Simple training quaifications
 

Because many clubs (and non-club flyers...) have no set guide of basic qualification of a student to solo... here's an example that may be helpful. Its one of the most basic sign-off sheets you will find.

They did leave off two things that I consider mandatory.. stalls and spin recovery.

********************

Pilot Proficiency Check-off Sheet
Mentor Area Radio Control Society, Inc

Club Member´s Name: _________________________________
AMA Number: __________________
Instructors:
_____________________________________
_____________________________________
_____________________________________
_____________________________________

Just as in full-size planes, MARCS club members must be qualified by an instructor in order to fly “solo” at the club flying field. The most important reason is safety - both for the pilot and for the other club members at the field. While flying your airplane, your instructor is responsible for maintaining safe flight operations. However, be aware: crashes and accidents are inevitable regardless of who is flying -- so your instructor cannot be held liable for damage that may occur to your plane during training flights.

MARCS strongly recommends the “buddy box” system for flight training but instructors are free to use whatever training method they prefer. Futaba and JR/Hitec buddy boxes are available at the field. Students are encouraged to train with the instructor they prefer. Instructors are listed in the club newsletter and on the web site www.mentorrc.com.

Instructor is to check off the following:

STEP 1 ________

Club member has and understands the MARCS Bylaws, and the Flying Rules.
Club member understands the radio impound and frequency control system.
Club member has and understands the AMA safety code.

STEP 2 ________

Aircraft and the radio installation has been checked to verify that the aircraft has been properly constructed, the controls are set up properly, and it is safe to fly.
Name of aircraft and engine size: ____________________________________

STEP 3 ________

Radio equipment checked for proper operation. Range check performed.
Verify narrow-band transmitter. Frequency Pin#: ___________

STEP 4 ________

Aircraft test-flown by an instructor. Adjustments completed, if needed, to the flight controls (trim) and the engine, to obtain proper performance.

STEP 5 ________

Pilot´s flight training with instructor. Suggested skills to check off:
a) Controlled level flight, controlled turns (orientation), throttle management
b) Horizontal figure-eight in both directions, while maintaining altitude & control
c) Loop / Roll
d) Safe takeoff (using rudder)
e) Traffic pattern approach and safe landing
f) Solo flight to demonstrate above


SIGN OFF: ____________________________

DATE: ____________________________

QUALIFIED FOR: (circle one)

Class A: Trainer Aircraft (high wing) up to 0.60 CID

Class B: Mid-wing/Low-wing/Bipe (High-Performance) up to 1.20 CID

Class C: All types and aircraft over 1.20 CID

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Nice list FHH, I'll pin it to the top

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Hard to test spin recovery if a trainer is so hard to spin .... ;-)

gus

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

We have a similar system. Each student gets a personal log on heavy-stock paper (the size of a 8-1/2x11 sheet, folded in half). Inside are the field rules (so there can be no doubt) and the back cover is a list of manuevers and techniques similar to those noted above with a row of boxes for instructors to initial, date, and grade (score of 1, 2 or 3 - did not exibit the skill, completed poorly, satisfactory).

We also check dB's of the student's plane.

There have been some interesting episodes where guests claiming proficiency have cleared the peanut gallery benches of even the slowest moving spectators. Our bylaws provide several means of grounding unsafe flyers, and we have a handful of buddy boxes (and usually a trainer) available for help or as a means of testing as needed. The range safety officer has the final say. New members are 'probationary' at a discounted rate for six months and after that they have full rights if voted in. A probationary flyer cannot fly alone (unless he left his car at the gate and walked his gear up to the field and flies without a frequency pin - a rule violation in itself), but each new member is assigned two mentors and loaner-mentors are available.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Note... this isn't from one of my local area clubs. (I don''t even know where this club is...:eek:) Its just the simplest yet reasonably complete forms I have found. These guys obviously put some thought into it.:D

You can at least simulate a spin with a trainer (holding full up, full aileron and full rudder at low power) and get the student used to releasing the sticks while addig power for recovery nto a dive... add a touch of up elevator and reduce power to complete the recovery. (this works with almost any airplane... some you have to give down elevator and opposite rudder to recover from a spin.)

Skipping spins and stalls... the student may not know what to do in a stall on take-off.

We could add all kinds of other stuff... We could come up with a full proficiences development program. (but that belongs elsewhere...)

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I think that form is from http://www.mentorrc.com in Perry Ohio

We have 3 pilot qualification levels at our club. Here's a link to them:

http://www.radiodrone.net/power_pilo...ion_progra.htm


- Joe

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I was reading the checklist, a LOOP and a ROLL?
How about some stall, and unusual attititude recovery?
Loops are a matter (for most trainers) of pulling back on the stick, who's gonna be the judge of a good loop? Rolls? With a trainer? It's easier to roll a "second plane" than a trainer.
Of course I am just wondering, these two in particular don't seem to be "good criteria" for solo-ing.

Jetts

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

dang
never mind it was just sarcastic...Rog

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

At our club it's the same guys that judge F3As. You ever look closely at a 50 ft. loop? Getting a trainer to do a large, symmetrical loop takes throttle and elevator management, and can even call for rudder to keep it from walking off the original heading if you didn't call the wind square on. Probably half of the typical trainers can't do it at all without diving to get enough momentum, and you have to battle the dihedral over the top. Most of our school instructors also fly pattern, and they can be frustratingly critical.

It's easy to draw a circle. It's near impossible to draw a perfect circle.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I'm sure that any list like this could be picked-over to death.

Keep in mind that it is just a basic guideline.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I was thinking of the same thing. LOOPS AND ROLLS? Not to mention one even has to be proficient at FA3 or be TOC modeler just to solo a trainer? Sounds more like a hazing ritual to me.

The focus of the solo requirement should be on safety and minimal proficiency.

As long as one can demonstrate reasonable control of the model during climb, descend plus able to enter pattern and do 3 completely unassisted landings and takeoffs. Most importantly, one should exercise reasonable judgement and know when to dump a plane rather that trying to save it should it become unsafe to do so. Solo means one can fly the model unassisted, and it is just the beginning point to learn something more challenging, nothing more.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Loops and rolls are the easiest way to see if a novice pilot has reasonable control of orientation. They don't have to be FAI/AMA pattern quality, it just shows an ability to handle unusual attitudes. It also demonstrates confidence. I once knew a guy that nearly had a heart attack every time he did a roll or a loop. HE QUIT the hobby because that was too much stress! Yes, SIMPLE loops and rolls are a good thing in an evaluation program. Funny no one has addressed a simulated dead stick either

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Wow! You guys are strict! At our club all we require is a few successful unassisted landings for a student to go solo. One rule we do have is that use of a buddy box during training is mandatory. We've seen too many accidents from transmitter swapping.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I always want to see the airplane upside down at least once with the student in control. I'm not too picky on how they get there, but I want to see an exit back to upright flight in a controlled manner. If the student wants to do a spilt-s, that's fine. I tend to teach a loop and roll, then a split-s just along the way to "spice things up", so it's usually a non-issue. But if a student can't handle being upside down with out panic, they aren't ready to fly un-assisted, IMHO.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I just went and read the sheet more carefully.

I also agree that stalls need to be covered. (I'm less concerned about spins, most models won't enter a spin unless you do it intentionally, more common is a stall to a spiral dive to the ground, not an actual spin. The key thing to stress here is "airspeed first, pull the elevator back second", IMHO)

I happen to disagree with their splitting of models in to those with engines below 1.2cui and those above. Flying bigger models doesn't mean you're a better pilot, just one with more money. (and, if anything, the larger planes are easier to fly)

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Well: We dont have a check off sheet at our club.
But once they have competed the requirements from our instuctors
they are ready to fly upside down and side ways LOL.
Our requirements our much more strengent. But the list is a good place
to start.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

;)

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

The two things I'd add to your list are:

"Take-off, fly circuit and land from both directions (of main runway)" Our field requires different landing approaches depending on wind direction... it's amazing how much anguish arises when a wind shift comes along and people are forced to land from the "wrong" direction.

and

"Successfully (ie no major damage) demonstrate the ability to perform a dead stick landing." This need not be during the "wings test", but the student should be able to handle a dead stick. This skill could be demonstrated by a student landing deadstick on the buddy box prior to the wings test. I'm personally not keen on the idea of forced deadsticks(ie shut down engine in flight on purpose) during a wings test, but if required I suppose the instructor could simulate this by letting the student fly the pattern and (when the instructor figures it's safe to do so) telling the student to bring the throttle to idle and land without touching it again. I realize idle/deadstick approaches and landings will be different due to the idle thrust of the motor, but it's a decent way of practicing without risking the student's pride and joy unnecessarily.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I am wanting to start something like this at my club but most are not interested.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Some of these are good, but some are too strict to check off a newbie. Come on, if I have to make some of our pilots loop and roll to get certified, they'd leave. Plus, we have a limited amount of time and instructors. We want to still make this a hobby, not a job. That is why we only expect the basics, just like in a full size (except spin recovery). Can the student take off, fly both a left and right pattern, and land? Can they recover from a stall? Can they recover when losing an engine on takeoff? Losing an engine and deadstick? Touch and go's? Recover from a missed approach? Orientation of the aircraft when flying towards themselves. Cross wing landings, and proper communication between themselves, their spotter, and other pilots.

Scott

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

If you present the loop and roll as a "requirement" and let them figure out how to deal with it, then it's stressful and a "bad thing".

If you just say "hey, how about doing a loop this flight?" and telling them how, it's a fun thing thrown in to releive the "boredom" of flying in the same box pattern over and over. Same with the roll. I want to see some kind of upside down acrobatics, but I don't make a big deal out of it, I just teach it along the way. Heck, most students ask how to do them anyway.

My club does require three "simulated dead sticks" with the engine set to idle by the instructor when they aren't expecting it. The first, I make easy, lots of altitude, good location, etc. The last, I make harder, sometimes I make it impossible to reach the field, I let the student set up for an off-field bush landing, then power out of it. I use it to teach the "ok, you aren't going to make it, now what" type thinking.

We also require take off and landing from both directions. I like to see, but don't require at least a little cross-wind flying, since it's common at my field. (really, it's not common for a student to do enough approaches and landings to be comfortable with out doing it in a crosswind at least some around here).

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

We have a PQS (Personnel qualification standard) at Fentress that every prospective pilot must complete before he can fly solo. The form is then countersigned by the base OIC. It's pretty basic, and stresses safety more than anything. It's really just a way to make sure that you can safely handle your plane on the ground and in the air, and know how to work the pattern and where to fly for your type a/c. It also weeds out the yahoos. I remember before that PQS was set up, we wound up with a pattern ship stuck in the side of a pickup truck, because the guy at the sticks had no clue, was flying an aircraft way over his skill level, and was flying where he shouldn't.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

Being new here I don't want to come off as a complete rebel (partial rebel) but IMHO I have to say OMG(osh) this is over kill. A modified line from Pirates of the Carabean, Those that can fly and those that can't, done. Why does it have to be so complicated with so many guildines, rules, restrictions, etc, etc, etc? My buddy taught me to fly and I taught my 10 year old son. It doesn't take that much effort and common sense to safely learn, but all this talk make it sound like a PHD is required. Again I don't mean to offened or disrespect and this is just my opnion but it's really not that complicated to learn to safely fly. All these rules appear to be just another example of living in the US where we have a rule for evething to protect ourself from ourself and a fence around everything so we can't get in or out. Only the US is obsessed with the rule-fest we have here. Americans love to make rules.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

"All these rules appear to be just another example of living in the US where we have a rule for evething to protect ourself from ourself and a fence around everything so we can't get in or out."

I thought we were talking about club policies here.

Two words: "litigation" & "safety." 98% of the people in this country are thoughtful, careful, polite and considerate. Well, better make that 89% . . . A string of accidents would lose your group their flying field in a very short time. No one cares if you're alnoe in your back yard.

Nobody wants to catch a LT-40 upside the head while prepping their plane in the pit area.

Our club is 'officered' by a group of older and heavily capitalized pattern fliers. They get nervous of parking a $6,000 plane beside someone of unknown credentials. It is enlightened self-interest that the field rules have been ammended to restrict 'solo' flight to those that have demonstrated proficiency. Once it's known that you can taxi, takeoff and land without endangering anyone, and appear to be able to keep the plane relatively in front of you and not over the pits, parking lot or pavilian you're on your own.

Still no law against flying your own plane your own way wherever you have permission. This is still America. But at our field you obey the field rules. It's a busy place. Lots of people there to help you or be endangered by you. If you're out in an alfalfa field and there's not a house, car, bystander, dog or powerline nearby it just doesn't really matter much to anyone but you whether the plane is in control or not.

One nice written & official rule we have is that a pilot can ask to be the only plane in the air for their first solo. Same for a first flight on a new or newly repaired plane. Sometimes you just need a little less bustle around you.

RE: Simple training quaifications
 

I agree with Charlie. My club has over 200 members. People do the stupid things, so anything you can do to ensure that someone isn't going to plant their plane in to the pits or parking lot is a good thing.

Our overfly zone is actually only 300 yards or so from I-95, and we border on a couple of other busy local roads. (you can see the planes in the air from the highway if you know where to look). We've had to take precautions to prevent some yahoo from putting a plane down on I-95. One guy actually did crash a plane on the far side of the highway once. Just once though. So there's no way we're going to turn loose someone who can't control their plane, it's just way to easy for them to hury someone or cause us to loose the field.