Rudders
 

With the exception of 3d flying, what is the point of a rudder? I cant possibly think when you would use one. I know it might help for the landing of bigger planes, but everything else, I just cant figure it out.

RE: Rudders
 

More for aerobatics. Stall turns, snaprolls, Knifedge, flat turns, sideslips, etc. I had the option of putting it on a GWS electric Zero and it would be boring flight without it.

RE: Rudders
 

Your going to start some trouble in here with that comment:D My friend who had/has been teaching me has been flying for 7 years and does some pretty good 3D stuff. I asked him the last time we were at the field on how and when to use rudder and he kind of blew the question off. So I wathched him fly and I never did see his thumb move the rudder stick other that to change throttle. So I wonder if the rudder is a lost art of flying only known by the masters any more:). This guy has taught more that a few of the guys that fly at our field and they seem to all have good flying ability's.

RE: Rudders
 

The rudder is used to control the yaw axis. When you bank an airplane using ailerons, they will produce drag, so the rudder is used to compensate for it. Also another key reason for a rudder is say you have a crosswid from the right side of your airplane and your about to land. You will want to use right ailerons to bank into the wind to stay on course, but to prevent the plane from drifting off the center line, you will use left rudder. The rudder is used for stalls. When at high angles of attack the ailerons become less useful. When doing a stall you want to use the rudder to center the plane. If you do not, and the plane stalls, you will fall in that direction and end up in a spin. You need air movement for ailerons to work, but the key to the stall is to have not enough lift on the wings to hold it. Rudder for taildraggers is a biggie too because when u take off or land, your tail end is off the ground so the only way to control it is with the rudder surface.

This is based on real aircraft so the effect on R/C might not be as effective but it is a part of aerodynamics

Hope this helps

~Matt

RE: Rudders
 

PS in turns little rudder is needed for the aileron drag, but more might be needed in the stalls and crosswind landins

~Matt

RE: Rudders
 

The rudder exists for people to argue about :)

I would suggest reading a book about full scale flying, and then trying to duplicate the things you read with your model.

That should make everything as clear as mud. At the very least, you'll realize there is good reason to have a rudder on a conventinal airplane.

RE: Rudders
 

.... for example...

Look at this movie of a Camel landing:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_18...tm.htm#1844994

The plane decends with the fuselage a bit sideways and one wing dropped. That is a slip. It requires rudder input. The pilot does it to increase drag on the plane so that it decends faster without picking up airspeed (as would result if one simply dove). You can do the same with your model for kicks. If you were landing dead stick and found yourself high on final, you could do the same thing to avoid landing long.

RE: Rudders
 

If you ever get to fly a Piper Cub you will wish you knew how to fly with a rudder!!!!!

RE: Rudders
 

Here are some rudder uses examples:
- take off
- landing
- slip the plane
- skit the plane
- make a nice turn(yeah you need it here)

just to name a few.

I was wondering which is the last control to stall?
Right the rudder

RE: Rudders
 

Nice troll. Keep it up.

RE: Rudders
 

Would finding someone who flies the giant scale planes be a good place to learn rudder techniques?

RE: Rudders
 

Find a real (oops... full scale) pilot and ask him/her.

This is a troll? Why would anyone waste their time? I must be naive.

RE: Rudders
 

I think the rudder is like deodorant in a way. Everyone says how important it is but few of those people actually use it. Everyone can tell you what it's purpose is and why it is important, but I'll bet you would be surprised at how infreguently it is used. Everyone says its for coordinated turns. I don't think many people know what a coordinated turn means. There was a thread here not too long ago about making coordinated turns. People were saying that opposite rudder was used (opposite the direction aileron stick). That's a knife edge turn unless you are flying inverted. If you are flying large circles, with a shallow bank angle you don't have to use the rudder. It does help in tight turns where you swing the tail around in a hurry as in touch and go races. It also helps in landing in windy conditions where you have to straighten the plane out but are too low to use the ailerons.

RE: Rudders
 

So, a rudder is a nice thing to have, but by no means is it neccesary for a good flight? Does this sound right?

RE: Rudders
 

its possible to fly with out one yes definetley.. but i highly wouldn't recommend it. It stabilizes the plane in the air along with all the functions I and others have listed. But if i HAD to throw a control surface away, i would want it to be the rudder cause a plane yes is perfectly flyable with out it... i just would be scared senseless lol. I am a real world pilot BTW

~Matt

RE: Rudders
 

You can fly for years without using rudder (other than taxi and take off). But then you'd get bored, and want to do stuff like knife edge, or really nice looking aerobatics, then you can learn to use the rudder. (That's where I am right now.)

RE: Rudders
 

It's like many people with FWD vehicles, if they need to use it, they don't know how, or didn't even know they had it. ( thought FWD was just something that sounded impressive ).

" Rudder " however doesn't sound at all impressive - not like FWD.

Maybe it would be useful if the ailerons failed, don't throw it away!

Wouldn't like to take off my taildragger without a rudder!

RE: Rudders
 

These a good one. New FWDs are computer controlled so they're used and you don't even need to think about it. So program in rudder mixing with your ailerons and forget about it.

RE: Rudders
 

Teamselpats

There are a lot of rc planes out there without rudders but not to many full scale planes without one .That should tell you the importance of rudders when your in the plane. As far as rc goes if you learn to use the rudder you can fly the plane in a more scale manner and do some real cool aerobatics. I would recommend you learn to use. You won't be sorry you did. The best thing is you can show off to your friends who have been flying for years how to use it.

RE: Rudders
 

I think people use rudder more than they realize on prop driven aircraft. I didn’t realize how much rudder I used on take off departure until I started using retracts in the 70s and had to take my thumb off the left stick to retract the gear. I had been automatically compensating for the P factor and didn’t realize it. Up until that time I knew that I used rudder a lot in pattern flying and on landings.

RE: Rudders
 

MikeMc
Sure takes away the fun of the challenge! isn't that what it's all about?

RE: Rudders
 

Rudder ?,what would i do without it ?.[sm=confused.gif]

RE: Rudders
 

Yep. Takes all the fun outa 4-wheelin too. I like to have fun and challenge so I use mine... rudder that is.

RE: Rudders
 

Are you sure you are from GA and not Europe???

It smells like most people use it here anyway.


As far as rudders. I didn't use it at all at first, only to take off. Then after I began experimeniting with it, I couldn't live without it. Its like a another dimension to your flight capabilities.

RE: Rudders
 

No I'm from KS originally and moved here 12 years ago. I have a friend going to the University of Kentucky. He was given a full banjo scholarship.