run the slides out yet?" now getting seriously aggravated
5) I asked the rookie husband if he knew how to hook up the trailer to power/water/sewer? Rookie husband tells me he can't hook up to water as it will over fill his water tank and shore power will damage his batteries, both not true. Explain to him how the trailer is set up and how to hook everything up. Rookie wife decides she's not going to wait any longer and runs out slides, forcing rookie husband to have to crawl under slides to hook up trailer to power/water/sewer connections.
6) Rookie husband finishes hooking up utilities but has the sewer hose laying on the ground, meaning it won't drain properly. I show him a support I have for my sewer line, only to find he had bought one but didn't know what it was for. Installed the support for him as he watched
7) Rookie wife asks rookie husband to set up her "kitchen". My wife and I look at each other confused as the kitchen should be set up 'inside the trailer". Come to find out, they had been watching You Tube videos on what they would need. EVERY STORAGE AREA WAS RAMMED FULL OF STUFF!!!!!!!! Wife and I watched as he pulled multiple camp carpets, multiple tables, multiple camp stoves, electric coffee pots, several folding chairs and who knows what all else out of the various storage areas. Two hours later, he's finally done and I, being the helpful person I am, take a walk around their trailer. With all the stuff he had pulled out, most of the storage areas were still full. When I asked why they had so much stuff, I was told that the internet said they would need it all for a month long trip. At this point, there wasn't much I more I could do except give him the following advice; You need to do two things when you get home:
1) Unload EVERYTHING you have in the storage compartments and only put back the things you actually used this trip
2) Take another SHORT trip, and see what you use or miss on that trip. Anything you don't miss that was left at home or wasn't used on the short trip doesn't go back in to the trailer as all that weight is hard on the truck and trailer

Just got to thinking, that was back in 2014, at a KOA in Spokane Washington. I wonder how much they took out of the trailer and, more importantly, are they still married? All she could think about was running out the slides and her own comfort. If things didn't change, I'd be willing to bet they either don't still have the rig or are divorced because of it

I honestly had not thought of that. But it makes sense. 2 or 3 weekend rentals would be worth many times the cost in getting the purchase right the first time.

on top of that it will only wet the appetite for more LOL. All throughout the winter we ask each other if you want to go camping then bust out laughing. The cat loves the adventure and is one of our main entertainment's.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...2cb69a6bfa.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rcu...379cfb55e1.jpg

Hydro Junkie, that was a hilarious story! We've seen similar to that a few times, only not really to that degree..LOL. It's usually pretty easy to spot a new RV'er. There's a bit to learn it, but if you buy it from a decent dealer or someone that will show you the ropes it's not bad at all.

We worked on deciding what we wanted in an RV for about 3yrs this time. We've owned a few others in years past, so it wasn't necessarily new to us... but it had been quite a while since we'd been RV'ing.... and our kids are all grown and gone(3 girls in their 30's) We wanted to get something this time just for us, that we'll keep for a while, and actually use more then we did our previous rigs.

We're retired now, and wanted something simple, and affordable, so we went the used route and bought our Class C, real clean with only 22,000 miles. Was able to save several thousand dollars on it compared to a newer unit. No slides for us though. It's just the wife and I now, and we're outside most of the time anyway. We figured we didn't want the weight factor, and the unit we liked didn't have slides anyway. It's literally one less thing to deal with. Hook ups are a cinch, and with a 31' and no slides, we can get in anywhere. We're very happy with it.

We're heading over to Death Valley next week to hang out, do some hiking, and kick back for a while. I toss a plane or 2 in the back and we have a few fields we'll stop at along the way and do some flying. It should be beautiful over there.

That is one of those stories you just can't make up.
To make things even funnier, they had relatives in another rig by the gate to the pool, across the campground. The relatives were experienced RVers that left our neighbors to their own trouble as they felt it would help them to learn. I actually felt sorry for the group as they were headed to Yellowstone for a total trip of two weeks, one RV being total rookies and the other experienced that refused to help the rookies out. If it was me, I don't think I would have taken the trip with the relatives. It was kind of like watching the Griswalds trip to "Wally World" in the movie American Vacation except that it wasn't going to be a vacation

From your description, they kinda sound like the sort of people you can't tell anything to until after they've screwed up. Even being newbies, I'd think they should have read up on it and known how to hook things up and what's ok and not.
We see guys like that in RC training too. There was one 2 years ago at my club. Showed up with an RTF foamy trainer. Said he'd watched YouTube videos and been flying on the sim so he was ready. An instructor strongly suggested getting on the buddy box or at least having an experienced pilot trim his plane for him first. He refused. On a side note, he didn't have his AMA or club membership, so per our lease regulations he shouldn't have been allowed to fly on his own. But I wasn't privy to the conversation until later. He took off, promptly made a hard right turn, and scattered EPS all over the roof of the pit area next to the parking lot. After some colorful language, he said he was getting a refund because the plane was "ready to fly."
Now I know that the best thing to do is leave the guy alone and let him think it out over the next few days. But sometimes I just can't resist a good burn. So since I just happened to be the closest person to him while he was retrieving what he could from the roof and still going off about how he got gipped and was going to complain, I calmly told him, "Piloting skills aren't included in the box. Just because the plane was ready to fly doesn't mean you are."
I managed to survive that exchange, and he left. The craziest part is he came back about 3 weeks later, having bought another foamy. The whole refund thing didn't work out after all. He again refused help (both incidences were on training day, so instructors were everywhere) and again flipped his plane over and crashed it. This time, I brought up the AMA situation with the instructor who had talked with him and we had an impromptu meeting about following rules so we don't lose our property. The guy never came back.

Not really. There were actually three things going on in that campground:
1) Rookie Husband wanted to learn and was like a sponge. From what I could tell, the dealer that they bought the trailer from didn't really go over everything with them before letting them take the trailer home. Due to that lack of instruction, they watched the internet where, like everything else, they were given conflicting information that had them more confused than helped
2) Rookie Wife was only concerned about being able to be comfortable and didn't really consider that there were other things that had to be done BEFORE she could be comfortable. Where my wife helps me out leveling and such, the Rookie Wife felt she didn't need to do anything except run out the slides and kick her feet up. It's not quite that easy.
3) Experienced Relatives left them to their own devices, not showing up until after all the work was done. Had they come down and tried to help out the rookies, we wouldn't have had to step in and help. Since they were taking a two week long trip, the experienced relatives should have been helping them with setting up and tearing down the camp site and what to do both inside and out to get the trailer ready to move. The wife learned this from a friend when we stayed with them in their 32ft Winnebago. We've not had anything damaged inside in the 5+ years and 20,000 plus miles we've had our trailer due to her pre-trip packing

Sounds like you guys have it right. My father in law owns an RV. He bought the biggest one that he could park by his house, because that's how he decides on everything he buys- which one is the most expensive and the most trouble. He mostly owns it so he can fix it. I've never known him to take a trip in it without first needing to replace a battery, or tire, or get the generator fixed, . Watching all the time, aggravation, and resources he's put into his has made me hesitant, but I've always also thought it can't really be that hard for everyone. His boat and house are the same story.

I know a lot of people that are the same way, buy the biggest and most expensive so you can show up everyone else.
The problem with doing that is how practical is it? For the wife and I, our 26 footer is big enough for what we need. It has a place to sleep, a place to cook, a place to eat and a 3/4 bath. To go larger is to add problems that we just don't need to add. Slides can and do leak and add a considerable amount of weight. Large holding tanks add a lot of weight as well, specifically when full. My trailer has a total capacity of 42 gallons(36 in the tank & 6 in the hot water heater) of fresh water, 19 gallons of sink/shower drain(grey) water and 19 gallons of sewer(black) for the toilet. If I had all three tanks full, that would be 668 pounds, if the black tank just had liquid in it. We will be taking our trailer out a couple of times over the next few months, one dry camping(no hook ups) and one with power and water. Both have their own challenges. Dry camping requires you to monitor you propane, water and batteries very carefully. Use too much of any and you will run out. When you have power and water, you can never run out of either one, which creates it's own problems. With the water, you also have to be careful of over-filling your holding tanks. Put too much water down the drain and you will have water backing up into the shower/tub and/or sinks. What I prefer to do is to dump the holding tanks as soon as possible after camping or when the tanks register a specific amount of contents. Many rest areas have dump stations and I prefer to stop at them as they are free. Many camp grounds have free dump sites for those who have stayed there the previous night as well.

We kept it simple and affordable as well with our 31' Class C. No slides, didn't need the weight or mechanical issues that can come from them... a slide is nice and all, but we're outside most of the time. We have smaller holding tanks, around 40 gallons I believe, again weight factor.. and we're conservative.

We tossed around the idea of a conventional trailer or toy-hauler, but neither of our vehicles will comfortably tow something that large. We're at a 3500lb tow capacity, and a trailer would be borderline heavy, and loaded it would probably be over weight. There are light trailers, but they're generally more money... and we just didn't want to chance it with our vehicles. So we opted for the Class C, with a powerful Ford V-10. Probably the best power plant for a large RV. Really about the only one other then the Chevy Workhorse.. which isn't highly rated. The Ford V-10 does it's job very well, and is quiet smooth power. We stayed well away from anything diesel... servicing those, and getting them worked on can be challenging, whereas the Ford V-10 can be serviced by many places...and parts are readily available. We probably won't need parts for a long time though.

It would have cost us much more if we went for a trailer, as we would have needed to replace one of our current vehicles with a tow vehicle. If you already have a tow vehicle though you're half way there, and a nice used trailer can be had for a very reasonable price. If you have a vehicle to tow, a nice trailer can be had for probably $10k or less if you shop it. Toy-hauler styles are a bit more expensive, but still not bad. Another factor for our Class C is it tows our plane/toy trailer... or whatever we want. We couldn't carry my planes with a conventional trailer, my planes are too big to fit through any RV door. If you fly smaller planes, the sky's the limit though.

So there' was much consideration before we bought this recent RV. Hopefully it will last us for years. We did 7,000 miles last year, and are about to take our first trip this year into Death Valley... after that the IMAC season starts for us here in Central Cali, and we can get out and fly those events. They've already started in Az, and So Cal, and we have to catch up to them.

Lost the op sometime back as the topic jumped ship as usual LOL

But, the question is "was it because the topic jumped ship or was it because he didn't like the advice he was given?

I've seen topics shift but this is ridiculous. No wonder the op bailed out. Who could blame him?

The OP's last activity on this site was

• Last Activity: 02-18-2020 09:03 PM

If you read and do a timeline on comments, it's likely he might not have gotten the information he was needing(for whatever reason)..... It had nothing to do with any current topics... I digress, as I'm guilty of going off topic, but really it wouldn't have mattered.... he hasn't been on this site to read anything past that time stamp I put up. Think what you want though, and draw your own conclusions. It's not too often at all I go off topic, but it was a good off topic conversation I thought.

... but I guess the topic police have now entered the scene. I'm guilty, I'm sorry someone apparently had a problem with it. I can take the hit and do the time. I'll just take my RV and hit the road.
It was nice chatting with you all. Bye.

I don't see a problem here , ALL threads drift after the original topic has gone stale , and the only time it's a problem is when the sub topic gets nasty . And here we have a few guys talking about their RVs ? I hardly see that as reason for calling in the thread purity police , and I don't even own an RV ;)

I don't generally like going off on tangents if the original topic is still live, but this one ended as soon as the OP saw that we weren't going to do his homework for him. I might have been too harsh; I usually am not with new people. But I really thought he was probably about a 10th grader by the way he wrote and what he seemed to already know. When I realized that he was a college senior, I just lost all patience.

I agree that it appears that the OP had bailed prior to the RV talk starting however from a different perspective, as a Composites kinda guy when I would see that there was a new reply to this thread I would take a look incase there was something useful I would be able to contribute. It ended up being a small waste of my time. I have in the past when in someone else's thread and asked a off topic question suggested a new thread in which I would be more then happy to answer the question. I have also apologized to a thread OP when it appeared that somone specifically came into their thread to rudely object to some information that I provided.