In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

i am not sure when to use these glue coud u gurus pls help me.

epoxy where & when
 

Hi Raghfrost, Most kits today call for epoxy in the critical area's in the instruction's, Here are some important area's to consider. FIREWALL, WING JOINING, TAIL FEATHER's(vert. & horizontal stab), LANDING GEAR MOUNTING BLOCK, I use epoxy in all area's that will be subject to high stress. :D note: no epoxy used installing this pilot figure . hehehe

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

so ur tell me that the ribs and all i can use thick CA?

Raghfrost
 

Building wing's i use thin CA, after the structure is complete, I go over every joint with med. or thick CA, Use thin initialy, as it will set the rib's instantly,(no time to move) :D :D

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

kewl!.. then wat about the skeleton of the fuese

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

Forget CA, use wood glue. Sets slower, but is every bit as strong (if not stronger), plus doesn't produce fumes that'll make you sick (thin give me a headache if I breath too many fumes). I've been using Titebond and the stuff is terrific. Wood breaks before the bonded area. In fact, I only use thin CA for hinges (using a hypodermic needle to reduce fumes) and thick (less fumes) for gaps now.

I use epoxy on area's of high stress as others have mentioned. Also use thinned epoxy (either using heat or alcohol) on any bare areas of wood that may see fuel or exhaust sputter.

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

Take f2racer's advice, use titebond for most uses. Less expensive, stronger, more crash resistant (less brittle) and non toxic. Cleans up with water before it cures yet is nearly waterproof after 24 hours. I even use it for firewalls in big gas burners, the wood breaks before the glue joint does--what more can you want?

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

yea not a bad idea using wood clue!..

but u gotta keep holding the rib till the glue sets !

titebond
 

if you suggest titebond as i also use at times, give him more imfo, ONLY USE TITEBOND II, as its the only waterproof titebond

Titebond
 

For model use the regular Titebond is the preferred glue. Use the Titebond 2 only if you plan to fly off water. Regular is much easier to use as the open time and shelf life differ between the two. Titebond will set up so calmps can be removed from a good joint in as little as 15 minutes. If you need to remove a joint water will do the trick as well as heat. Yes, I do work in the woodworking industry. Bill

Re: titebond
 

I believe the 2 formula is actually weaker than the original. Whatever, it can't possibly be stronger (I've done some testing and Titebond is as strong as 30 minute epoxy in any joint). Plus you really don't need it since you cover any areas that you'll use the glue on. As Bill state, unless you plan on using floats or flying in the rain (which some people do), use the original formula.

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

ahh thats the problem here in singapore u will never know when it will rain! so i guess i better stick to epoxy and Ca..

and i have one more question.. how is that i have seen ppl covering their wings without any squease it like so perfect esp at the end of the wingtip .. i find it so hard to cover the tips without showing the cut marks of the monocoat..

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

Just an FYI, one of CA's practical uses is in medical (surgical actually) procedures. They use it because with prolonged exposure to water it disolves.

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

but then again the joints will be coverd with mono coat rite!

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

Which is why wood glue will work just as good if not better than CA on most joints. Any joint that is made using thin only to me is risky. The glue hardens all the surrounding wood making both the joint and the wood around it brittle. You must account for this when building. Titebond does NOT do this. I've spoken to many modeler, and some swear by CA, other with wood glue. It's just a matter of preference, but some glues are better at certain applications... Ask around you'll get millions of opinions and suggestions.

additional glue information
 

The following is from a PM to me and my reply regarding this thread.
************************************************** **
Re: yes i do work in the industry
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***^ wrote on 06-29-2002 7:09 PM:
so do the modelers that explained the titebond II use to me, is it just an opinion or is it really the better glue to use, i haven't had any prob's useing II, what were the advantages of regular titebond ??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***, The reguar Titebond has a longer open time. In other words you have more time to get the 2 pieces together before the glue starts to set up. The Titebond II "skins" over in a very short period of time. It doesn't have the "grab" that the original glue does. It then takes longer in my experience to be able to remove the clamps. In any case there is no substitute for a good wood joint. It also takes longer to come to full cure. I have experienced varying shelf life with the "II" and have had it simply not stick to the wood surface or ball up upon application. I now buy it in small quantities, check the date and toss it after 1 year if not used. I have never had to be concerned with the regular version. Overall I would say yes the regular version is the better choice for model building.

In applications where waterproof glue is used you may want to consider the "polyurethane" types. They are completely waterproof but are difficult to use and do have some health risks both with inhalation and with contact with skin. I use this glue in the application of skins (sheeting) to foam cores as well as other applications.
Bill
************************************************** *
additional information added:
I use CA however do keep it to a minimum for several reasons:
1. It is expensive.
2. It is not good to inhale the fumes.
3. Joint strength is not always assured. (Did I get one 1 or 2 drops on the joint and did it go into the wood or onto the table under the joint or just go into the rib and not the joint of the rib and spar?)
I use very little epoxy for building. The 20 minute "finish" cure is used when applying fiberglass cloth to wing center joints as it is thin in nature.
Bill

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

I use CA for everything and even the firewall for up to 1.20 size.

If you can't make a perfect (no gaps) joint, then don't use CA, if you can make a perfect joint, then CA is as good if not better then anything out there.

My 33% GP Extra was done this way except for the firewall which was also pinned.

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

mama-miea you gotta be serious CA all the way!.. i gues only laser cut kits will be ok to use CA all the way i geusss..


by the way could u please tell me at which part of the plane ur user wat type of CA like thick or thin.

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

Any time I have two pieces of wood with a good fit, I hold them together and apply thin CA. If I can't reach the glue joint with the bottle, I use thick CA on the piece and then apply the piece of wood to the other piece to be glued.
Don't soak the wood with CA, it only needs a tiny bit to propagate.

For sheeting, I measure very carefully the sheeting needed, then assemble as many sheets as needed (but joint) then I sand it both sides and then cut it to fit properly. I do a dry fit, and mark all the longerons, ribs, whatever it will be attached to.

With the small drill bit, I punch holes every 1/2 inch on the marked sheet. I then refit the sheet to the structure, making sure to aline it perfectly. Then I put a drop of thin CA in every hole I made. I call this CA rivets.

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

which brand of Ca do you guys use ?
where can i find Titebond?

Tank you in advance

Glue sources
 

Titebond is available at most "Home" centers or hardware stores.

Try this with Titebond. Apply glue to two surfaces and let the glue dry ( 20 minutes or overnight or a week later > time is not the issue ~ do not assemble). Then get your iron (covering or the one used to iron your shirts) and iron the two pieces together. This will form a bond that is as strong as if you clamped it. Used for sheeting just mark where the ribs are and "paint" the glue on where contact will be made. No pin holes and it can be done quickly.

I am currently using Cyberbond CA. Have used Goldberg / ZAP /
and others in the past. The Cyberbond seems to be the CA of choice for many IMAC pilots.

Bill

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

I've found no discernable difference between Great Planes and Zap CAs, so I use GP since it's about 1/2 the cost. Titebond can be found at any hardware store (it costs under $4 for a 16oz bottle at Home Depot).

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

i use ZAP-A-CA think

Adhesives
 

I'd add this to the "why" part of this discussion..

CA is convenient and fast. That's why most modelers use it, because they're in a hurry. But it's not always the best choice. The main reason is that it's rigid.

In all structures, a rigid joint creates a "spike" in that area, meaning that energy tends to get concentrated there. If you have a lightweight, "stick"-type structure, which is engineered to absorb and distribute loads throughout itself, then you're better of with a more flexible (not weaker, just more flexible) adhesive. That would include wood glue, and I'd add silicone to the list, too.

Silicone has some great qualities for modelers. It helps absorb and damp vibration, but will not "break" loose, as CA and epoxy sometimes will. Many of us use it to attach firewalls and landing gear mounts in fiberglass fuselages. (i.e., "Goop", ZAP "Goo", etc.) Another bonus is that silicone can be removed later, if need be, with a sharp knife.

Epoxy is somewhere in between. It's more flexible than CA, but still fairly rigid. Certain types of epoxy are also quite strong, on their own, such as the West Systems epoxy.

There's no one "magic" adhesive that will do all modeing tasks. A little reading and research will lead you to the right one for the job. Also, adding various types of fillers to each adhesive can change it's properties in dramatic ways.

In kit building when to use CA and when to use epoy?
 

Ok,, well, while on this subject...
How about PROBOND <elmers> and/or
PROBOND POLYURETHANE <elmers>...
The poly does expand and fill gaps which is good at times..
But how do they equate to strenght comparing to CA and
epoxy..
Thank you,,
Robby