Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

It seems like the exponential settings would help a student minimize the tendency to overcontrol and smooth out the learning process, but most instructors do not advise its use. Any opinions from you experienced pilots, is it for beginners? Also what are good exponential starting rates?

I have used up to 20% but it did not seem to make much difference in control response on my Futaba 6XAS. Thanks Flipstart

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

I think it would be better for a beginner to just use low rate settings on their trainer and save the expo for their more advanced planes. The simpler you can keep things when learning the better. Expo is a very nice feature though when you get into the "hotter planes".

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

Having instructed since well before buddy cords and computer (*confuser*) radios, I will offer this *opinion*. Personally, I think that a student should learn, from the first, how to 'Pressure' the sticks rather than banging them around as they do with computer games. To me, flying an airplane smoothly and positively comes from using the least amount of pressure possible for the given time element. Exponential simply leads to stick moving that gets no results then more stick moving which does lead to over-control.
On a day with gusty winds, one must learn that the time element will require faster stick applications, especially while landing and during take-offs, yet again in my opinion exponential simply aggravates that situation.
I have tried exponential a number of times, yet I do not like it either for myself or training, regardless of the flying machine.

If I could only convince these newbies how to hold the sticks -- thumb and finger -- rather than thumb on top. That is another story!! :)

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

I agree 100% with TennCharlie..

I dont really understand why this would be necessary for a student...!!

In my experience instructing, feel is the key component to the new student picking up on the concept. It seems to me that new students generally need to be weined off the Hard pull, Jerky stick video game mentality.. putting expo in a trainer may be counterproductive to a student whom you want to teach the fundamentals to...My instuctor always always always told me and other students, "just fly the sticks".....Didnt understand at the time but when I became an instructor, It all made sense...Keep it simple..

If a trainer seems to need expo, I would be more concerned about why...this isnt a general characteristic of trainers...

1) incidence problem
2) balancing problem
3) To much throw to start with..

Just my opinion...

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

If I could only convince these newbies how to hold the sticks -- thumb and finger -- rather than thumb on top. That is another story!!

I have been flying off and on for the last 1o years and have always flown with my thumbs on the tops. I assume forefinger and thumb allows for more precise control? Thumb on top just feels better for me, although I'll have to try it on the sim tonite.

Regarding expo: When someone like the above poster says "20%", does that imply -20%? I was playing with my Tx and plane last night on the floor and noticed with +20% expo the stick movement becomes less effective towards full servo deflection, while -20% provides a more neutral feel around the center of the stick, until you really pull back (eg: elevator). I would assume one would want the -20% as to be more gentle until doing something like a snap roll ot tight loop. Am I misinformed?

BTW, how do you get someone else's quote to show up in the box? I usually hit the "quote" button then paste the message. This seems to put the quote outside the box. Thanks

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

I remember trying expo when I was in the learning stage and hated it. I had a lot of difficulty in trying to land, or even fly for that matter. I was so used to putting only little movements to my flying that having to increase them to get the same result through me for a loop. (no pun intended) For now, I like to use my fingers/thumb and get the immediate response back when I move a control. It is easier for me to make small movements rather than let exp do the work. Maybe that will change in the future, but I am not even considering it at the moment.

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

I agree with everyone that expo should be left for the more "seasoned" pilot, allowing the students to gain familiarity with the normal feel of Tx stick control. I prefere to run -40% on my Futaba radios because I like my throws set up on the radical side. Expo tames down those throws around center, until I want to unleash their power at the extremes. Also allows more "flair" feel/control on landings.

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

For exponential, JR radios use + expo and Futaba & Hitech use - expo to soften the centers.

If your plane had reasonable control around center, you wouldn't need expo, would you? Also if you tend to get full control in normal flight, you'll probably find expo a little hard to get used to. I generally set my planes with greater than 45 degrees of aileron travel and about the same for elevator and rudder, if possible. I don't find them comfortable to fly without expo. Certainly if you are flying a sport or scale plane you could easily live without it.

It's like mixing. I know plenty of people in my club with computer radios that don't use expo or mixing. I just find it makes my flying more enjoyable to be able to mix out certain coupling and to fly a highly reactive airplane without concentrating on keping it right side up every second.

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

I much prefer expo to dual rates. That said, I wouldn't recommend either for training. A person should be taught to use finer, smoother movements. If they're going to grow as a pilot they'll need that fine sense of control, and many of the habbits we all have are set in place when we're first learning. Expo might seem like the easy way to help someone that's just banging the sticks, but I think it does them a disservice in the long run.

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

flipstart,
Another vote for NO expo when starting out. Most trainers should be set up with very gentle control surface movement. Any expo here would complicate the learning process. Learning with expo on a trainer will also complicate things when you are ready to move up to a "hotter" plane. Save it for later. ;)


Hossfly,
Some of the best R/C pilots in the world fly thumbs only. Chip Hyde, David Shulman, and Quique Somenzini just to name a few. I guess it's all what you get used to and feel comfortable with. :D

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

jzinckgra,
To get a quote in the box, paste it, highlight it, then click "quote".

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

I agree with that statement.

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

Stick Jammer, you're right! [X(]

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

I agree that expo is not needed and might be counter-productive for a beginner.

Personally, I love having expo on my planes, I tend to run about 50% expo and very high throws. I've tried small amounts of expo, like 15-20% and it wasn't worth the trouble.

Ed's comment about Futaba/Hitech/Polk being reverse from JR is right on, be careful about that one. I set one of my planes with 50% exp in the wrong direction when moving it from a JR to a Polk transmitter. What a surprise! (didn't crash, but it was the touchest plane I'd flown in a long time).

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

Something to note: If using a buddy cord... the TX tuned to the aircraft (held by the instructor) can have expo... and the setting is NOT passed to the buddy box.
******

The student should not be using expo or dual rates or any other crutch to change the aircraft response. You want the trainer to respond to the controls in a way that show when the student makes an error.

The primary use of Expo and dual rates is to aid in handling an aircraft that is hard to fly. Secondary is to improve precision. Unfortunately, these capabilities on modern radios are being used as a crutch supporting poor flying skills.

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

Thats funny. I fly my extra and trainers when I am helping people with my thumbs on the sticks but my helo's with thumb and forefinger. I didnt even realize I was doing it till someone pointed it out to me.

Andy

RE: Exponential for Beginners-Good Idea??
 

If you have learned to just keep your fingers on the sticks at all times you are ahead. It is very difficult to teach people to do that. I usually screw up the trims to make them keep their fingers on the controls.