Teaching yourself to fly
 

Ok, first off I'm not going to recommend that anyone go out and try to learn to fly on your own unless you meet a couple of basic requirements. First, you should have a lot of basic aviation back ground, ie. private pilot lic. or a&p lic or control line experience and some/lots of flight sim time. It wouldn't hurt to have built several kits before either. You also need to understand the dangers involved and it wouldn't hurt to have a healthy home owners insurance policy, just in case. You must understand that you WILL crash, and that it will cost you money when you do. Next you must choose a plane that can take some abuse, you need one that will bounce instead of breaking. A few months ago I started building the RCM advanced trainer from plans that I blew up on my computer from the magazine article. I basically started from scratch and made every wooden part. Well of course my wife could tell how much time I had into the plane and just before I had it finished she started to ask the dreaded question, "What happens if you crash it?" I would just stare at her and say, "I'm not going to crash. I'll be real careful". But in the back of mind it would eat at me, what if I crash? Well, I thought about it a lot and finally came up with a plan. I decided to buy one of the indestructable trainers to fly for awhile before risking all my hard work. I did some looking around and decided to get the Aircore 40 trainer. It looks more like a real plane than the Dura trainer and that aluminum fuselage looks weak. The Aircore is made out of plastic that looks like cardboard and is real tough stuff. The build up is different than anything I had ever done before but it was pretty easy. The first day I went out to fly I taxied it around for awhile until I got used to how it handled on the ground. Then I made a few short hops into the air and right back down. Then I decided to try to take it up and fly it. I took off just fine and made it half way around a circle. I was so thrilled to have it up that I wasn't paying close enough attention to what I was doing. Of course you all know what happened next, I got the controls crossed up in my head and nose it over and plowed it into the ground. The plane hit the ground on a concrete pad from about 30 feet. The impact broke the muffler off of my MDS .48 and broke the prop. The muffler is toast and the mount for it on the cylinder is broke off too. The motor still runs fine but I can't pressurize the fuel tank now. The plane on the other hand suffered almost no damage at all. It has a couple scuff marks on it and I had to straighten out the landing gear a little. I also had to patch a small area where the wooden dowl for the rubber bands goes through the fuselage. The impact also pushed the motor and power cartridge back into the fuselage about an inch. I only had to drilled new holes for the mounting screws to fix that. Total repair time for the airframe was about 20 minutes. The crash would have shattered any balsa trainer into useless toothpicks. The next time I went out to fly I slammed into the ground a couple of times on landing. I kept it wheels down every time but I put it down real hard twice. Both times with the help of a nasty cross wind gust and the second time to keep it from hitting me when a gust blew it toward me while landing. I have also had one dead stick crash landing and the plane still fly's just fine, this is one tough bird. I now have about a dozen flights on the Aircore. It flys much better than I do but I'm catching up fast. I would recommend this airplane to anyone who wants to learn on their own. I don't think you could break it even in a full speed dive to the dirt. I'm still probably 20 or more flights from risking a flight with my scratch built trainer. And I think I better buy a new motor and muffler first so I don't have that fuel starvation problem when I have to pull up hard and hit the throttle to miss the trees at the edge of my runway when I come in to land and my approach isn't quit right. Teaching yourself to fly isn't easy but at least I don't have anyone standing over my shoulder confusing me, and I am learning to fly, and havin' a blast. I may eventually join a club, but the closest one is 50 miles away. I dont know how I would feel about flying if I had taken my balsa trainer out that first day. I think I would still be cryin' the blues, and I know I would still be working on repairs, or starting over with on a whole new plane.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

If you fly em...you will crash em...that's the rule. You might find your learning curve a little sharper, and the fun factor a little greater if you could somehow get into that club you mentioned. Heck...I drive about an hour and a half roundtrip myself. It's worth it. Now... I do live 5 min away from Scobee field...but I sometimes make the drive to another field.

Get some "flying" buddies and you will enjoy the hobby more and learn a lot faster too. This will lead to fewer crashes...money saved...more FUN!

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

The club I belong to is over 60 miles away. The fellowship with the other members is worth it though. Those guys have taught me little ticks about building and flying. I have gotten to see all kinds of models and engines ,some I would like to try others you could'nt give me. The flying is just a part of the hobby.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

all that is bs to speak clearly; 1st, me dad is a flight captain with over 28000h in logged flight time and he can't fly rc planes, and 2nd, it wont help you become a better RCpilot because you've built a couple of kits...[>:]

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

lets not jump the guy right off okay, first thing he said was "I dont recommend anybody doing this" so lets not pick out a sentence or 2 and pick him apart, congrats Todd ,,not the way most people do it but, if it works for you...than good luck with it...Rog

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

First time i flew was bymyself. I took off, flew around, landed. I took off again flew around, crashed on landing! I went out, bought a pt-40 ARF transfered all my stuff into that, joined a club, got an instructor. 5 flight later i was soloing. now i instruct a small group of "renegades" and we have a ball!

sean

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Basic aviation background hpefully equals a basic understanding of lift, drag, how control surfaces work, etc and would be relevent experience for RC flight if not 100% applicable techniques wise. How can a basic understanding of these ideas be bad for RC flight? My uncle is a FS pilot and flies FS regularly, but he is a disaster on the RC sticks. I'm of the Atari generation and the physical dexterity and mental demands of putting yourself "in" the plane come easy, but when I started I lacked the understanding of the physics involved.

Secondly, as Aeronaut said, if you fly you will crash. For many people, that ARF is basically a "black box" inside and when crashed they don't have a clue where to start repairs. If you have built several kits, at least you should have a basic understanding of how a typical airframe is assembled, allowing you to understand the damage and do some basic planning on what repairs might be needed.

Rog is right, don't jump the new guys cause they are new. Attitudes like that detract from the hobby rather than enhance it. If I posted in the beginner forums, I don't expect to be belittled because I'm new. [steps down from his soapbox]

Welcome to the hobby Todd. Hope you have fun.
Duke

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

As stated, it doesn't help to belittle the originator. Most will disagree with people telling others to try on their own. Some can do it, most can't. A good sim will help a ton. The problem is you tell someone to go try it on their own for what ever reason, they decide they don't want someone else telling them what to do so they go try it, and they ruin the engine, or radio, or plane because they don't know what they were doing. The other thing they could do is get a finger in the prop or crash down on someone and hurt them like the bonehead that said he flew into the Kmart store trying to learn in the lot or the one that tried in a 45 + knot wind.

Instructors are not monsters trying to rule you. They are people that are trying to help save you time and money. If you don't care what your plane looks like and don't mind flying with an engine that you tore the muffler off and the mounts off within a flight or two, by all means, go somewhere secluded and try it. If you really want to learn the hobby and get good, Get some help and learn it right. Why re-invent everything already known about the hobby when so many good people are willing to help you and save you time, money, frustration and everything else.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Back in the bad ol days we taught ourselves by progressing from freeflight (rubber and then glow fuel) to powered glider. If you can get a model to fly well in free-flight you understand aerodynamics and flight trim (or you don't get it up at all, or back).

A lightly powered glider allows things to happen much slower.

When was the last time you read or were told to hand launch a model without the engine running to judge flight trim? There's a lot to be said for the old method of progression through stages instead of instant ARF gratification with a snarly, (relatively) powerful airplane. A good computer flight simulator should start with a pile of balsa that you must click and drag to assemble the model; and begin again at that stage after every crash.

I've been working with a bunch of Explorers in building LT-40s for an 'engineering' project. One of the guys in my team asked me to help him with a plane he bought last summer. He hasn't been able to start the engine yet! There's a lot to this hobby that happens before your thumbs ever mount the joysticks.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

And pain inducers for when the CA runs down to where you're holding the wood togeather or when you cut yourself.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Thanks for all of the support guy's. I do plan on joining the local club, I just had to get the basics down on my own. The challenge is at least half of the fun for me. I'm not worried about having to spend a few bucks for my learning curve. I figure that if your going to get involved in any kind of hobby or sport you better be prepared to pay for it. If I only had enough money to buy one plane and one motor and one radio I would be a fool to ever even try to get started, but thats not the case. I don't have money to burn but I can afford a new motor, 80 bucks ain't much to spend for the fun you get out of it. Heck my brother in law spends more than that going to watch a stupid basketball game. I'm not going to let people like Blue Moon bother me either, he just doesn't get it. A basic aviation background will insure that you know how and why a plane fly's. Building a few kits teaches someone what a plane is and how it's put together. He also doesn't understand the American way. The philosophy of "get out of my way and let me try!". That whole American attitude of " I can do that", "American know how and ingenuity". But I wont put him down, he's a Swede, he probably thinks there should be some kind of Government program to teach you to fly. If you want to try it on your own get the Aircore, It will survive and let you try again without having to spend weeks making repairs. You just crash it and then when you stop shaking, you refuel and try it again. I do have a couple questions for you more experience guys out there. I bought several wooden props figuring that they would save some airframe damage from prop strikes. I use a chicken stick with a rubber hose on it but I keep breaking the props while trying to start the motor. Is a .48 to big to use wooden props and a chicken stick? or am I doing something wrong here? The motor kicks back real hard sometimes and when it does the prop gets broke. I have been stuck using plastic props but really want to use wooden ones when I fly my Balsa trainer. My second question is about fuel tank pressurization and my broken muffler. Am I right in my thinking that the lack of pressurization will cause starvation in steep climbs and quick maneuvers? but should still run OK if I fly it mostly level and don't try to do anything fancy? Thanks again guys.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Todd,

Good job! Looks like you will probably do pretty well. I have to say that I don't like when people tell me that I had to get an Instructor, in was rather annoying. I did end up getting an Instructor in the long run, because I do not really want to spend the money that it takes to learn on my own. I am confident that I could do it. But I know that I would have broken at least one something.

When I spotted you topic here, I expected to see MANY people beating up on you for not getting an Instructor; that is what happens alot. But I think that your attitude is right. I personally have NO problem with someone learning on their own, as long as they are a long way from other people. Before I went to the local club, I did not have any knowledge of how far, fast, and dangerous a gas powered airplane was. Before I went to the local club, I was contemplate flying on my own albeit brefily. I would have gone to the local state park, that has large amounts of room in it. I would have flown at a square half mile worth of land on the edge of the park road. Knowing what I do know, I would NEVER do that. The are several reasons that I would try to get someone to go to an Instructor urgently... meaning I might tell everyone "It is easier to go with an Instructor than without" but some people I would say "Don't try to fly without someone". Here are the people:

1.) Young (10 year old) with not much experiance of anything with an engine let alone a plane
2.) Someone in an Urban enviroment - with not alot of space and lots of potential propterty/people to hurt/damage and or kill
3.) An older person who has not grown up with video/computer games and do not have the same hand eye co-ordenation that the younger generation has
4.) Last but not least... someone with not alot of money. You need money if you go on your own... money to handle crashes

I do not think you fit under any of those cases (or at least you do not appear to from my view point)

P.S. please let no one misunderstand me that those cases I stated are the ONLY ones who need instruction, I just think those are the ones who need it the most. :)

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

I think an arguement could be made that the reason why nobody is beating up on him is because the experienced folk have gotten tired of responding to these types of threads and choose not to respond!!:D

I personally used to respond to these threads more for the sake of the "other" newbies reading then the guy who started it because that person has already made up their mind.

Quite frankly put who cares whether you learned on your own or with an instructor. I think the whole point is to learn not how you learned but each to there own:D

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Tired or not why should anybody beat up on him? Great if he learn on his own. I'd recomend an instructor and I agree it's not for everybody but some can or are willing to try. More power to 'em if they pull it off. Has this become a world of absolutes? You must have an intructor or you will burn in hell?

I care.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Whenever this topic comes up and someone disagrees there opinion automatically seems to be classified as "beating" up.;)

Yes I've seen a few members cross the line... But hey, most threads here contain some amount of verbal sparring:D


IMHO This place is first and foremost used for entertainment and secondly as a resource for help.

Every post generates some many opinions on the "correct" way to do something who can tell which way is right..

Case in point do a search on the best trainer....

There was a poll in here that had the new Nextstar rated 1st or 2nd something like two weeks after its release
(i.e. before most people were posting on its performance) yet for some strange reason many picked it ;)

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Entertainment. I hear ya. I think I should remember this the next time I read something by The Rule Makers Club.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Now you are getting the idea.... I while back somebody posted asking how to check the model's C.G. Two weeks later they're recommending planes to another member:D:D

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

On your tank pressure question, on some of my planes I run the pressure line from the tank to just behind the prop. I take a fuel filter that screws together, unscrew it, take half put it in the line and mount it solid just behind the prop off of the engine mount. I put copper tube in it to make it stiff and give me a way to mount it. The ram air from the prop pressurizes the tank. I have done that on quite a few pattern birds with large tanks and pipes and have never had one lean in climbs and stuff. It works really well. Might try that on the one with the broken muffler.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Yeah, what Flyboy said about the tank,, we do that in 1/2a too, put the vent tube facing into the prop wash will keep the tank pressurized....Rog

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Me and my dad taught ourselves how to fly. We started off with a 2-channel Firebird, then a Sky Scooter, Soarstar then an Avistar. We crashed and burned the Firebird, sky scooter. Soarstar has some crashes but repairable. But the Avistar is still good. Never Crashed. But this took a lot of money just to solo our first gas plane.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Prop wash, yeh I'll try that. Does it still come in 5 gallon buckets?, oh yeh thats right , I saw it right next to the 1000 foot rolls of flight line. I'll give your idea a try, thanks.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Just looking through the new posts and saw this thread, and saw many parallels with my recent experiences.
Less than a year ago I learned to fly by myself ( with a little encouragement from a friend).
I used a semi scale ( we call it "squint scale") Spacewalker, made entirely of styrofoam. the airfoil section I used was a "NERENUF 001."
Everything was reinforced in the critical areas with wood, and covered with coloured parcel tape!

Yes, I crashed it quite a few times in the process of learning, but it hasn't broken as yet! - just wrinkled the wingtips a little, and I can actually fly now!
It does loops, rolls and all the other things you'd expect it to do, - who said you need a high wing to learn on!
Best of all the airframe only cost me a little time, and approx. $10 to build! + the cost of a secondhand radio, and an FP 40 engine which I got new for $70USD. and it's all still flying today.

Now, is this the "go get" American attitude you talk about? - no, but it's probably the same thing, - we have it here in New Zealand too, but we call it "Kiwi Ingenuity", in Australia they call it "Aussie Ingenuity", they have it in Britain as well as France , Germany, Spain, Russia, and all those other countries in Europe, Africa, India, China and the Middle East, etc.etc. and I believe they have it in Sweden also, ie. "Swedish Ingenuity" (The Swedes contributed their fair share of solutions to the worlds needs and problems too).

My point is, all this ingenuity from around the world found it's way to America, and made America great, - you must not forget your roots ( for instance, what is your name? is it an American name? )


BTW, I grew up in Ireland, and we had it there too!, and I found when I moved to NZ, they were just as ingenious and resourceful as we were.
Also, my maternal Grandfather was an American citizen, my wife's brother is an American, and my son lives in NC, so please don't think that I am biased against Americans, quite the opposite in fact.

If I can learn to fly by myself at 60 years old, anybody can, and I've found I can learn to do these things just as well as when I was 20, ( a little more cautiously and with more thought of course ).
Many years ago I did quite a few lessons on a full size aircraft, but there is really no way you can compare the two, model aircraft are much harder to learn the basics on, with no "seat of the pants" feedback, however much less dangerous!

I agree with most of what you say, and a tough resilient aircraft, whatever it is constructed of, or however it is constructed, is a must, as is that "just do it" attitude.

Use a leather glove to flick the prop, a lightweight welding glove is ok. after a while you'll get used to it and probably won't even bother.

Someone ( BELIBLIS I think ) earlier on mentioned keeping well away from people, and I endorse this, these aircraft can be lethal if they hit someone.
Sorry BELIBLIS, I think I just contravened about every regulation in the book, at my age I should know better! - I guess I'm a little lucky being able to find somewhere to fly without too many people around.
Good luck with your flying Todd,
Will Dunlop.

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

Hey Willdo,
Sounds like you have the "Cando" spirit. You would fit right in, here in the USA. I know we dont hold the whole market on ideas, just the best ones, hehehe. Just kiddin'. A few of those countries you listed have made some contributions to society and evolution but a few others would require quit a stretch of the imagination to include in a list of advanced nations that produce any contribution to modern man. By the way I love Swedish meatballs, and volvo's are ok too, but technical advancment? Now I'm not saying that the people in the USA, England and Germany (I include all of these countries satalite's in this list too) are smarter than those in the rest of the world but we all have the freedom to excersize our minds and put our ideas to use more than the others. And yes , America is full of people from around the world and thats what makes us so great. All of the people who were smart enough to know to get the h@#$ out of where they were and come here make us more densly populated with thinkers. AND I am a REAL American, blood member of the Choctaw Nation, but I think my name is Scottish. But this is an airplane site, no body wants to hear about this stuff. Tell us about your home made plane. Do you have any pictures? How is it put together?

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

OMG(osh)!!! [X(] Let the USA bashing begin. This is so much fun and we all know how much the US sucks and how perfect the rest of the world is. As a full blooded citizen of The United States of America I'k like to volenteer to recieve today's public beating and stoning from the world wide comunity. Anything for my country. We still have 6 slots open to take beatings and only 5,000,000 people here so sign up early to get a slot.

[:'(] [>:] [:@] :D

RE: Teaching yourself to fly
 

MikeMc,
Was that the only bit you saw? - read the whole post properly! - cool it! - nobody said or even thought all that! so keep things in context please!

Todd,
Touche!,
Glad to see you have a bit of good humour, pleased to talk with you.
Now as you say this is an Aircraft forum, so lets talk about Aircraft. I'll get some photos together and show you the "old girl " in action sometime.
Great sport this flying, wish I had got into it sooner!