HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

i need help learning how to take off with a tail dragger. i've tried advancing the throttle slowly, and adding just a little rudder input for the "P" factor, and nothing seems to be working. i've got the plane to stop smacking the curb for the most part, but i'm all over the run way, at the least. my buddy suggested a gyro linked to the rudder, but i think that i would just get used to that and never really learn and i have other planes i'm dying to fly, but have to hand launch them so i don't wreck them. and i'm about to move and lose my launch buddy. PLEASE HELP???[sm=drowning.gif]

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

One thing that helped me a lot is to put a little "toe in" in the main gear. This helps the plane self correct a bit as it goes down the runway.

"Toe in" means that you twist each main gear axle so that the front of each wheel points toward the centerline by a couple of degrees or so.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

SLOWLY advance the throttle.

Hold a little up elevator until the airplane has built up some speed so that the rudder is flying instead of just deflecting propwash.

Then let the tail come up... and watch the model lift off.


If the wheels are aligned correctly... that should do it.

Sometimes shimming the landing gear to move the axles back under the LE of the wng while the airplane is level helps.

Wider landing gear always helps.

As noted above.... if the wheels point out... it will be very bad. If the wheels point in a little its good. If they point in too much it gets bad again. Straight works.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Tailgraggers require a different approach to takeoffs.

You need to hold full up elevator WHILE TAXING to keep the tailwheel on the ground.

For take off, hold A LITTLE up elevator while doing your takeoff run, you will also need to BE READY to feed in rudder. As the plane gets up to speed, ease off on the elevator. At this point 2 things happen: 1. The plane is going to want to go to the left and 2. the tailwheel no longer controls the steering, it is the rudder. SO, as you accelerate on your takeoff run you will be holding A LITTLE up elevator AND you will be ready on the rudder, as you are accellerating toward takeoff speed (at about 1/3 - 1/2 of the takeoff speed) START EASING OFF on the elevator.

Watch the plane CAREFULLY. AS SOON AS THE TAIL BEGINS TO LIFT, start feeding in RIGHT rudder to keep the plane running in a straight line. At this point, the plane should be taxing at a high rate of speed and be up on the main gear. Now feed in a LITTLE up elevator and BE READY TO EASE OFF ON THE RUDDER. DO NOT RELEASE THE RUDDER, just gradually ease off AS THE PLANE LIFTS FROM THE GROUND. Once the main gear comes off the ground, the amount of pulling to the left will be reduced.

I realize this sounds complicated, but it isn't. All it takes is some practice. If you have a GOOD sim, such as RealFlight G2, that has/allows ground handling, practice on that.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

The last post is the best way I can put it without having to type it myself. Taildraggers are fun and IMO are easier to land.

The gyro is overkill IMO also. In the long run, you would really want to learn how to handle a taildragger without assistance so that extra money can be spent elsewhere on your next taildragger.

Have fun learning and keep us informed of your progress...

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

It's just a matter of practice and it soon becomes natural, won't take long!
Like all these other guys say, a little "toe in" is desirable.
Also free running wheels and short grass help. - If the grass is a bit long, a little initial push works wonders.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Practice makes perfect.

Rather than thinking about just blindly adding in "some rudder" just advance the trottle slowly, going in steps. Concentrate on using the rudder to keep it straight.

Try just running up and down the runway (don't try to take off), first at a slow speed, just get the plane moving, and stay at that speed.

Then go just a bit faster and stay at that speed down the runway.

Then faster speeds. It won't take long until you can zip up and down the runway easily, and taking off will happen almost by itself.

When test flying someone else's tail dragger, I often do something like this, a little throttle, then hold, wait, steer, then a bit more throttle. Letting the plane stabalize rather than constantly increasing the power and getting in to trouble.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

You're ground looping. Let me guess, a small swerve to the left gets deeper, you increase the right rudder and the plane adbruptly swerves to the right, then back to the left, then to the right and so on with each swerve getting a little deeper [X(].

Most of the advice you've been given in the previous posts is on so I won't belabor the point, but I'll add a little advice of my own. If you start to loose it and get into this swerving dance, then chop the throttle. Turn around, taxi back and try again. You have to time when you put the rudder in and when you let off so you don't get out of phase with the plane and make things worse. It's hard to explain, you can only learn by practice.

I used to have this problem with my Decathalon. Now I don't. I can't tell you exactly what I'm doing differently, but I've taken it off 100's of times. It must just be the practice.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Directional control problems with taildraggers are often caused by excessive rudder throw.
You might first try decreasing the rudder throw.
You might desensitize the tailwheel by moving the tailwheel axis in front of the rudder axis and use a tiller arm to connect to the rudder. (But this requires a mod)
Or you can make no changes and just fly off of grass.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Somthing that helped me is I went and bought a WW2 flight sim and joystick about $50 invested and that helped me alot. Plus when you can't fly Rc you can Shoot people down on the Sim!

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

toe-in on main wheels and bigger wheels does the trick for me,all my planes are tail draggers and i have never had a problem but maybe i am just lucky!

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Heres another tip.
If you are not using a computer radio take some of the rudder throw out and only allow the rudder to move about 30-50% of its full potential throw. While you are learning to fly taildraggers go with the minimum rudder throw needed to fly not maximum. Too much rudder throw can make the rudder really REALLY touchy on the ground.

If you do have a computer radio reduce the throw and add some exponential to the rudder. I would say start with -50 to -75 exponential. That will make you control inputs much more subtle while building up speed.

Good advice above, especially E-A-S-I-N-G the throttle in. Give yourself as much runway as possible and let the plane ease up to speed. That gives you a little time to adjust your steering as the plane slowly builds up speed.

Last Resort.
If the plane has an excessive amount of power and you are a good pilot with the field all to yourself you can try gunning it from a dead stop and lifting off immediately. Planes that wanna tailspin on the runway cant tailspin if the wheels never start rolling. I do it with spads but you have to be ready for anything when the plane leaves the ground.

Have fun!

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

WHOO HOO let me add my two cents worth. Thought I had some good practice with RF on taildraggers. Got one of the experienced guys to maiden the spacewalker. He ground looped a couple times, then added some expo to rudder and got it up in air. Then its my turn. Ground loop. Ground loop. Ground loop. One guy suggested what Big Ned did, but engine isn't lean enough to run full power yet, and that was -more than a little- nerve racking. I won't say I got the technique downpat, but pointing plane down runway, advancing throttle very gradually with a little down elevator in, just untill tailwheel gets off deck, then working rudder was working for me very well at the end. I got about 4 good takeoffs in. No touch 'n' goes yet, but they'll come. I need to figure out how to land this monster gently, so far all I've managed to do is plunk it down on the runway in a most un-gracefull manner. It's no trainer.

andy

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

The practice will improve your landings also. I feel that any landing in which all I have to do to fly again is add fuel, is a good one. :D

For landing your tail dragger, come in at a relatively slow speed and about 12" from the ground. You should have ABOUT 1/4 throttle or a little less, then, as you SLOWLY reduce the throttle, GRADUALLY add in up elevator. Doing this, you should be doing VERY NICE 3 POINT LANDINGS, if not immediately, in a very short time.

Your Spacewalker should have no problem landing at trainer speeds.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Never heard of the Spacewalker described as a monster before!

I consider it to be a great trainer ( even with the low wing), - something's wrong there!

Tried gunning it from the start and lifting off quickly ( with a quick shove off from my friend) and it was airborne in a few yards.

Mine was a scratch built foamie, and not exactly true to scale, so maybe the kit is different.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

To add to campys suggestion about landing. When you ease down to about 3 inches off the ground. HOLD IT THERE... 3 inches as LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG as you can. Dont let it climb to 4 inches hold it there and it will sit as gentle as a feather. The guys I have trained have always had to overcome the urge to stop flying at about 1-2' and let the plane drop to the runway resulting in a hard landing usually with a bounce or two afterwards.
If you will float as long at 3 inches as you can you will land softer and take up less runway because you will be a little slower at touchdown.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

A65l
I just saw the photo you posted of your spacewalker in another thread.
With all due respect to the kit manufacturers, those wheels are far too small, - it could easily take wheels twice the diameter!
Bet that would take care of your landing and takeoff woes!
Forget the wheelpants, your objective after all is learning, not showing off, isn't it?

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

I'm learning about taildraggers too on a Fantasy. This plane requires only up elev for a short run, then I ease off early. This eases the work load. Lots of right rudder and it lifts off easily. The Fantasy lands different from the advice so far. It does not have any tendency to slow down, so I am at no throttle on downwind before turning base. It keeps the speed up until about mid final when it begins to want to float nicely. The wing gets into ground effect, floats about 3 inches, and will gently touch down. The landings will make you look good on this plane.

Takeoffs were eating my lunch at first, but I now go about 1/2 throttle to get the tail up, then I go full throttle with right rudder. It is much easier to takeoff this way.

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Taxi to the runway, get some speed, close your eyes, give full throttle and some elevator and hope for the best!


Just kidding....

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Oh hell, that's what I did! - didn't know you were joking, worked for me though! (several times).

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

I especially liked the idea of full throttle, up elevator and closed eyes combined.;) [X(] Can we say SPLAT!:)

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

That's only if you forget the rudder!

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

Hello all,

I thought I'd add my inexperience two cents:-)... I have been flying a Dazzler 40 for
about 15+ flights now, after learning on my Avistar since late Feb...

On my very first take-off attempt I lined up on the runway and slowly added throttle
as the plane started to drift to the right I made a correction and that started my dance...
So I came back around for another try But I got the same results.. An old timer there
started helping me,( "Mister LEAN" they call him ) He told me some planes are more
touchy than others as he saw I was making small moves but still getting the dance:(
So he told me this is sort of against the rules.. But.. Line up the plane, give just
enough throttle to start her rolling, make any correction if need be..But ONLY if you
really have too.. Then give it full throttle.. Hey this maybe wrong/bad advise, But its
worked for me for 15+ flights.. He also told me to use low rates on take-off and landings
and switch to high rates while in the air.. Which I know is sound advise.. And I took-off
on low rates and once up I went to high rates.. But when landing I almost came down to
hard due too "getting the feel on high while flying" But when I came in for landing I
continued to have that "Hi rate Feel" which casued me to make stick moves too slow and
almost slamming the plane down too hard.... This maybe wrong also.. But I'm on high
rates all the time now..Well at least for the last 13 flights..

Hope this helps... Do what's right and feels good to you.. Well with-in reason:-)

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

The "gun it and hold on" approach works for some planes, but I always shudder a little when I see it done. You're trusting too much to luck, low wing loading and high power loading, IMHO.

Usually the plane leaves the ground too soon, but you get away with it because the stall is soft and the plane has so much power it can pull out of trouble.

However, there are a lot of planes out there which will bite you if you try that approach. Try that with a heavily loaded scale warbird and you'll snap in to the ground for sure.

And it just looks wrong to go from standing still to airborne in a couple of steps. just totally wrong. :)

RE: HELP LEARNING TO TAKE OFF WITH TAILDRAGGER???
 

My opinion of low vs high rates... make the low rate be expo... and high rate be no expo... and still have 100% travel available on BOTH. Don't want to have to flip a switch to get that extra 50% of throw in a tight situation. You get the "soft center" (which is normally your reason for doing the low rate...) and you never have a problem getting full deflection on demand.

On that last "dancing" airplane... double check your wheels. I bet they are toed out a touch. (sure can't hurt to check it... and may make ground handling MUCH better in 2 easy tweaks ;))