? about learning to fly
 

I have an uncle from Mizzou that wants to get into flying and he bought a trainer. He doesn't have anyone to teach him to fly. I was wondering if using any of those computer programs is very successful?

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

You may want to check this thread out. It debates this very point. Pretty much most people told this guy that he would never sucede. Since he couldn't find an instructor close he tried anyway and was successful despite all the nay sayers.



[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_261073/mpage_1/key_without%252Cinstructor/anchor/tm.htm#261073]Learning without and instructor[/link]


Wings

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Some of the simulators, such as Real Flight, while not being perfectly the same as the real world, give you enough practice to readily be able to do the right things at the right times. A very large part of learning the basics to R/C flight is the ability to recognize what the plane is doing and the correct control response at the right time is to either maintain what you are doing or to correct what is going wrong.

In that sense, with enough practice, practice, practice, and practice, I believe that you CAN indeed learn to fly from a good simulator. Just don't get in a hurry to put the plane in the air for the first time. It would be better to go somewhere you can get a little help for the first few times up, especially to determine that everything is set up right. But it's not absolutely required.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

We occasionally hear of people succeeding on thier own...

We more often hear the people who tried it on thier own who took home a bag of busted balsa.

Odds are in favor of you breaking it if you don't have help... even with the simulator.

Without simulator, about 95% chance you'll break it without the aid of an instructor. With simulator that goes down to about 60%. Get an instructor to go over the plane and trim it out, and use the simulator (just one flying lesson) your odds go to 90% success. Get 10 lessons, and you have 98% chance of doing a successful solo flight.

You can't get much better than the 98%... beginners doing solo seem to want to break it for some reason.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

I flew an aerobird as my first plane. Flew it for 2 -3 months without and instructor. Then I went to an LT 40. I had many succesful flights last fall . I will agree that an instructor is best if you have one available. This is the part many people can't get throught their heads. Not everyone has access to an instructor.

I don't believe the odds are that bad. Practice with the simulator and give it a shot if you don't have access to a trainer. Don't let negative people keep you from entering the hobby. If you don't have access to an instructor I think you will have a very good chance of sucess if you use the simulator.



Wings

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

I agree. Real Flight can do wonders for someones flying skill regardless of what others may say. I had an instructor, but I was able to clip the cord pretty quick because of real flight. I say, if you cant get an instructor, go for it with the simulator, and buy cheap planes to start with :) Its important to keep in mind, during a crash, chances are the most you will lose is some sticks. The expensive stuff survives more often than not.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Well... to crash an Aerobird you just about have to try... Its in the "Toy" class of RC aircraft. Generaly they fly themselves and you push the stick to try to make it obey somewhat. Sort of semi-guided free-flight.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

You are correct! And it taught me to fly!

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

jon,

your uncle needs to do himself a favor and get a GOOD plane and a good instuctor for at least a few flights, even if he needs to travel an hour or more to do this. and also as stated the sims do help alot but dont teach you everything.

PLUS theres a BIG difference in PUCKER factor compairing a flight sim to the real thing. you WILL panic with the real thing and it will crash without at least having some buddy box time.

yes there are people who say they have soloed without any help but i will bet they had more trouble doing it than what they really tell us human nature make it sound better than it really was :)

well just my lost .02 worth good luck to your uncle whatever he does.


bassmanh

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Can free flight planes do loops? hmm not the last time I checked, lol.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Yes, use a sim and go go for it, if no instructor is available, like I did. After several weeks, my trainner is still fine.
However, what people said here is true, the panic is the most commom thing to make you crash.
I got tons of adrenaline flowing and have to say, wasn't easy to deal with it[sm=stupid.gif].
The feeling is weird, is like you being inside that flying model, like your life being in risk, very weird![sm=surprised.gif]

Nilo

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Got to Wal-Mart... get one of the 4.5 ft foam hand toss gliders. Set the elevatro as shown in the instructions for loops. One proper toss... it'll do up to 4 loops. ($5... put a radio in it later.. they are fun for a demo-derby slope combat.:D Lots of pieces of foam when you get done:eek: bring the packing tape.)

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

And if you have to go at it alone, get the fma autopilot or the futaba pilot assist. They really do work. and if it saves ONE crash it pays for it's self.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

I thought myself, If you are set on doing so, remember babysteps.

I started off with an overpowered trainer (balsa usa stick 40 w/ an OS .61 engine. I crashed it twice (one time taxing) then i finally got it. I had many planes in line so i decied tha after one flight to go to the next plane. This time a glider, got me more used to distinguishing where the plane was. Then a delta wing came next, was proud of the first flight even though it was rough at first. Then i just alternated from there. I taugh my self reaction times in a simulator, and maybe rc car helped? At least with opposite controls when facing you. I was also relaxed too. I had a "intro" flight a year before and i just said "I can do this"

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

b17flyer or anyone else,
Could you please go into more detail (cost, how it works) about the fma autopilot and the other one that you described. I've never heard of them.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Have you ever flown an aerobird? I am sure anyone who has flown it will agree that it is more difficult to fly than most glow trainers. But, its durable so you can crash it.


Yes, it is a toy, as is all RC planes. How many people who have flown an aerobird thinks this is hillarious?

Obviously hasn't flown one, yet feels the need to comment.


Wings

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

I'm just getting back into planes after a long absence, primarily for my teeneage son's benefit (yeah, right!) We bought RealFlight and it is very useful if nothing else but to remind me how hard I have to concentrate on maintaining the correct orientation, particularly when its coming towards you.

My son has no problems whatsoever. It just comes naturally. I put it down to the "Playstation Generation" They just seem to have a more natural sence of perspective having sat for hours on end bashing at those joypads.

First time out with our trainer he just flew it, no problems, no mishaps. It just didn't seem like a big deal to him (even when I was screaming at hime to slow down). Maybe his R/C car experience has helped - but even I can cope with them.

When we, the fortysomethings and older were kids there was nothing like Playstations, Flight Sims etc. Your first R/C experience really was like nothing else you had undertaken.

25 years ago getting into R/C was a major investment. My son's attitude, "even if I total it, a new ARTF is cheap anyway" How times have changed.

Not having any instruction isn't going to stop my son from getting out there and enjoying himself and probably with reasonable success to boot.

As for me................

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

FHHuber: My $0.02 worth: The Aerobird is far from a toy and it certainly does not fly itself. Having taught myself how to fly with this plane and this plane alone (as in no instructor or software to help), this plane was an awesome trainer. I am more than qualified to say, this plane will take a decent pounding, as you learn your lefts from your rights. My 11 year video jockey, couldn't fly the bird, even with me hanging over his shoulders. I'm also sure that flight simulation software would have saved me some serious $$$, as it took some time for me to get the hang of flying the real thin................buy me a drink and I'll tell you how many wings, bodies and props I've been through in the process!!

Andy
for more Aerobird fun: http://home.ptd.net/~steprman/

RE: ? learning to fly
 

[:-] I recently got a FireBird Commander XL, my first plane. The 1st flight was unsucessful-lost it 2 miles away:( Luckly found the next day-problem was high winds aloft- but now i'm nervous about flying again.-Is this a hard plane to fly? I'm brand new to RC planes- thanks for any help[X(]

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Interesting assessment. I have never seen the Aerobird characterized that way. Have you been flying one long?

RE: ? learning to fly
 

No, it is a very easy plane to fly.

You did not say how it got 2 miles away, but I suspect you let it get down wind from you. What do you estimate the wind speed was where you were flying?

Here are some tips.


A critical piece of advice to you and to all two channel pilots. Respect the
wind! REALLY RESPECT THE WIND!!!!!

These planes either have throttle and rudder or throttle and differential
thrust, which does about the same thing.

If you fly on a windy day you have a very high probability of losing the
plane. Why, because you have no way to fight the wind. If the plane gets
down wind from you, and it will, here is what happens. You hit the power to
fight the wind, but these planes climb when you hit the power, so instead of
coming back to you, they climb and as they climb, the wind pushes the plane
further away.

A very very experience two channel pilot can work around this through a series
of maneuvers called the death spiral. However, this is a difficult thing to
control for a new pilot. There is a fellow in our club who has lost two
Firebird Commanders to the wind. I even lost an Aerobird because I did not
know to push the nose down to dive into the wind at the time. It was my first
flight.

Now, when the wind is mild to moderate, 2-5 mph, he is very very good with
this plane. However he is still pretty new, maybe 15 flights, and has not
learned how to handle this plane in the wind.

A three channel plane with elevator control can push the nose down and dive
into the wind to come back. So, don't fly your rudder/elevator or diff thrust
plane in wind over 5 MPH until you are very good with the plane. Don't get
over 7 MPH until you can easily fight your way back from a down wind position.

TIP

For the Firebird, II, XL, Fighterbird and Commander, if you put a popsicle stick under the back of the wing, it lowers the angle of attack of the wing and the plane will not climb
as much on power application. If you learn to manage the plane well, this can
give you better penetration into the wind, but it still will not let you put
the nose down into the wind.

Here are links to the intro videos for two of these planes:

Firebird Commander
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_mod...ander_high.wmv

Firebird Outlaw
http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_mod...utlaw_high.wmv

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Yes I have flown an Aerobird. Straight out of the box (assisting a fresh beginner) hand launched the aerobird and gave a touch of right then let go... it did 5 full circles climbing hands off. Thats about as close to free flight as you can get...

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

OK, you are an experience pilot helping a new flyer with the aerobird.

Yes, I think it is a great plane and love mine. After 100+ flights it comes to the field with me regardless of what other planes I birng.

It is just that most raw/new pilots are not that successful because they don't know enough to let the plane fly.

It is a great plane!

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

You say the aerobird is a toy and well, you're right. And anything you've ever flown yourself is also a toy. You see, REAL airplanes are used pretty much for transportation or work and any plane that serves no useful purpose other than PLAYING with is nothing more than a TOY. Sorry folks. Yeah they're expensive and can be dangerous but that only makes them expensive and dangerous TOYS.

I could uncoil a slinky and gouge both of your eyes out and it wouldn't change the fact it's a toy.

Got it now? Real planes are tools. Model planes are toys.

You're not crop dusting, fire-fighting,searching and rescuing, transporting, or anything else REAL airplanes do. You're PLAYING.

Now if say you're flying an RC heli as a aerial photography business like some people (not me) then it's no longer a toy, but a tool.

Now that that's out of the way...

You would probably be the first to praise the Slow Stick as the greatest thing since sliced bread (and I love mine) but hate to tell ya, the Aerobird is more of a challenge than the SS any day. It's pretty fast. It's wing feels like a piece of oak compared to the flimsy SS or any other GWS wing. It's tough and has a cool airplane like throaty sound to it.

That said, I don't fly mine much anymore. Because:

I hate the fact I can't take off from the ground because of the V-tail.
It takes way more room to fly than the SS or Beaver.

Why step on other people's buzz?

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

I place the Aerobird (and similar planes) in the "toy" class for one reason... it is all too often purchased as a toy for a 7 to 10 year old who is not going to be getting any help. It gets abused.... overcontrolled and smashed into a tree or into some neighbor. It is TREATED as a toy.

You read the warning labels in the airplane's instructions... it warns that you need assistance to learn to fly the thing. (Yes its in there)

Even the $20 Cox/Estes "Sky Rangers (the ultimate low cost RC flying "toys" ) have the admonition in the instructions that its not really a toy... But thats the way they are treated by the people buying them.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Prudent comments from a very experienced pilot.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Wings has decided to contradict and put down anything I say. ia m now simply going to report every such posting to the moderators with no response to him. will simply repeat this warning message... listen to Wings at your own risk. He's dangerous.

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Just requoted what you posted. Is that dangerous?

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Well... to crash an Aerobird you just about have to try... Its in the "Toy" class of RC aircraft. Generaly they fly themselves and you push the stick to try to make it obey somewhat. Sort of semi-guided free-flight. First you say you cant crash it. You read the warning labels in the airplane's instructions... it warns that you need assistance to learn to fly the thing. (Yes its in there) Then you say you need to read the instructions. Which one is correct?

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Both...

If you read the instructions... its a very simple thing to fly.

If you ignore the instructions, and treat it as a toy you are going to break it. (like tha average 7 yr old will handle it)

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

Yep! If you treat it like a toy then it will get broken.

Of course it should not be treated that way or used that way. I think the box says 12 and older. I am 50, so I guess when I bought mine I qualified.

Now I have 8 toys ranging from the Aerobird to a 3 meter Sailplane.

I love my toys. They are so much fun. Only difference now is if I break 'em, I gotta fix 'em or pay to replace 'em.

Ah for the simpler days!


( Daddy ... sniff .. by an accident the tree hit my plane and broke it. sob sob! You get me a new one Daddy?)

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

LOL

:eek:obey the age suggestions on the box?[X(] Can't have that![:@][:'(]

That would be kind of like... obeying the instructions about which engine is appropriate... and we all KNOW the planes just CAN'T fly that way.:eek:

:D

(There's 2 or 3 points in this sarcasm...:eek:)

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

jonw55 ,

After reading your question about learning to fly without the aid of an instructor and seeing the usual RCU debate on "toy" vs "real" model airplane I'll stay out of that particular debate (I think most know my personal feelings concerning the bird series of planes;))

Learning to fly without an instructor boils down to this

1. Expense. Can you afford to replace all or parts of the model multiple times if neccessary in order to learn how to fly.

2. Frustration. Will you become frustrated and quit before learning to fly if your flight time per outing is measured in seconds and your first stop after leaving the field is to the hobby shop for another plane or more spare parts.

If the answer to question one is YES and the answer to question two is NO then I say go for it and ignore all advice here untill you have tried it for yourself then you can report your findings here and we can start another chapter in the Learning to fly without an instructor saga:D

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

missed this question earlier about FMA Co-pilot

FMA Direct
http://www.fmadirect.com/site/fma.ht...roducts&cat=29

Take a look at these links for inof on the Co-Pilot
http://www.hobby-warehouse.com/copfligstabs.html

Do a search on yahoo or similar engine on FMA Co-Pilot review and you get several hits

RE: ? about learning to fly
 

The Co-Pilot and the Futaba equivilent (and now the device from hobbico in the Nextstar) can make learning both easier and harder.

They are useful in that they help the aircraft to remain level, or to get back to level quickly just by letting go of the sticks. They can save your airplane almost as well as the instructor.

The co-pilot can't see the tree you are about to hit:eek:

The co-pilot also won't help you figure out which way to turn to get that little spot to start heading back toward you instead of away....)

The Co-pilot also can't tell upright from inverted...[X(] If yuo got it REALLY messed up, and let go of the sitck, the plane could end up flying level, upside down (with a trainer that means descending VERY fast.. roll quick or its going to hit the dirt.)

You can also end up deendant on the thing to constantly correct your errors... you simply never learn to properly fly the airplane, so you never progress to the type of flying you really want to do. This is similar to the student on the buddy box who just won't ever solo, because he is too busy doing "tricks" to learn to fly level.

The last is all to common with those who are between 10 and 14... [>:]unless the instructor takes over at the start of every loop or roll.[>:] ( "Fly level around the pattern or not at all kid!"[:@] ) But you have to let the kid do some of the loops... or he loses interest[&:] ( I HAVE taught a few kids a little about flying...;) )

****

These things are tools. You can use them and they can assist you. You can abuse them... and you will not gain the experience you need to become a better pilot.