Trainers
 

Hi All!

I'm getting ready to buy my first plane and was looking for any recommendations on which trainer to get. I also have a few questions.

What is the best trainer to start out with?

Are there any to avoid?

What size to get .40 or .60?

What about a good first radio?

Any other comments or suggestions would be appreciated also.


Thanks in advance.

Jeff

Trainers
 

Sig Kadet LT 40 with an OS 40 or 46 FX or a Saito 56 four stroke. Anything in the J.R. radio line is great..............John

Trainers
 

jeff,

THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD TRAINERS OUT THERE THAT, THAT IS A TOUGH QUESTION TO ANSWER..

The TOWER HOBBIES TRAINERS are very good, and the larger you go the better they fly.

My GRANDSON was 6 when he started. we started him on a RIGHTFLYER 40,(the old "real one") He has it yet today, 2 years later. I just started my SON-IN-LAW flying, I had a trainer here that I bought from a guy and was going to start him on it(don't know what it is) GRANDSON flew it and said no.... I also have a CARL GOLDBERG EAGLE, GRANDSON flew it and said to give it to son-in-law. said it flies "much better".

And on the radio gear, I like to fly FUTABA, but as with many aspects of this hobby that's just personal preference. I have a SUPER 8 and GRANDSON has a SUPER 6.

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR NEW ENDEVOR!

HAVE FUN!

RON in NEVADA

Trainers
 

Sig LT 40 kit or arf,any decent .40 or .46 2 stroke,doesnt have to have ball bearings,a basic computer 6 channel if you can afford it or a starter level four channel if you cant.Stay with the three or four standard brand names for the radio,preferably the brand most common in your club,or whatever your instructor is flying so that you can use a buddy cord if you or he/she wish.

Trainers
 

My daughter started flying late July of last year at the age of 9 on a Hobbico Avistar 40.

She had buddy boxed the basics, taken off, stunted, and was practicing "slow-n-low" by the end of the season in anticipation of landing. Her instructor states she'll be soloing this year in about a months time.

The plane is pretty forgiving and quite capable of basic aerobatics. In fact, it may be a bit too fast & maneuverable for some. She didn't seem to have too much trouble though...

We bought an ARF version and found several improvements that needed to be made over the prescribed assembly after the first 5 or 6 flights. Namely epoxying the wing halves together, and the horizontal and vertical stabilizer.

Summary: Good plane, good trainer, comprised of very nice name brand parts. Right now the complete ARF (plane, motor, transmitter, receiver, batteries, etc.) is street priced at about $299.00 that's a pretty good bargain these days.

best trainer
 

When you start instructing, you get to try a lot of diffeent trainers with a lot of different engines. The best all around is still the Sig LT40. It has a very strong design, will turn into a big glider if the engine quits, lands at walking speed and has excellent ground handling. Its also available as a kit or ARF. With a FX46 engine you can do cool stuff like hang on the prop and do torque rolls. After setting up lots of different engines, 2 brands stand out as being reliable and easy to adjust. OS and Thunder Tiger. Get the FX46 for OS or the 46Pro for the thunder Tiger. Both engines will also be good for your 2nd plane. You can find cheaper engines, but the cheaper engines have quirks that get annoying. For radios, I would follow Kevins advise. Hope this helps, Fast!

Trainers
 

Paint,

Welcome! The r/c universe is a great thing isnt it :D ! You're question is one frequently asked. I would advise a few things. Join the AMA and then find a local club. Look for an instructor and/or some other beginners. See what they did!

As far as particulars about planes, I sure many here at RCU will be happy to help you! You better watch out, its addictive you know! :)

Note: Try learning to use the great search facility on RCU. Just type IN "beginner trainer" or something like that. You'll get tons of info. Happy reading (and flying) ..nine

Trainers
 

What makes the Best Trainer.

A while back I was helping another new student, Grant. He has a PT60 with a OS FP60 and a Focus 4 four channel radio. He got everything as a package. Teaching him to fly with this plane is almost impossible. The engine is great, the plane takes off and lands ok, but it is a pig in the air and difficult to fly. He built it according to the instructions with an obscene amount of dihedral. We were flying in a moderately stiff breeze, 12-15mph. The plane had slightly more throws than recommended. Turning down wind tool a little aileron and let go of the sticks and it completed the turn and headed down wind on it’s own. Turning up wind was almost impossible without coordinated use of aileron, rudder, and elevator. Flying it seems more like fighting the plane to get it where we want it than having it fly where we tell it. It does not respond to control inputs in a uniform manner. It is difficult to teach a skill when identical actions get different responses. I will again start a thread on what makes a good trainer.

The current dogma says to learn to fly RC model airplanes the best way to start is with a “Trainer” that has a high flat bottom wing with generous dihedral so it self corrects. I believe this is wrong! I believe the following are the best characteristics for a trainer.

1. Flies Slow (light wing loading)
2. Flies Very Stable
3. Responds to controls in a uniform fashion (Does What it’s told When it’s told the same way every time)
4. Inexpensive and easy to repair

Take note, nowhere in that list do I list the type of plane, high wing, low wing, mid, wing shoulder wing, doesn’t make that big a difference as long as it is slow stable responds to it’s controls uniformly. It is an easy task to limit the amount of control to get the control rate at an acceptable level for a beginner.

Nowhere in the list is the term “Self Correcting”. Planes designed to self-correct are harder to fly. If you try to allow them to self correct they will crash long before finish correcting themselves or you fly them so high you can’t tell what the plane is doing. “Self Correcting” also means that you will have to fight the plane to turn up wind, fight the plane to turn it in general. We are teaching people to fly R/C models not guide free flight models. The early days of RC we used modified free flight models. Current Trainers reflect our free flight heritage.

My experience has shown that people who learn with typical Trainers all learn in about the same amount of time as somebody who learns with a “Sport” plane. I know a lot of people have successfully learned to fly with Eagle II’s and the like but from what I’ve seen the people who learn with a “Trainer” crash more after they solo, especially when they go to something sportier. After learning with a “Trainer” they pretty much have to re-learn to fly anything else. People who learn with a “Sport” plane learn to fly just as fast, crash less after they solo, and can fly a larger variety of aircraft sooner.

Planes I think make good trainers and that I have successfully taught people to fly with:
1. Four Star 40 (probably the best trainer ever!!!)
2. American Flyer (ARF)
3. Ugly Stick (any of several variations)
4. Easy Sport 40
5. Airmidillo Trainer
6. Sig LT25 (very slow, very responsive, way better flier than LT40)
7. Thundar Tiger Wold Trainer 40H (semi-symmetrical high-wing low-dihedral ARF – This one looks like a typical “Trainer” but flies like a typical “Sport” model)

All these planes are very stable, don’t tip stall, can fly very slowly, respond uniformly to controls, and have fairly light wing loading. These characteristics make better trainers than typical Trainers. Now all we have to do is get instructors to take a critical look at Trainers. I don’t buy arguments like: “The XYZ trainer has worked great to train zillions of students for years”, or “I learned on a SR. Kadet, so that’s the best trainer”. Doctors used to bleed people that didn’t make it right. With the absolutely dependable radios of today, and buddy cords, we don’t need to learn with glorified free flight models.

Tom Rhodes

Trainers
 

There are some good points in this last input,but I would beware strong opinions,with apparentley no room for anyone elses experience,by new members who dont fill out their profiles,if I was a begginer trying to figure out the complexities of a new hobby/sport.
I stand by what I said,that the LT 40 is the plane I prefer to instruct on above all others that I have flown til now.

Trainers
 

Jeff,

Wecome to a hobby that will provide you with a life long learning experience. I hope you will enjoy this hobby as much as I have. There is much more help out there now than when I started and the radios are Much better.


I must agree with Kevin, there are many good trainers out there and the LT-40 is one of the best.

I began flying R/C in 1953 the planes then had to be self correcting as the radios were not very realiable (basicly free-flight that we ocationaly iterfered with a radio signal).

My personal liking is any of the Telemasters the bigger you can afford the better. The only problem with them is that they are a little more difficult to build than most, but are also available as ARFs.

Trainers
 

I agree on the Telemaster and I only rank it no 2 due to its availability,complexity building if not an ARF,and a hardware package that is not up to the SIG product ,IMO.I learned way back when too,with a DeBolt Champ,(talk about dihedral!)and I remember all too well how easy my first aileron model was to fly after the Champ experience!
If I was running a flight school,Id use a fleet of boxy tail-draggers,with wingspans of 80" or more ,with small gassers for power,but this is not what the average beginner can build or afford,especially if he/she is not totally sure of their interest,time,and $ commitment to a great new hobby......

Sport Plane Trainer
 

Tomr,

You present some very good points! I was interested in learning with a 4*40 because everyone I talked to told me how well it flew and how forgiving it was. My instructor was not keen on the Idea. I now have a LT-40. :rolleyes:

Jake C.

Re: Trainers
 

For best trainer, if you're willing to build, I would recommend the SPAD Debonair (www.spadtothebone.com), or the similar kit Aircore Trainer. If you go with a wood ARF, assemble the wing carefully, and consider glassing the joint. I saw a wing fold on a Tower trainer last week, and from what I could see, the guy had assembled it exactly to the instructions.

The only reason to go with a .60-sized plane is if your eyesight is not perfect, so you'd prefer a bigger plane.

For first radio, I suggest the Tower Hobbies 4 channel basic radio, just because it's so inexpensive. If you get addicted, you'll have plenty of urges to buy better radios. At that point, I'd suggest the Hitec Flash 5, a very reasonably priced computer radio.

Aside to Kevin: I don't understand the comment about filling out the profile. I don't think I filled mine out, and I didn't know the soundness of my opinions were being judged by my lack of profile. It's quite possible to use RC Universe for a long time and not know the profile even exists!

Trainers
 

Get a Sig LT-25 with a ox25fx engine and a nice little 4 ch radio.

You can fly the LT25 on 6oz of fuel for 15-20 min at 1/2 speed and it will land about as fast as you walk.

I live in Port Angeles, wa and we fly in wind all day long by the ocean. It is a great little plane.

Trainers
 

Jeff, In responce to gpmikemorse I would like to say that eyesight is not the reason for going as large as you can afford but just because larger flies better and beginers tend ot fly too far away after they have been released to fly solo. I had to bring back a Senior Telemaster for a newly soloed pilot from so far out that it was only a dot anything smaller would be out of sight (he was a younger pilot with very good eyesight) just poor judgement.

Trainers
 

I like the Eagle 2 the best because it does handle the wind pretty well. I like the idea of medium dihedral because the plane will not self-correct which is something that the pilot has to fight to make a turn. When I teach, I don't use a buddy-box. I've found that when I give the student the tx and tell him to not do a thing, I can easily monitor what his fingers are doing. By placing my thumb and forefinger underneath his thumb which is on top of the stick, I can prevent him from making any quick movements; at the same time feel exactly what his is doing and instantly correct his stick movements.

To demonstrate how stable the trainer is, I will bank the plane over and hold the tx without touching the sticks to show how the plane will make several turns completely on its own. So when I give the newbie the tx, I tell him not to do a thing. To make his first turn, I tell him to hold the stick over about an 1/8 of an inch for about a count of 3, and then go back to center. The other drill I do is have the student watch his thumb as he moves the stick as I watch the plane. I instruct him this way and that way he can see and feel at the same time what his thumb is doing so he can make a very smooth turn. In fact, my students fly much better when they fly this way. It is an instant cure to the banging sticks syndrome.

Of course this method takes some practice but makes teaching much easier and much less stressful, once it is learned. I've been very successful teaching this way for over 20 years, BTW.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

Trainers
 

I agree there are many good trainers out there.

When asked the question I answer it like this:

A) You want a model you can see.
For example...Bright color on top with darker color on the bottom. This way you know what side is up and down.

B) You want a FLAT BOTTOM WING.
The model will be more forgiving.

C) You want a .40 size airplane
Anything smaller and it can be hard to see when your flying 2 mistakes high.

D) Get with someone with flying experience.
Crashing your first model can be not only be discouraging but also costly.

E) Built your model straight and true. Then set everything up as instructed. If you need to add weight to balance your model DO SO. The model must be balanced to fly.

I taught myself to fly many years ago and Yes it can be done. But my advice is to seek help from people in the hobby already. It could save you money as well as airplanes.

Besides, Like many good trainer airplanes there are many good people willing to help anyone new to the hobby.

How do you find someone willing to help you? (I won't lie to you ..There are some that won't. just move on.) The best way is to locate a flying field and visit. Watch who flies and who sits around and bs's. Talk to club members as many clubs have people that are known as instructors. There job (with in the club)is to help new people.

Myself being self taught (not by my choice) I know what it is like when you can't find anyone to help and it is for that reason I will go out of my way to help anyone interested in the hobby.

BTW Welcome to the sport of RC Flying Jeff and Best of Luck to you!

Trainers
 

Thanks everyone for all your input.


Jeff

Trainers
 

Something no one wants to point out, to busy recommending their favorite trainer/plane.

STOP.. think about where you want to go in this hobby. Are you staying in the sport range, Going to warbirds, Jets, Multiengines???
this can and should effect your decision on what to start with. If you are planning to be real serious about the sport, start looking for and talking to different instructors. Watch what those intructors fly. You dont want to get an intructor that cant teach you anythg past the sig senior, slow and easy, if you want to go scale or jet or both.
If your going to get larger planes get the larger trainer With maybe the engine that would be used on your "next plane" if your have those plans. Get at least a 6channel of more if you can invest in it. If not Your next plane w/ flaps,retracts,etc won't fit on that 4ch and you have to buy it anyway. Almost any modern trainer on the market(and sport plane mentioned) you will be able to be tought with. The Quality of the intructor will determine how long you keep that plane. So pick your instructor, It's your choice, If the field won't let you, find another field.

THINK ABOUT IT?
Some of these planes are thousands of dollars, You wouldn't buy any car that some one wanted you to?

Good luck, You'll love the hobby
brian

Trainers
 

Glad you brought that up Brian,

If you are new to the hobby, Ask the instructor what he flys.
Many instructors bring only their trainers to the field on the weekends.

A good instructor will devote all of his time to instructing new people on the weekends or helping others and since there is no time to fly his/her other models then they are left at home.

However, I do have the answer to that little catch. For the new pilot that wants to move right up to muilt engine aircraft I have
trainers in single twin and four engine models. But I don't always take them all to the field unless someone ask.
Below is a look at the C-130 trainer.
http://testfly.0catch.com/airplanes/image/c13010.jpg
The only thing a person needs to fly is a AMA card and the interest in the hobby.

Enjoy the sport.

Trainers
 

When I considered getting back into flying I did a lot of reading and research never feeling comfortable about what I wanted to spend my money on in case I didn't stay with it or changed my mind about what I wanted to fly. b17flyer hit it right on the head.
You really need to think ahead of that first plane. You'll be spending close to double what most people say in the beginning. Do you have ALL of the building tools,glue and various other support items you'll need? Most likely not. They aren't free. I've spent over $500 already. I've got good stuff that won't have to be replaced anytime soon. I figure that has saved me money in the long run. The smartest purchase I made was a 7 channel Hitec computer radio. $150 on clearance. After having it I feel it is worth the full list price now. Setup is SO much easier and the radio will work with just about any plane I go to in the future.
The plane? Well after seeing all of the recommendations for the LT-40 I got one. I'm not sorry I did. Very, very nice kit. I also picked up a Right Flyer 40 ARF. It was $69 clearance so it will be the first to get used. The LT-40 is getting a few modifications during the buildup.

As a retread newbie my recommendation for your first plane would be one of them on Real Flight G2. Your first R/C purchase should be G2. Thats exactly what I did. I flew G2 for about three weeks then made the comittment to spend the extra money for the plane etc. The $200 for G2 hurt in the beginning but if I had to do it over again I wouldn't change a thing. If Real Flight was around when I flew in the early 80's I would never have sold out and gone to cars. I would have been a much better pilot.
Because of a left thumb injury I will have very limited use of it when the pins are taken out in a couple more weeks. The joint has been fused making rudder stick use very limited. With G2 I can practice to compensate for this minor handicap. How many planes would I go through in the learning process? I can't even make my first flight in 17 years for a couple more weeks yet I'm waiting with full confidence that I will be a much better pilot than I was way back when.

The smartest thing you did was to come to this forum. You can't hang out in just one thread though. There is just too much good information being passed on by everyone here. Ask questions until you are satisfied with what you want to do. After all it is your money that's being spent.

Trainers
 

I've already decided to purchase G2 but it seams to be out of stock and on backorder everywhere. I've tried everyone from Tower down to the LHS and the best answer i can get is MAYBE some time in May or June. If anyone knows a source that has it in stack please let me know.

Thanks

Jeff

Trainers
 

I had to wait almost a full month to get mine. (end of March)
It was worth the wait. Honestly I wouldn't buy the add on discs just yet. There is some cool stuff on them to be sure but you don't "need" them right now. The money I spent on #1 and #3 wasn't a waste but it would have been better spent on something else.
I'm running Windows 2000 with a pretty low end video card and had zero problems. Just stay away from the ATI cards and you should be fine.
I can't say enough good things about G2. I spend at least a full hour a day flying on it. There aren't many planes I can't fly and land safely. The jets are kinda tough but I make it more often than not. Not to say that it's easy but with a LOT of practice you get more and more confidence.
Go ahead and order it now. Spend another couple of days asking questions and deciding which plane you want to start with. G2 should get to you hopefully before you finish building the plane. Then you can do a ton of crashing on the computer instead of with your plane. I can't speak with the experience of the others here. All I can say is what is working great for me. Good luck.

Trainers
 

Go to http://www.spadtothebone.com and download the free FMS flight simulator. Not as graphic intensive as the one you pay for, but works better than I ever could have dreamed. Consider building a Debonair...they're getting popular as the word gets out:)
http://144.92.249.236/images/503.jpg

Trainers
 

Two points I always like to make are (as mentioned earlier) stay away from anything smaller than 40 size airplane (it's easier to fly a hawk than a mosquito). And while 60 size is easier yet, they can also hurt the wallet both in original cost and fuel consumption. So I always recommend 40 size to start with. The other point is to stay away from ARF's at first. Let's face it, there's a good chance that at some point you might break it. If you BUILT it, you understand the building process and therefore can make repairs more easily (plus you still have the plans, the die-cut scraps that can be used as templates to make new parts, etc.). And IMHO you're more likely to take pride in something that you BUILT as opposed to something you took out of a box.