Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

Hi Folks - I have been using the search tool quite a lot to look for advise on buying my second plane (I am a beginner using a hobbico superstar 40 at the moment). It seems to me that all of the advice points to planes which I do not find interesting from a looks point of view. For example, the 4 star figures quite heavily. What I don't like about this plane is that the engine is exposed.

Can anyone advise me as to an ARF scale looking plane (PREFERABLY a warbird), which MUST have an engine cowl, which would make a good second plane? I am willing to spend the EXTRA time on my superstar if it means I can get straight to a plane I like the look of.

Three of my favourite planes are the Sukhoi SU 31, Mitsubishi Zero and P-51D - would any of these be suitable? I would really like something quite acrobatic too so i can 'grow in to it'.

photoniq.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

The problem there is that you are trying to go from a Tricycle to a 10-speed all in one step. The only difference is, when you fall off your 10-speed, it's not going to end up a box of splinters. How about doing a clipped-wing Cub? You could do it in military colors if that trips your trigger.

Or maybe one of these:

http://www.hpiracing.co.jp/contents_...n40/spare.html

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

You are asking a lot, but I believe its possible. First really master your trainer. I mean the fundamentals. I have often seen a flier at the field take off and do a pretty good aerobatic demonstration then come in for landing and the airplane was all over the sky and the landing was a controlled crash. Practice until you can fly a precision pattern around the field, make a precise approach and land close to the runway centerline. Practice flying at full throttle putting the airplane where you want it with little effort, and you never get confused as to orientation.

When you have pretty well mastered the trainer in its present configuration, move the cg a little aft and do it again. If you are actually willing to stay with your trainer until you develop real flying skills you can move up with little difficulty. Don't be hesitent about going back on the buddy box with your second airplane for the first flight or so.

In the ARF category, I have a Great Planes T-6 which is not too difficult to fly. It's the only ARF I've ever assembled, but I just liked the looks. Of course it won't do 3D stuff but it really looks cool in flight, and is just a little more challenging than a trainer to fly. With proper training you should be able to handle it. There is always the Thunder Tiger Lazy Tiger P51. It isn't scale and the engine isn't cowled but it should fly almost like the trainer and the cowling could be modified to improve its appearance.

As to cowling, The easiest is of course the ring cowling like the T-6 since cooling isn't a problem if you have enough exit area. A completely cowled engine can present cooling and accessibility problems that you don't need to deal with until you have considerable experience operating engines. A "semi-cowl" is easy to make and looks good in flight. With the cylinder exposed, cooling is not a problem and you can access the engine for adjustments. I have seen pictures of 4* airplanes with custom cowls that really improve the appearance. The attached picture is of a "semi-cowl" on an aircraft I designed as an example of something other than "cheeks".

Ultimately to get an airplane that looks like you want it to, you will need to build your own and not depend on ARF's.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I was going to suggest a cub as well. You try one of the 3 you picked, they won't last long and you will be looking at #3. You would be better off to go with something in between and go to the faster plane when you gain some exp.

The problem comes when the plane does something your trainer won't, and you won't know what to do with it or how to fix it to make it keep flying.

Have some patients. If not, you will get really frusterated and end up loosing interest when you crash your hotrod. Mabye look to a somethin extra or something like that. It will do all the maneuvers, but is not so darn hard to fly. Gain some exp, get the hotrod and hang it on the ceiling for a while if you have to. You will go through many planes in this hobby, you don't want to go through them too fast.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

Thanks for the responses... I definitely don't want a cub - id rather get a stick than a cub. Sorry to all the cub lovers out there :) I just have an irrational dislike of that plane :)

The Texan T-6 looks pretty damn good :) So with LOTS of practice I might be able to jump to that? Cool! What makes it easier to fly than a zero or a sukhoi su 31?

Cheers,
photoniq

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

what about the f4u corsair? it is one of my favorite planes and i've heard some of them could neerly be used as a trainer. I'm not ready yet but it's something i think about for my 2nd or 3rd plane.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

Your asking for trouble and taking to big of a step. Think hard about a CUB. If you have got to have a warbird the P-47 Thunderbolt is the best flying one.
David

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

You might consider the Lanier Stinger 60 ARF. It's a nice flyer and lander and fully cowled and looks great.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

might I suggest the horizon T34
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=HAN2425
Dont load it up with retracts right away. Keep the weight down and I think this warbird would qualify
for a second plane

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I have not heard many good reviews on the GP T-6. My vote would be for the Kyosho spitfire. It flys as gentle as a four star. The plane looks good but has shelfpaper covering. My second choice would be a P-47. Do you want an arf or do you want to build

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

Here's a really good idea for you:

Once you are competent with your trainer, get whatever warbird trips your trigger, but get a kit, not an ARF. Before you start building it, slap a SPAD together and fly the wings off it until your warbird is finished. A SPAD will only set you back about $20 (Cheaper if you steal some election signs). At that point, you can decide if you're ready to risk your nice warbird, or if you want to spend a little more time bashing the SPAD around.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

MinnFlyer has a really good idea here. I built a SPA3D this summer, and had a blast with it. The New SPA3DT would be a good bet to start with. Also, I like the idea of building a kit better than an ARF anyway.

Another option would be the GP F-15. It has the engine somewhat enclosed in a built up cowl and is fairly easy to build and fly. It's a bit faster than your probably used to, but could with help be flown as a second plane. Mine fly's great, but does not handle an X-wind very well.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I don't know about that particular kit of the T-6, however, scale T-6s often have tip stalling problems due to the narrow tip chord and swept wings. To get rid of that problem, a "good" kit will have a fair bit of washout, which can make a huge difference in take-off and landing, but reduces your acrobatic abilities, since washout becomes washin when inverted.

I've heard the T-34 Mentor mentioned aboe is a really nice flying plane with out bad habits. Does a military trainer count as a "war bird"? If it does, you could always do a Tiger Moth :D (I'm working on one now, going to paint it in RAF war time colors.)

Most Sukhoi kits are going to be designed for advanced acrobatics. Done scale, it's short coupled, and has a fairly small wing. So the wingloadings and controls are going to be designed for someone to really do some wild stuff with the plane. Some of those kits might be ok if you reduce the control throws (and many lenghten the tail moment from scale anyway).

In theory, you could have a Sukhoi-looking plane that flew like a 4*, all it would take is careful choice of airfoil, a little creative scaling with the wing and tail, and some conservitive control surfaces.

On the other hand, the Sukhoi that I have (had? I still have it, but it's pretty badly broken) has a rather thin wing, and had a nasty violent snap rolling tendancy. That snapping made it tons of fun. It's also what killed the plane (with some help from the pilot), as I tried to exit a tail slide a little too low, a little too hard on the elevator and didn't have the altitude to recover from the resulting snap. (I also think the nose weight fell out just prior to the tail slide, making it deadly tail heavy, but that's another story).

How important is scale look to you? I mean, the Sukhoi is "scale", but not a plane most people would recognize. You could dress up a 4* or some other kit and it would pass as a "real plane" easily, and get all the aviation nuts wondering "what is it?". You can add on a cowl, change the wingtip and elevator and rudder shapes, change the canopy and turtle deck, and cover it in a "military" looking scheme, and it's amazing what you can come up with.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

How about a World Models T-34......I have one and it's a great flyer, and I see no reason why it couldn't be a 2nd plane.......not too scale, but it does have the warbird look.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I have to say I went right from my trainer to a 25 size extra. But I did it with a buddy box. Now I have about 10 different planes. Anywhere from 4*60 to a 232 cap. I am currenlty working on a 27% cap :-) This plane will not fly for a while ... Now my point :) I suggest the 4* over anything I have flown The plane flys slow when needed as well as fast... I am so impressed with it I want to buld the 4*40... Also I just put together a corsair for my dad.. He thinks he can fly it for his second plane. I think we will be on my buddy box for this one.. We will see I will let you know what I think of it as a second plane.. I do like the SPAD idea while you build your scale warbird. I think it could end up costing you 600.00 to 900.00 to make the warbird nice.. Hard to put that into the ground because of experience.

Cougar27mtr

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

The more I think about it the more I think you guys are right. When you put that 600-900 dollar value in the last past it really hit home that rushing would be a mistake. I guess I will have to go the spad or the conventional second plane route.
photoniq

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I 2nd the Lanier Stinger. These are great airplanes and if your just graduating from the trainer it will take you a long while to outgrow it.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

If you are really good with your trainer, and can buddy box the 2nd plane for a flight or 2 the Kyosho Zero sold at Tower Hobbies would be just fine. Any 2nd type plane is going to take off, respond and land faster than any trainer so why not get one that you want? I have a Midwest Zero and its the best flying plane I have. Take off is a non event. Just throttle up and steer it down the runway until it takes off by istself. It will fly the same in dead calm or 30 mph winds. Stay away from the Corsairs, and P51's. They can be tricky to land. [8D]

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I too agree that 4* is not a beauty contest material, but when done right like

http://www.renderwurx.com/rc/sig4star/

It sure has the looks, and flys great. Not scale though.

that web site inspired me and I got the following

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11...tm.htm#1233378

pretty same except the cowl. but Tom(randerwurx) has it.

you can build your own balsa cowl. I have seen someone mounting engine upside down and build a cowl arround it, which looked even better and will be easier IMO.

If you put a 46 BB engine it will be great. Today I had one of our clubs young fellow 16 btw who is the best flier by far.

He had it hovered with 46FX 11x5 do snap rolls knife edges, 4 and 8 point rolls and lots of things I even don't know but sure looked good and plane has to much to offer for me and he said he liked it((he has 46% Ultimate).

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I agree with the T-34 Mentor. Should not be a bad second plane.

Let me also throw out the Dymond Models Tiger Moth if you might want a bi-plane. It flys almost identical to my four star 60. It also looks much better in the air. Very easy on the ground. Floats on landings. Slow fly-bys at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle with a magnum 60 four stroke look and sound great. If interested it can be found here: [link=http://www.rc-dymond.com/Gas_Glow/60026Tig.htm]Tiger Moth[/link]

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

Wow - this has turned in to a BRILLIANT thread (for me at least). Thanks guys!

That 4 star with the cowl etc looks AWESOME! I think that is the way to go! A lot of people have told me I should go for one of the 'sticks'. Is the 4* as good a second plane as the sticks? I guess I need to spend A LOT more time on the trainer before moving on to the 4* than if I moved on to the sticks right? Looking at those pictures you posted it will be worth it! With the cowl it looks sweet.

Thanks,
photoniq

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

If you look arround for the best second plane polls and threads you will see that 4* is voted by majority as the best second plane.

I can't talk about sticks or any other plane other than my tariner and 4* which is my second plane and it is a lot different than flying a trainer first of all it does not have the self recovery like a trainer and you point and it goes in that direction.

I started flying 4* after 100 flights with my trainer and in most ways it is easier than flying my trainer. So when you feel ready you should be able to handle it.
Landing was easier take off was evenn better with 46FX.

Flying 4* is not a lot difficult to fly, anyone flown both stick and 4* will better comment on which is better.

I have over 40 flights with 4* and it has a lot to offer and first of all it is fun to fly, it looks better than a trainer, I will take my time with it and fly it as much as I can.

IMO when you master the trainer go with 4*.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

ok now im decided on the four star - is it a total sin to go the ARF route rather than kit building?
photoniq.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

RJV, Now YOU are talking. I don't know how difficult it is to fly, but the Chance Vought F4-U Corsair is a mean looking aircraft, and one of the greats of WWII and Korea. My favourite too and it figures somewhere in my RC flying future.

RE: Second plane (with cowl and scale looks) - does it exist?
 

I can't see how that plane can be any easier to fly than a zero (a GORGEOUS zero that is)....