At a complete loss here
 

Ok guys like I said before I am a total noob when it comes to RC planes. I just purchased a Hangar 9 Alpha Trainer along with various equipment to get my started.

Well the weather down here in Houston has been exactly up to par lately, so I cant take my plane out for its maiden flight. However, I did try to get my plane's engine started tonight with no luck. I fueled the bird up primed the engine up (by placing my finger over the carb and turing the prop till fuel got in the carb. So all I need to do know is hit it with my glow starter (hobbico Hot Shot 2 which is fully charged did the 14 hours as told by instructions) and use my expensive electric starter to get it up and running. Well i plugged in my "hot-shot 2" and gave the prop a jolt from my fancy starter. Nothing happened, I hear air being pushed through the muffler but the engine isnt turing on. I suspect it is hot-shot 2, it wasnt getting hot, so i ran upstairs and checked the internet for any tips. I then concluded that I did not have a "glow plug". However, after closer inspection I found that I did indeed have a glow plug already installed in my plane. I couldnt get it to turn over, I am at a loss here.

If someone could point me in the right direction to resolve this issue it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!!

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Pull off the glow plug, connect it to the hot shot and see if it glows a nice bright orange. If not, you either have a bad plug, or a bad hot shot.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

The Alpha Trainer comes with the 'Evolution Trainer System' This is by far the best beginner engine on the market.

Check your glow plug and always 'RTM' carefully..

If you didn't know about that pesky glow plug thingy you should probably get an instructor. Otherwise you will will have to deal with all that confusing flying stuff.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Thing of the glow plug as the *almost* equivalent of a car spark plug and the Hot Shot as the car battery. Connecting the Hot Shot to the glow plug causes a little spiral dealie inside the glow head to "glow," thus igniting the fuel. Once ignition is achieved, the Hot Shot is removed. The glow plug is screwed on top of the engine.

I also recommend you get someone more experienced to help you out, especially in the beginning stages. :)

Here's what the glow plug looks like: http://www2.gpmd.com/image/a/ascg1059.jpg (as viewed from the bottom)

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Just 2 or 3 training flights from someone who knows how to fly the things can make a HUGE difference.

1) The experienced guy can "trim" the airplane so it WANTS to fly straight. An untrimmed model and a biggnner is a formula for a wreck.

2) Just getting the guidance in how little you really have to move the sticks helps you to not overcontrol... and thus you can fly the plane instead of fight with it.

3) The experienced guy can SHOW you how to safely deal with that meat chopper we call a propeller.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Ok I jerked out the glow plug and tested it.....Ok it is getting lava hot :D

So one suspect is out. The only thing I can think of next is maybe I am not getting enough fuel in the engine to get it to turn over. Can you flood these little engines? Am I supposed to fill the carborater to the top with fuel (if possible?). Anyone know a nooby site where I can go through the basics in starting this engine?

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Yeah, it's called a club!!!:D and they cover much more then the basics of starting an engine:D

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Mine did the same thing. Couldn't get it to prime by covering the carb and turning the prop. With air, I gently forced some fuel from the tank to the carb and it fired right up. Have not had any trouble since. Runs fine.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

You can flood it.

But chances are, you aren't priming quite enough. Try 2-3 turns of the prop after the fuel has reached the carb (with your finger still over the carb opening). Oh, and the throttle should be at full when priming.

Another way to do it is to cover the muffler exhaust with your finger and give is a shot with the starter. That forces a lot of pressure in to the tank and you get a lot of fuel quickly to the engine that way. Overdoing this will easily lead to flooding, but it can make it easier to start some engines.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

don't prime with the glow plug connected.... If the engine "kicks" unexpectedly you will get cut.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

All good advice and I couldn't really add anything to whats been offered. However...just so you know. You may need to adjust the fuel mixture by adjusting the needle valve. This is usually set somewhere around two and one half to three turns open from a closed position. If this is not properly set, you will indeed have a tough time getting your engine started. Once the engine is set up properly it will give you no trouble. The occasional glow plug might be all you ever need to do other than an occasional tweeeking of the needle valves to insure that your engine stays tuned.

Seek a club, or instructor as recommended and you will learn much more, quicker, and safer. And probably save some money in the process. I fly at Scobee field in Katy, but I am sure you can find a venue on your side of town. Although...Scobee has an awesome concrete runway, and there are some good instructors available. It is also open to the public (as long as you have your AMA card), meaning you don't have to pay the club dues if you don't want. However in your case you might not want to make the drive across town. Hope this helps.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

[X(]

.....Ok it is getting lava hot :D
[/quote]
Did you burn your fingers ?.[sm=lol.gif]

The only thing I can think of next is maybe I am not getting enough fuel in the engine to get it to turn over.Am I supposed to fill the carborater to the top with fuel (if possible?). Anyone know a nooby site where I can go through the basics in starting this engine?
[/quote]

I would highly advise you to go to a flying field and let them help you with your plane,especially for the first time,they can be valuable help and willing to do so.That evolution engine has stops on the high and low speed adjustments,don't turn them past the stops.One more thing,is your batteries charged up ?.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

And tomorrow he will be telling us all about the cuts on his hand and how many fingers he is missing. :eek:

Why is it so hard for people to get help so they don't screw up the engine or cut themselves up? I watch some kids here who will not let anyone help them. They crash every flight. Is that so much fun?

I just don't get it. [:-]:eek:

RE: At a complete loss here
 

btw, the Alpha comes with the Evo engine normally. If you have that engine, the needle valve will have a limiter on it, so while Aeronaut's advice is good in general, it doesn't quite apply to the Alpha. Just set it towards the rich limit of it's travel, and it should be fine.

There have been a few cases of the needle limiter on an Evo engine being set to a point that wouldn't allow it to run right, but it's rare, and I doubt it's the case here.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

No cuts....but a nice little burn....and I will entertain you fellas :D

I like chocolate candys...and i was eating one of those hersheys kisses.....well at the time I had no place to throw away that tin foil so I just put it in my pocket.....well as i was moving the plane and all the equipment outside I put my glow starter in the same pocket where that tin foil was in.....Well I took out glow starter and noticed that some of that foil was stuck in there....i was able to brush the majority of it off with my finger.....but there was still a small piece of foil still stuck in there.....sooo without thinking....I grab this tiny metal wire that was on my table....and stick it in the glow starter to get the foil out....yeah i was burned really quick...I threw the metal wire somewhere in my backyard and danced around for a bit cursing while my buddy fell over laughing at me.....the metal wire i have no idea where it is.....but i am sure my lawnmower will find it when i run it over with it....so yeah...thats my story....good call on whoever said i will be back with an injury report :)

ahh but yes...after the life threating incedent....I got the plane started....but I am having problems getting it to idle without the glow starter in it....I can get it to idle at high rpms....like 1/3 throttle maybe a little more.....where is the stick supposed to be for idle...all the way down?

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Your engine will idle with the throttle stick pulled back towards you, if the "trim tab" is pushed away from you. The trim tab is there to (1) provide a shutoff, when you want to stop the engine, and (2) provide idle speed, when you don't want the engine to die with the stick pulled back.

The engine will probably idle around 2000 RPM or so. That's more or less normal for our small engines. It might sound like it's screaming, but reliable idle under about 1600 RPM is rare.

You will be responsible for setting your throttle link up so that you can (1) kill the engine by pulling the stick and trim tab back, and (2) so that your engine will idle when the trim tab is pushed away from you, with the stick pulled back toward you.

These setup items are readily explained in person by an experienced flier. Not so easy in writing, on these forums. Everyone is recommending you find an experienced flier for that reason.

If you insist on doing it all yourself, please use your friend to restrain the plane when starting. And make sure no one is in the plane of the propeller arc - if something drops into the prop, it will be flung off in that plane, hitting whomever is in the path.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Flyboy,

If it wasn't sooo true it would be funny:eek::eek:

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Well flyboy......Not everyone has the money to drop to get into a mikey mouse club...

There are a few rules of AMA i plan on breaking.....So why would I join....And if you cant answer any of my questions then how about not posting here? Sorry, no cuts, small burn though if thats what you are looking for...

40 dollars a year for ama
150 a year for Local club membership
100 dollar sign up fee to join....

I just dropped 500 bucks gentlemen.....another 290 bucks right now is out of the question.....I dont even know if I am going to enjoy this hobby yet.....Excuse me if I am to poor to get in this "rich mans" hobby....but even the poor can dream also :).....so spare me with the arrogant posts on how "kids" should do this and do that.....

But I want to take the time to thank the people who actually do understand what it is like to be a noob....I want to thank them a million times for every word that they have dropped in this thread.....I am learning a ton, and for that I am thankfull!!!

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Where do you plan on flying? Are you aware of the amount of space you'll require?

One thing to consider is that you've invested $500 in this now. If you don't receive adequate instruction, that investment will be lost.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

MinioN, If you don't get help, and no you don't have to join a club to get help but you probably will have to join the AMA. Chances are you will try to fly your plane but it won't run right because no one showed you how to set the needles both the high end and the low end. If you do get it into the air you will then plant it into the ground. It will need to be repaired but since you won't go to a club to get help you won't know how to fix it. You will get discourage and give up. It doesn't cost money to ask someone to show you how to fly, there is alot to learn. I started flying almost 4 years ago. I went to a field walked up to the first "old guy" I saw and asked hime how do I get started in this hobby. He told go buy a trainer and come back next week and I'll show you how. That was the start of a great relationship. He has become my mentor and good friend. The knowledge he has shared with me has been invaluable and with out his help I would have never learned anything

RE: At a complete loss here
 

You can get at least one, and possibly up to 8 training sessions with some clubs before joining EITHER the AMA or the club... Find a club that has the "Intro Pilot Program". Its an AMA program that has the club designate instructors who can then give initial training lessons before the beginner joins the club or the AMA and still have full AMA insurance coverage for the instructor, student and the club. (and the flying site owner.)

How many lessons any particular club will allow under the program is up to the club. The AMA limits you to 30 days coverage in the program.

Don't go bouncing from club to club under the program... they have to send in your name and anddress for the AMA's paperwork in the program. You'll end up with notices being sent from the AMA to the clubs in the program saying to not let you fly without an AMA card if you abuse it. Then the clubs my elect to not accept your application to join if/when you do want to join. (not a good idea to start out with a bad reputation even if they let you join...)

RE: At a complete loss here
 

I started flying last fall. I am 41 years old. My understanding is that the advent of buddy boxes has made the hobby much LESS expensive. My instructor tells me that the old traditional way of learning to fly was building a kit all winter and then busting it into a million pieces on your first attempt, then starting over, and so on... until you finally got it. My trainer has probably 50 flights on it with only a couple of dings. This WOULD NOT be the case if I tried on my own. I am not guessing at this, I know how many times my instructor took over when there was impending doom....

I don't know how easy you think this is going to be, but it sure wasn't for me. The thing that I found to be the most difficult is the fact that the plane gives you no time. You head down the runway, up it goes, away it goes... 30 miles and hour. You better be ready to turn, and then turn again. It only takes a moment and the dang thing is out of site. Orientation is hard too.. if the plane is coming toward you left is right and right is left.

Please don't equate these fellows telling you to find some help with any ill will. They are trying to help, and I agree with them.

One more thing.. AMA membership. Don't take the insurance benefits that come with this too lightly. I just about hit my pickup with my plane the other day..:eek:

RE: At a complete loss here
 

I dont have the luxury of a club available where I live but when I got involved in the hobby a friend taught me how to fly. It was still dificult and sometimes frustrating. There is no way I would have ever flown if someone hadnt helped me.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

There could be another option. If you join the AMA and have a friend at a club. Most clubs will let guests fly all they want. Just go with him to the club and be his guest. It gets to be a little bit of a hassle when the other person cant go the same time you can, but if its the money that will save you a few bucks for the time being. But when you go regular with them, you will meet other people at the club and can come as their guest as well.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Also, you could go to the club and find someone who would be willing to teach you away from the club's field. Believe me, it's impossible to say how valuable their information can be!

Well... maybe we could put a value on it. You said you dropped $500 on your plane? That's exactly how much they could save you!

RE: At a complete loss here
 

By the way... our local club only charges 25.00 per year.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

MinioN - Do you have a flight simulator? How do you intend on learning how to fly?

The other hobbies I enjoy are Piano and Guitar. If your at all musically inclined watch those fingers!

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Yes I do have a flight simulator, I can pretty fly and land any plane that it has to offer.

I am just pretty bent on how some people's reaction is to this. When I take my neighbors kids out, and teach them how to fish it is not like I pressure them to join a club. Hell, more people in my hobby the more the better.

I do plan on getting help, this thread was about my engine, not about me flying. The forums can help with with the "how to" and mechanical side to this hobby. And I am perfectly aware that nobody can explain how to fly these planes through text.

I do not play guitar or any instrument, but I do play video games and I have excellent hand eye coordination.

Just seems like everyone is wanting to sell there club. Not saying you guys are, but that is the reason why I tend to avoid those places.

And Yes I am completley aware of how much space it take to fly one of these planes. I have some property already picked out and the owners are already notified. So a place to fly isnt that tough here in texas, it is learning how to fly.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

MinioN

I know that I can't help you because we are several thousand miles apart, but what you have been going through seems to be the norm and not the exception, that is judging from what I hear from too many newbies in the hobby.

Locally, I have a program where anyone can fly either my airplane or helicopter for free, just to see if they might like the hobby. Then we supply training for both airplane and helicopter. Wouldn't be great if all hobby shops offered such service?

Nascarjoe

RE: At a complete loss here
 

You forget that the reaction to your engine problems was to get help *with the engine* from someone first hand. Running a glow engine is as much art as it is science. We can't see your setup, nor can we see your procedures. You might describe all the things you feel are important, yet miss the critical item. The people giving advice might miss something that's critical to your success. Even if everything that needs to be discussed is discussed, there can still be things lost in the terminology.

Don't be defensive. People aren't pressuring you to join a club--they're reading your post, assessing your knowledge and skills, and recommending what they feel is the course of action most likely to ensure your success.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

I fly at 3 sites.

Two are club operated sites, one is a city park.

One club site requires AMA membership and will be upset if you don't belong to SOME club and "visit" the field every week for 6 months. The other club site requires AMA only because the site lease requires it. Thier site lease also requires them to allow any AMA member to fly without club membership. (strange lease...) The city park has no posted rules of any nature. The city requests AMA membership for the insurance, but no one ever checks, and about 1/2 the people that fly there don't have it.

I am on the instructor list for the first club... and I have given lessons at the city park. The other club requires a proficiency test to become an instructor, an they want the instructors to be members of thier club. Since I only fly there about once in 3 months... I decided not to join.

If someone has a reasonably close flying site and needs help... I'd go help. Its part of promoting the hobby and promoting safety to help any beginner learn to fly. I don't care if the beginner is an AMA member or a club member... I want them to learn to safely handle the meat chopper we call a propeller and I want them to learn to have good control of thier model so they can keep it from hitting people.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

I remember hanging out at the field before I started. Just wanted to see what it was about. There was this time two of the old farts... sorry.. where looking at an airplane. They were really giving it the once over. They kept talking about the ailerons. Everything looked just fine to me. Come to find out the ailerons were not even, one up just a bit, one down. To me they looked fine. This plane, if it got off the ground, would have spiraled out of control. EVERYTHING has to be just right on an airplane. If it is not, it is not as simple as just pulling over to the side of the track.

I guess I am beating a dead horse...but...

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Ok, I just found a person who is not in AMA and has a field that he will teach me how to fly. And no club to join, just your common man.

Thats really what I was looking for.

RE: At a complete loss here
 

Save some planes and get a sim!!!!!!!

RE: At a complete loss here
 

I do have a sim

RE: At a complete loss here
 

MinioN, finding that guy is first step to enjoying a really great hobby or addiction, depending on how you look at it. Have fun.